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Old 01-24-2007, 12:32 PM   #1
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LotR3-RotK-Seq22

Technique and ability alone do not get you to the top; it is the willpower that is the most important. This willpower you cannot buy with money or be given by others…it rises from your heart. - Junko Tabei, first woman to climb Mount Everest.


Sam recovers a bit as he lies on the side of Orodruin. He seeks out and finds Frodo, who also lies still. He looks up at the mountain and sees the senselessness of climbing further. Lie down, Sam old boy, and rest. That mountain’s too big for ya. He’s not sure what to do next, and so does what he does best - care for Frodo. He talks of the Shire to his Master, who now can remember nothing of strawberries or grass, neither the taste or touch. Frodo raspily states that nothing now is between him and the Wheel of Fire and that he can see Him (Sauron) with his waking eyes (Is He an Eye, or does He have a body?). Frodo’s tortured in both mind and body. His voice, unlike Sam’s, is more of what you’d expect after their ordeal. Not that I can fault PJ for having his actors speak when by all accounts they cannot due to lack of water etc. Sam’s makeup is great, and when he speaks he tears up (again, that moisture thing) but it only adds to the moment.

Sam, hearing his Master’s suffering, finds new strength to put an end to the pain. His words, however, are a bit unSam-like. “Then let us be rid of it…once and for all.” I’m having a hard time swallowing the lettuce part.

Anyway, Sam starts freaking out about carrying Frodo as he cannot carry the Ring, not that, to me, it would make much difference here. Sam hoists Frodo on his shoulder, not pig-a-back, and starts his climb up Mount Doom. I couldn’t tell if Sam left his bones behind or not.

By the by, what exactly are those slow-falling flaming things that drop out of Orodruin? Why do they fall slowly?

Back outside the Morannon, Aragorn’s and Sauron’s armies prepare for battle. The orcs are uncharacteristically well-ordered, and I suppose are either awaiting orders or are on a break. Aragorn gets a call from Sauron, and the Eye says, “Elessar.” Not sure what this means. Gandalf, when Aragorn turns back to look upon his friends, waves his hand. Is Gandalf casting some spell? Dunno.

Aragorn seems to be saddened when we see his face. Why? Does he now believe that Frodo failed? Does he think that his chances of having a life with Arwen (or Éowyn ) over? Regardless, he says that this one's for Frodo, and he rushes off to battle, followed by the rest of the army. Does anyone keep the orcs from also rushing from behind? And does anyone else see in Merry and Pippin’s charge Franjean and Rool as they take on Queen Bavmorda?

This is it. Either Sauron or Aragorn (the line of Elendil) ends this day.
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Old 01-25-2007, 03:07 PM   #2
Elladan and Elrohir
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It's such an iconic line from the book that I don't know that we even realize how iconic of a film line it has become: "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!" It's yet another chilling moment. Note that as Sam says this line, the score soars into the chorus of "Into the West," the credits song. This melody appears at a couple of key moments in the film (another one is Gandalf's "far green country" soliloquy).

To me, this is the point where Elijah Wood and Sean Astin transcend great acting. Maybe it's just because it's almost the end of the Quest, or because it's the movie version of my favorite story ever, or because everything -- not just the acting -- works together so beautifully to achieve this moment. But this is where Elijah and Sean take over the film, as they should - this is their moment to end all moments. We left Hobbiton with them in focus, and now here they are again in focus despite everything else.

Sauron's call to Aragorn, or whatever it is, does strike one as a bit bizarre. Of course, in the original designs of the filmmakers, Sauron was supposed to emerge at this moment (yes, in humanoid form, not as the Eye) and appear as an "angel of light", to use the biblical phrase. He would tempt Aragorn using the Annatar form that he had used to tempt Celebrimbor in the Second Age. Then, after Aragorn resisted, the two would fight.
Would have made a nice bookend to the Prologue scene, but I think I like it better the way it turned out. One thing it would have done is completed Aragorn's character. We've seen him struggle with his lineage, his weakness, his doubt, his fear, for three films. This confrontation with Sauron would decisively conclude that and finish the story arc for 'Gorn.
But, even the way it is, I think it still rounds out his character. We still have Sauron (apparently) calling out to Aragorn, tempting him in some way. When Aragorn turns back to his companions, it's another beautiful moment. And as he says, "For Frodo", with tears in his eyes, we know that he has finally beaten his demons, finally pushed his fears and doubts away. He has just heard from the Mouth that the Quest has failed, and yet he still has hope -- which of course is his name, Estel.
Awesome stuff, PJ.
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Old 01-26-2007, 06:51 AM   #3
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quick note - your quote above, Alatar, wins most Apt Quote of this group of movie sequenece by sequence threads we've been discussing. You hit the nail on the head with this one, completly eclipsing your last quote from Bill Pullman!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Essex
quick note - your quote above, Alatar, wins most Apt Quote of this group of movie sequenece by sequence threads we've been discussing. You hit the nail on the head with this one, completly eclipsing your last quote from Bill Pullman!!!!!!!!!
Thanks. It's amazing what you can find, and learn on the way there, and what persons have said.

Plus I try not to quote from the same material in consecutive threads, and so had to leave the additional Bill Pullman's ID quotes for another time.
  • "I'm a combat pilot, Will. I belong in the air."
  • "The only mistake I ever made was to appoint a sniveling little weasel like you Secretary of Defense. However, that is a mistake, I am happy to say, that I don't have to live with. Mr. Nimzicki... you're fired."

You can see the clear similarities between these quotes and those Gandalf from RotK:
  • Your fingers would remember their old strength better... if they grasped your sword.
  • Saruman! Your staff is broken!

It's clear that the screenwriters of ID were in the same literary class as our good professor.
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar
Sam...talks of the Shire to his Master, who now can remember nothing of strawberries or grass, neither the taste or touch.
This is where the heartstrings really get tugged. Our heroes are on their last legs, especially Frodo. Samwise, in accordance with his full title, shows his wisdom in trying to ease the hurts of his master with remonissing on their beloved shire. But to no avail, Frodo is now lamost under the full copntrol of the Ring.


Quote:
Sam, hearing his Master’s suffering, finds new strength to put an end to the pain.
...but I can carry you! Now the tears start to come.


Quote:
Back outside the Morannon......Aragorn gets a call from Sauron, and the Eye says, “Elessar.”
Thank god we didn't have Sauron fight Aragorn.


Quote:
Aragorn seems to be saddened when we see his face. Why?
I think he probably believes Frodo to be dead, but no mention of a second Hobbit so why can't Sam have the Ring and continue the Quest. As we know, his fight is 'for Frodo', not Sam.........


Quote:
Does anyone keep the orcs from also rushing from behind?
no, as the Men of the West are in a circle and are rushing out to meet their foes on all 'sides'.

I love Merry and Pippin running a second or so before anyone else. Very clever Mr Jackson.

We're near the Climax now, everything is coming together, we're on the edge of our seats. I remember sitting in the theatre at this point mentally sitting up wondering how they were going to end it all. I wasn't dissapointed. But more of that on the next thread......
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Old 02-02-2007, 10:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Essex
Thank god we didn't have Sauron fight Aragorn.
Much agreed. Think that the Big Bad Battle Troll in the next sequence could have been Sauron, but PJ may have CGed the BBBT over the rigging that played Sauron. Viggo could have, in green screen, fought the infamous tennis ball, and this allowed PJ and WETA to decide what Aragorn would actually fight. PJ may have never really wanted a walking talking Sauron, but intentionally left the decision 'fuzzy' so that fanboys would have something to buzz about.


Quote:
I think he probably believes Frodo to be dead, but no mention of a second Hobbit so why can't Sam have the Ring and continue the Quest. As we know, his fight is 'for Frodo', not Sam.........
I know what Aragorn means, but it's inconsistent with the "I WILL not believe," of moments ago.


Quote:
no, as the Men of the West are in a circle and are rushing out to meet their foes on all 'sides'.
It just seems that they all run forward, as a 'statement,' and so some of the slow in the back of the line had better turn around and run backwards for some protection. And isn't it a shame that Sauron lost all of his archers.


Quote:
I love Merry and Pippin running a second or so before anyone else. Very clever Mr Jackson.
It too is a nice statement ('The two silly hobbits finally mature'); on the other hand, if Merry and Pip don't start running, they will be quickly overrun and trampled.
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:04 PM   #7
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Think that the Big Bad Battle Troll in the next sequence could have been Sauron, but PJ may have CGed the BBBT over the rigging that played Sauron. Viggo could have, in green screen, fought the infamous tennis ball, and this allowed PJ and WETA to decide what Aragorn would actually fight. PJ may have never really wanted a walking talking Sauron, but intentionally left the decision 'fuzzy' so that fanboys would have something to buzz about.
Yay! I know this one! The scene was indeed originally filmed as Aragorn fighting Sauron. It actually was Sauron in the scene, as opposed to the "infamous tennis ball". Later, they decided not to have Sauron show up at Morannon, but they wanted to keep the Aragorn fight footage. So they painted Sauron out of the fight and digitally inserted a troll instead.

Of course you can't tell for sure whether they truly intended to have Sauron in the scene, but it certainly appears from the BTS documentaries that that was the case.

If you're interested in this sequence and the change from Sauron to troll, it is contained in the "From Book to Script" documentary (I think that's what it's called) on the third disc of the set. They even have some of the original footage of Viggo fighting a giant Sauron.
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