Tolkien Fandom - How much is too much?

[Beregond]

*Found it hard to place this topic - I didn't mean it to be silly enough for Mirth or bookish enough for The Books.

Fandom - being in love with Tolkien's books (or any fiction/fantasy/mythology); being, in a matter of speaking, geekish - though I don't favour the expression: does your love of all things Tolkien interfere with your life in a negative way? Reading the books, researching things that have no practical relevance to everyday life, posting on forums, attending events - most of us are guilty of these and other activities. It can occupy a significant amount of one's time, energy, and thought. At what point does one realize they should be doing something better with their time? How do you balance "real life" and "Tolkien-life", or are they one and the same?

For example, do you ever catch yourself believing, even for a moment, that Gondor was a real place, that Earendil is still there up in the night sky, and that Frodo is the reason you aren't leading a life of slavery (even though you know these things are not true)? Can you tell me when the Brandywine froze over or recite the Lay of Leithien, but not know the dates of World War II or the words to your country's anthem? Do you brush off family and friends to meet an RPG deadline? Would you even consider marrying someone who thought The Lord of the Rings was rubbish, if they read it at all?

Some of my examples are extreme (and do not apply to me). I like to think of myself as a well-balanced Dúnadan but that's not for me to say. Though my life has been closely woven about my love of J.R.R. Tolkien's realistic works of fantasy, they have been a mostly positive influence in my life. Indeed could one find better fiction to adore?

I would like everyone else's opinion on the matter. Have fun.

[Lalwendë]

Good question! I often wonder when people seem to say things which suggest they think of Tolkien's work as other than fiction, because for all my own obsession, I can quite firmly separate Tolkien's world from the real one. However that's just one aspect of 'obsession'.

There are others - and I've spent vast amounts of money on my interest. On books, collectables, action figures and so on. I also fill up the very limited space in our house with more and more books that I do not need, but that I want.

I will also often spend my lunchtime at work on the Downs instead of going out of doors.

But this is what having a hobby is about. If we didn't 'waste' our time, we'd spend it solely on useful things and that would make life utterly miserable

Also, knowing 'facts' isn't so bad, and isn't isolated to 'geeks' because plenty of sports fans have reams of facts stored up in their heads, and you can quite easily be a music 'geek' too, because I'm a bit of one - always correcting people at work on which band recorded which song and so on

[Morthoron]

I like to discuss Tolkien; that does not mean I am obsessive. Well, there is that nervous tic I've had ever since viewing the Two Towers movie, and I do get annoyed when someone refers to a "green great dragon", but other than that, I am...ummm...fine. *body shakes convulsively*

Actually, I do not consider my self a geek -- no, really! I have a wide range of interests, and it just seems that my passion for Middle-earth is more conducive on an internet dialogue basis; whereas, my music fetish is more personal, with a guitar in hand in a pub with several old drunken reprobates overimbibed with Guinness and valiantly attempting to be twenty years younger than we are.

There are weirder things to be attached to. For instance, I love sports, but you won't see me wearing another man's jersey like some sports freaks. I appreciate athleticism, but that type of man love is rather odd -- to me anyway.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Beregond

does your love of all things Tolkien interfere with your life in a negative way? . . . How do you balance "real life" and "Tolkien-life", or are they one and the same?

Well, one way to answer this question, and a way of particular relevance to the Barrow Downs, where we joke that we Downers are all dead anyway, is to ask, "If I had one week left to live, what would I do? How would I spend my last seven days on earth?"

With eternity knock, knock, knockin' on your door, where would Tolkien fit in?

[Dimturiel]

What, are you actually implying that Gondor and Earendil and all that wasn't real?

Seriously now, I doubt there can be many negative aspects to passions such as ours-I call it passion, because I do not think the word obsession suits it too much, or at least that's how I feel. My life has been greatly influenced by Tolkien's works-well, the last six years of it, actually-but I cannot think of any single instance when this influence was not a good one. Well, maybe except the time when I criticized my French teacher because she did not know who Tolkien was, but really could I just stand and say nothing? Also I think you can have much more dangerous passions/obsessions. Liking LOTR seems harmless.

Also, would I consider marrying a person who thought LOTR was rubbish? Honestly, no. I would try to convince him he was wrong, but if he does not agree I'd give him up without too many regrets. But that would not mean I have gone too far with my obssession. We all choose to surround ourselves with people that share the same interests as us. Anyway, I have not met a person who has read Lotr thoroughly and still thought it was rubbish at the end. From a book of about 1000 pages you have to like something

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Interfere with my life in a negative way? No. For me, Tolkien's works have been a wonderful source of inspiration, and even guidance. I have composed symphonies and songs inspired by his works, have written novels, both original and fanfic, that grew from the love of storytelling and world-building that I saw in his works. I have been inspired in the graphic arts, and learned a great deal in the process that helped me refine my craft and technique. As a very much "lost child" and family scapegoat, I discovered positive adult role models that spoke to me in powerful ways in his books. I have never believed that any of these places or peoples are real (though I wished they might be, when I was young; living in my house felt worse than Mordor). My greatest "obsession," if it could even have been called such, was a desire in my teenage years to speak to the Professor and thank him for what he had unknowingly given me. I never worked up the nerve to write him before he died; the closest I ever came was when I was 17 and the school choir to which I belonged went on a concert tour in England and Scotland. One day, we stopped for our lunch only a few miles from where Tolkien lived, and I nearly "jumped ship" to run off to find him. Alas, I was too well-behaved, and again didn't work up the nerve. A pity. I only hope that in whatever existence he enjoys now, he knows how very grateful I am for all he has given me.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Beregond

*Found it hard to place this topic - I didn't mean it to be silly enough for Mirth or bookish enough for The Books.

For example, do you ever catch yourself believing, even for a moment, that Gondor was a real place, that Earendil is still there up in the night sky, and that Frodo is the reason you aren't leading a life of slavery (even though you know these things are not true)? Can you tell me when the Brandywine froze over or recite the Lay of Leithien, but not know the dates of World War II or the words to your country's anthem? Do you brush off family and friends to meet an RPG deadline? Would you even consider marrying someone who thought The Lord of the Rings was rubbish, if they read it at all?

While I obviously greatly admire Tolkien's works, I honestly don't believe I've ever taken that to the level of an obsession. I've never had any trouble separating fiction from reality in any interest of mine. However, every time I'm at the beach, looking across the unquiet waters, it is hard to not think of Tuor standing upon the coast of Nevrast, watching the Sun slip beneath the waters in the West...
As a rule, I can't recite Tolkien-related dates off the top of my head, but I generally have enough ME lore at the ready to well earn the honourable 'geek' moniker from non-reading friends. I am a devoted collector of useless facts anyway, so that isn't really a side effect of Tolkien interest, just my general oddity.
Fandom, I think, only becomes a problem when one is constantly shirking real responsibilities in catering to one's hobby. There is a difference between staying up an extra half hour because "I just have to reply to that thread now", or using one's lunch break to play in an rpg, and doing things like forgetting appointments and excluding one's friends and significant others who do not share one's dedication to an interest.

[The Might]

As much as I love Tolkien and his works, for me real life ALWAYS comes first - this also being the reason why I no longer participate in WW games, simply way too time consuming to do other things as well.
I do know a lot of facts, and like the whole "lore-thing" , but I don't neglect school or any other tasks I should fulfill.

After all, that is what I believe the Professor himself would have wished - that we enjoy his works, but live our lives in reality and not in a dream-world.

[Beregond]

I didn't expect so many replies so soon!

I find myself agreeing with all of you. In my first post I wasn't for my part seriously suggesting our hobby could be bad, just putting the discussion out there. I'm sure you're all well-balanced people, and it's great to hear your stories! Especially Ibrin. Of all the hobbies out there, Tolkien-lore is surely one of the best to be involved in. The protagonists in Lord of the Rings are great role models. Aragorn, in particular, is principled and oh so very cool.

For me, The Lord of the Rings is the reason I have an interest in languages, in English, in maps, in art, in medieval history and culture, in archery, and in other things that do not spring to mind. I met on Tolkien forums all but one of my best real life friends, and my first girlfriend. The other friend has been converted. Yes, I've spent much of my money on books (never a bad thing), movie action figures (probably ill-advised), a ream of miscellaneous movie merchandise (at the time, it was so exciting seeing Lord of the Rings stuff at stores everywhere!), web hosting for forums, etc. But like Lal said, it's a hobby, and most hobbies take time and money. I cannot say with any honestly that I regret the use of either.

By the way, Morthoron, I'm one of those odd sports freaks and I'm going to wear my jersey to the hockey game tonight.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Beregond

By the way, Morthoron, I'm one of those odd sports freaks and I'm going to wear my jersey to the hockey game tonight.

Well, I should have added a caveat for Canadians and hockey jerseys.

We in Detroit merely win Stanley Cups, and don't require such tawdry displays of fandom.

[Beregond]

Hehe well, as a Sens fan it's hard to argue with you these days.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Especially Ibrîniðilpathânezel (sorry, if you have a nickname I don't know it).

It's in my signature, Ibrin or Ibri.

I agree that the lore of Arda is fun to play around with, and if one can take inspiration from it and build upon it, it's very much what Tolkien would have wanted. He did say, in one of his letters as I recall, that he hoped that what he created would inspire others to build upon it, with pen and brush and song, which so many fans of his work have done. And as a spiritual man, I don't believe he would've objected to persons, especially young persons, seeing admirable role-model qualities in his characters (well, maybe if someone wanted to be like Sauron, or really wanted to be a "magic wizard" or some such ).

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

We in Detroit merely win Stanley Cups, and don't require such tawdry displays of fandom.

You and I are from the same neck of the woods??

[Ghazi]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

We in Detroit merely win Stanley Cups, and don't require such tawdry displays of fandom.

I think I am too obsessed with Middle Earth but it simply doesn't approach the mostly negative effect that my beloved Browns have on me. Even the Lions could beat those sorry clowns.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ghazi

Even the Lions could beat those sorry clowns.

We do not refer to that team, which shall not be named. Needless to say it is the team we wish would move to Cleveland in the middle of the night, along with its owner, a certain William Clay Ford.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Well, I should have added a caveat for Canadians and hockey jerseys.

We in Detroit merely win Stanley Cups, and don't require such tawdry displays of fandom.

Well, one does not win several Cups, as there is just one Stanley Cup (with a second string copy on display in the Hall of Fame), although many players and fans are often in their cups after winning.

And you've a bit to go yet before you best the string of wins of the Oilers of recent yore. Legend has it that Toronto once knew such heights, but the living memory of it is lean, lean and not even the return of the King (as in Clancy) did much to fatten those faded glories or bring a ring back to the hands of the Blue.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Well, one does not win several Cups, as there is just one Stanley Cup (with a second string copy on display in the Hall of Fame), although many players and fans are often in their cups after winning.

And you've a bit to go yet before you best the string of wins of the Oilers of recent yore. Legend has it that Toronto once knew such heights, but the living memory of it is lean, lean and not even the return of the King (as in Clancy) did much to fatten those faded glories or bring a ring back to the hands of the Blue.

Great! Isn't it always like this? Have a nice Tolkien discussion, and a hockey game breaks out.

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Beregond

For me, The Lord of the Rings is the reason I have an interest in languages, in English, in maps, in art, in medieval history and culture, in archery, and in other things that do not spring to mind.

Same here. Back when I took my archery class, I always fancied myself as an Elf, and because our archery professor was never strict with uniforms, I came to class with my hair loose and in a Harry Potter-ish knitted dark green hooded coat, the nearest thing I can get to any Elvish thing I imagined. And I can say I learned my English from JRRT and JKR--they being the two authors I have read during my elementary and high school days. In history and the social sciences, however I found parallels and similarities, I never quite forgot the line between reality and his fantasy.

Oh and I took German as my foreign language because... I thought it resembles a bit the Rohirric, the harshness my Filipino ear perceives whenever I read out loud their names. I don't quite know how wrong I am on that one, but I chose it over Spanish, the easiest European language next to English for a Filipino to learn.

I may be a closet Don Quixote lost in Tolkien's legendarium in my daydreams, but I have my rather successful attempts to repress it.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Great! Isn't it always like this? Have a nice Tolkien discussion, and a hockey game breaks out.

It's not surprising. There is so much fighting in Tolkien, see, that one in search of reprieve turns to other winter time quests featuring legendary fellowships.

[LadyBrooke]

I owe a great deal to Tolkien as well. My belief in the world of the fantastical - yes, I am one of those crazy people who actually believes in elves, faeries, ghosts, ect. - was reawakened by reading his books.

More than that however I owe my love of languages. As a High School student with two years to go, I will already have three years of French and a year of Spanish when I finish this year. In addition I was in German Club at my old school - we don't have one here or I'd still be in it. And I know ASL to a certain degree - enough to have a short conversation. In college I want to major in languages and then get a law degree. After that I want a job working with immigrants or as a college proffesor. As a partially deaf person I doubt I would ever have been inspired to work beyond English into the study of foreign languages if it hadn't of been for his languages. However now I want to do it all - especially translate old stories and such into English so that more people can be exposed to some of them.

[Formendacil]

"How much is too much?" That is a VERY loaded question to ask a philosophy student in the middle of revisiting the "Aristotelian mean." I must answer though that "just enough is enough and an excess is bad and too little is bad." Situation-appropriate, of course. On the Downs, someone who isn't a Tolkien fan is deficient, and I think it takes an absurd extreme we've not seen to be excessive... but in day to day life... well... walking around in mail and using the second person familiar might be a bit extreme.

As to myself, I am most definitely known as a Tolkien fan, but as it is merely one among many oddities about me, I don't think it's excessive. Granted, I managed to write a paper for a Romantic Period (literature) course that was 50% Tolkien... and yes, I suppose there was that one day at school where I had the most spectacular discussion about the lack of pointy Elven ears. And yes, okay... so I wrote the "thesis paper" of my undergraduate degree about the metaphysical differences between Elves and Men and started out with a direct quote from the '77 Silmarillion.

But that's not excessive, right?

[Ghazi]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

But that's not excessive, right?

Yes it is. Where do you find all of that energy and can you send me some in a bottle? Thanks.