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Old 03-22-2006, 12:38 PM   #1
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LotR2-TTT-Seq07

But what about these Tree-men, these giants, as you might call them? They do say that one bigger than a tree was seen up away beyond the North Moors not long back."

Painfully we walk through Fangorn, along with Merry and Pippin on their perches on Treebeard, and I can only think of skipping to the next scene. Surely the hobbits are tired and bored not only by their recent ordeal but also by their transportationís speech. Did we have to be bored to see that the hobbits were bored? And just why did Gandalf let Merry and Pippin in the keeping of Treebeard? In the books I think that the White Wizard is aware of this, but I donít think that he and Treebeard sat down and discussed what to do with the hobbits.

The change not only adds logic dilemmas; I just donít like it.

Plus, the eldest of Ents is not CG - a big puppet - but heís not very lifelike or likeable, and so that also colors my opinion.

Treebeard places the overtired hobbits on the ground to sleep like little dolls while he quotes Tom Bombadil. Is PJ bribing us with hints of Bombadil so that we more readily accept his coming changes? Anyway, while the twain sleep, Treebeard goes off to call the other Ents together. Whatís the rush, big guy, as you all donít have it in you to act, and seemingly you really donít care much about the Shadow on your forest. Even if the rest of the cordwood wonít join you, surely youíd do something, even if alone, if faced with the withering of all woods, especially those that you shepherd.

I guess that Iím upset that PJís Treebeard is all bark.

Itís night camp somewhere in Rohan. Gandalf, ever vigilant, stands watch on Mount Doom from afar, and we learn a bit about the Eye that is Sauron. We learn that Sauron not only fears that someone will claim his Ring, but also, now that Aragorn was left his booth in Bree, the Heir of Isildur and what he may become.

ďMust keep him from claiming the Ring and especially from swimming in the Gladden River! Iíve waited long enough.Ē

Suddenly, Gandalf becomes one of those legal voices at the end of commercials and so rattles off the next part of their journey in a matter of seconds. Weíll need the extra time for more clowning with Gimli, and so Ian must hurry his lines.

And what Gandalf mean when he says, ďitís an old device of Sarumanís.Ē at time 01:01:33?

Gandalf continues on, stating that all of this is window dressing, that the real war against the enemy is on the hands of one small hobbit. The wizard is pleased to learn that Sam is along with Frodo. Gandalf, here at least, is filling Aragorn in on the state of Middle Earth and reassuring him that his decision at Parth Galen was the right one. Weíll see this dynamic switch later, though.

Isnít about time that we checked in on the Ringbearer?
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Old 03-22-2006, 12:51 PM   #2
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Jackson can't win here can he? he plays the character like he is in the books, and he's boring (let's be fair book treebeard is a little boring isn't he?) - if he played him as an 'action jackson' then there would be lots of gnashing of teeth from us devout book followers.

so as he's like he is in the book, we can't really complain, boring though this extra scene MAY be. We moan (quite rightly) at added scenes in rotk (drinking scene for example) that has nothing to do with tolkien and is an affront to us book reader's sensibilities(!!!!), but at least here we have some build up on a character and not some comic relief......

more later, on gandalf & co once I've looked at the scenes on dvd tonight.

PS - Faramir's getting close enough to touch! LOL!
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex
Jackson can't win here can he?
I think we both know the answer to that question .


Quote:
he plays the character like he is in the books, and he's boring (let's be fair book treebeard is a little boring isn't he?) - if he played him as an 'action jackson' then there would be lots of gnashing of teeth from us devout book followers.
I quote one of my ninja writing teachers who said, "one does not have to be boring to show that one's characters are bored." It was either that or, "Mr. alatar, do you think it possible for you write one composition that does not have a link to Middle Earth, hmm?"

Though I agree that Treebeard was not the most exciting character, and that you have more time in the books to take a liking to the character, I'd have to say that PJ missed it with the Ent. Maybe others feel similarly. I just couldn't connect and so care about this character.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:15 PM   #4
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Though I agree that Treebeard was not the most exciting character, and that you have more time in the books to take a liking to the character, I'd have to say that PJ missed it with the Ent. Maybe others feel similarly. I just couldn't connect and so care about this character.
Well, it's not easy to connect with a walking tree, even in a lengthy novel, and even harder in a three/four hour film where there are two other major stories going on at the same time. Treebeard only really appears in The Two Towers, and has a small cameo in ROTK. I just can't see Peter doing much more with Treebeard without damaging the movie's story in the process.


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Is PJ bribing us with hints of Bombadil so that we more readily accept his coming changes?
Well, I thought that having Bombadil's words inserted was one of the best bits of the Extended Edition. Another 'gem'. However, I suppose other people do think differently.


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Painfully we walk through Fangorn, along with Merry and Pippin on their perches on Treebeard, and I can only think of skipping to the next scene. Did we have to be bored to see that the hobbits were bored?
Seems odd that many Tolkien fans say the movies focus too much on action, fighting and violence, and then when we get quiet, dialogue-based scenes to develop the plot, they complain.

Essex got it spot on here:

Quote:
Jackson can't win here can he?

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The wizard is pleased to learn that Sam is along with Frodo. Gandalf, here at least, is filling Aragorn in on the state of Middle Earth and reassuring him that his decision at Parth Galen was the right one.
I liked this scene a lot - almost straight from the books.


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Weíll see this dynamic switch later, though.
Yes...the change in Gandalf was Peter Jackson's worst alteration to my mind.


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I guess that Iím upset that PJís Treebeard is all bark.

Last edited by Sir Kohran; 04-08-2006 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 03-22-2006, 02:20 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Sir Kohran
Seems odd that many Tolkien fans say the movies focus too much on action, fighting and violence, and then when we get quiet, dialogue-based scenes to develop the plot, they complain.
Dialogue? An Ent singing of entwives in a halting voice?

I'm not saying that it's not me, but if we 'lost' the whole Ent part of TTT, I'd be none the sadder.
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Old 03-25-2006, 04:05 PM   #6
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I like this scene cause I can sit back and relax for a little while. This sequence gives me time to recharge for the next action scene. Besides I like Treebeard in both the book and the novels.

The problem is that you guys have a short attention span. Mine got trained cause my dad always wants to watch foreign movies which are as a rule slow.
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Old 03-26-2006, 01:40 PM   #7
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the cinematography when the camera pans across the forests of new zealand is stunning as we hear treebeard's lament.

i love the way that treebeard also speaks when he 'inhales' sometimes - it gives a weird quality to his voice.

I love that we have a bit of Tom Bombadil here - a nod from jackson and co to the book readers.

I also love gandalf's face when he learns that sam has gone with frodo - a nice touch there.
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Old 03-28-2006, 04:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar
Painfully we walk through Fangorn, along with Merry and Pippin on their perches on Treebeard, and I can only think of skipping to the next scene. Surely the hobbits are tired and bored not only by their recent ordeal but also by their transportationís speech. Did we have to be bored to see that the hobbits were bored?
I wonder why we had to see that the hobbits were bored in the first place. I guess that the point is to make it clear to the audience that Merry and Pippin aren't afraid of Treebeard anymore, but is boredom really the only way to show it? When Treebeard first met the hobbits, he prepared to squeeze their guts out (although in the books it actually says that he "gently but irresistibly" lifted them up). Now that Merry and Pippin are traveling more pleasantly on Treebeard's shoulders with, apparently, quite a few of their ribs still unscathed, and they have met Gandalf, I think that speaks of comfort quite sufficiently.

In the books Treebeard was someone whom the hobbits respected even though they weren't scared of him. Yawning in a situation like this is really disrespectful. Couldn't there have been a more appropriate way to make it crystal clear that we can trust Treebeard as a friend (if Gandalf's approval isn't enough)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex
the cinematography when the camera pans across the forests of new zealand is stunning as we hear treebeard's lament.
I agree that the shots over the forests are very pretty. Showing landscapes like that is a good way to enhance the feeling of a fairy tale world. No doubt there could be moving and talking trees in a misty and beautiful forest like that! However, Treebeard's voice kind of ruins the nice views.

Treebeard's voice is described to sound like a "very deep woodwind instrument" and he could make a noise like a "discord on a great organ" - rather musical voice, one could say. I can only wonder why in the films he was made to sound like a chain smoker with a whooping cough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex
Jackson can't win here can he? he plays the character like he is in the books, and he's boring (let's be fair book treebeard is a little boring isn't he?) - if he played him as an 'action jackson' then there would be lots of gnashing of teeth from us devout book followers.

so as he's like he is in the book, we can't really complain, boring though this extra scene MAY be. We moan (quite rightly) at added scenes in rotk (drinking scene for example) that has nothing to do with tolkien and is an affront to us book reader's sensibilities(!!!!), but at least here we have some build up on a character and not some comic relief......
I, for one, didn't find Tolkien's Treebeard boring, and that's why I think that PJ's Treebeard doesn't do justice for the character. Now, there's much good in the movie Treebeard, too; I liked very much of the look of him, but once again, I can't help feeling that this is one of the situations when a character, this time Treebeard, is being made a laughingstock encrusted with cheap jokes while they could have inserted some 'quality' humour to the scene if they wanted to lighten up the atmosphere. For example, Treebeard's memory rhyme of different races "Hound is hungry, hare is fearful. . ." is just hilarious, but now the viewers are being encouraged to roll their eyes with Merry and Pippin while listening to a wheezy recitation.

Maybe I have just seen the movies so many times that if a scene's dialogue isn't very good and if there isn't much to watch (no good action or extraordinary acting), I get bored. I don't really remember what I thought when I first saw the whole EE of TTT, but I assume that I was happy for every added minute, and I got more exacting only after multiple viewings when the charm of the new scenes had worn off, and I realised that this is the version of the Two Towers we are going to get, nothing more.

Speaking of extraordinary acting, the way Sir Ian McKellen delivers his line, "Did he? Did he indeed? Good. Yes, very good", makes the whole scene between Aragorn and Gandalf worthwhile. McKellen is the Gandalf I learned to know while reading the books, and his performance here is spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alatar
And what Gandalf mean when he says, ďitís an old device of Sarumanís.Ē at time 01:01:33?
The whole line is: "The king's mind is enslaved, it's an old device of Saruman's. His hold over King Thťoden is now very strong."
Apparently Saruman has been in a habit of playing with people's minds in the past, and now he is using his skills again to keep Theoden under control. Maybe Gandalf is trying to assure that after his comeback, he is now versed in the current events of the Middle-earth, and as Saruman is using an old trick of his, Gandalf knows how to deal with it.
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Old 04-03-2006, 04:33 PM   #9
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The night monologue of Gandalf to Aragorn is absolutely gorgeous. I would pay money just to go sit and hear Ian McKellen talk in that half-whisper of his. By far the best monologger of the films.

Treebeard is definitely boring, but like Sauron really being a giant eye, this is apparently one of PJ's misconceptions from reading the book. "I actually kind of like the idea that Treebeard is boring." - The Director I agree that Book 'Beard is not boring at all.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:17 AM   #10
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just why did Gandalf let Merry and Pippin in the keeping of Treebeard? In the books I think that the White Wizard is aware of this, but I donít think that he and Treebeard sat down and discussed what to do with the hobbits.
My impression in the book is that Gandalf did not actually
meet up with Treebeard and the hobbits until he was rounding
up forces to help relieve the siege of Helm's deep.

And yes, it's about time for PJ to go off the wall by
making the white wizard Gandalf the Enforcer (and
he similarly decided (as Andy Serkis said) to change
Gollum's motivation to indicate that he never (unlike in
the book) was really tempted to, as it were, leave the
dark side.
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:39 PM   #11
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Well, in the book Gandalf sees Treebeard walking in Fangorn and later apparently spies on him, Merry and Pippin, because he hasn't met them but somehow knows that they have met. He doesn't actually meet up with them until he comes to Isengard after it has fallen to the Ents. Gandalf seems to know more than one might expect, and less than one might think.

I thought the whole "let's go see the white wizard" thing in the first scene with Treebeard was a pretty dumb way of trying to build up suspense, if for no other reason than that Treebeard would never refer to Gandalf as "the white wizard."
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:41 AM   #12
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Yes, it was a way of building up suspense, but to call it 'dumb' is going a bit far I think. I admit I didn't like it, mostly becasue it was different to the book.

PS - I think Treebeard DOES allude to spotting Gandalf in the forest later on in the book though doesn't he? Or am I just dreaming this up?
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Old 04-20-2006, 05:08 AM   #13
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PS - I think Treebeard DOES allude to spotting Gandalf in the forest later on in the book though doesn't he? Or am I just dreaming this up?
He does. Gandalf and/or Treebeard are so caught up in their personal mental machinations that they just keep on walking instead of stopping to catch up a bit.
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:11 PM   #14
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A bit late, but you know I'm going to comment on Treebeard.

Spawn said most things I wanted to say. The whole rolling-of-eyes from Merry and Pippin was disrespectful. I get the feeling that this kind of behaviour from Merry and Pippin was encouraged so that kids would laugh with them and think they are cool. Yo! Don't be soooooo slow, Grandad! I don't like it.

I never imagined Treebeard speaking as slowly as this in the books. I saw him as fairly slow and precise and prone to wandering off into his own stories when others are slightly lost; but never that whole "My...eh....home..lies....deeeeeeeeep....in... .the forest, ja?" But fair enough, I can see why others would imagine him like that.

I just get the impression that Merry and Pippin are brat kids here.
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Old 12-01-2006, 02:05 AM   #15
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Pipe there are Ents and things that look like Ents but ain't

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"My...eh....home..lies....deeeeeeeeep....in... .the forest, ja?"
Lol, …omer, that makes me think of Stevie from Malcolm in the Middle rather than the Treebeard I know from the book, who was not boring in the least. I daresay that Merry and Pippin didn't find the old Ent boring in the book, either. They seem in fact to be quite fond of him, and wouldn't dream of yawning as he spoke to them. I find PJs change (change, mind, I disagree with Essex that the adaptation was faithful to the original) to boring Treebeard is a little unfortunate, as it makes him less likeable as a character. He appeared both more jolly and wise in the book, something like a toned down Tom Bombadil. I suppose we should be thankful that he didn't end up cut, as it does further complicate the movie by adding a third thread (well, four, since we are also following the story of Rohan).

The night scene with Gandalf and Aragorn is cool. Nice to see some of the camaraderie between these two old friends.
Quote:
And just why did Gandalf let Merry and Pippin in the keeping of Treebeard?
There is no real answer for this, as often happens when PJ diverges from the source. It may have been better to leave out the matter of Treebeard taking the hobbits to the White Wizard. Just PJ trying to keep us guessing at whether the friends are safe or not. I see no real reason to do so, however.
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