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Old 07-27-2000, 06:08 PM   #1
The Westward Road
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Ring Olorin in the First and Second Ages?..any thoughts

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In the Simarillion, more specifically the valaquenta, there is a section called &quot;Of the Maiar.&quot;
It tells us the story of Olorin learning pity and patience..etc, but it also says, &quot;But of Olorin that tale (the QS) does not speak; for though he loved the elves, he walked among them unseen, or in form as one of them, and they did not know whence came the fair visions or the promptings of wisdom that he put in their hearts.&quot; It then goes on to describe his role as the kindler of hearts during the third age and the War of the Ring. I love this paticular passage because it shows Olorin fighting the darkness long before he took up the guise of Gandalf and the mission of the Istari. I know this might be a add on by CT, but I feel this really might be JRRT's real description of Olorin.
I think it would be fun to speculate when and where Olorin might have been giving fair visions and wisdom to the eldar of the first and second ages. Could he have been in Idrhils group fleeing Gondolin, or in any of the Battles of Bereiland. I could speculate forever.

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Old 07-27-2000, 10:37 PM   #2
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Olorin in the First and Second Ages?..any thoughts

One could imagine that maybe Olorin aided those in the Isle of balar after the weariness of the long defeats and trechery of fellow eldar or perhaps turned the heart of maglor towards the sons of Earendil.
I was curious to see if the reference in the Valaquenta was in the pre 1977 Silmarillion and looking in Morgoth's ring we find the same story in slightly different wording. It ends with&quot;Those who hearkened to him arose from despair; and in their hearts the desire to heal and renew awoke,and thoughts of fair things that had not yet beenbut might yet be made for the enrichment of Arda. Nothing he made himselfand nothing he possessed, but kindled the hearts of others and in their delight he was glad.'
HoME vol X
p147 This was writen by JRRT in the 50's.
As an aside I thinkvery little of the Silm. was 'written' by CRRT he added a section tying together the end of Hurin and Thingol but that is all I know of .Simply put he functioned chiefly as an editor choosing between his fathers many unfinished versions.

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Old 07-28-2000, 08:17 AM   #3
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Olorin in the First and Second Ages?..any thoughts

Somwhere, I think in HoME, there is a brief section on the section of the Istari by the Valar. I don't have my books with me so I can't look for it. Its a good read although rather short, and provides some insight re: Olorin and other wizards. Hmmmm, was it in Unfinished Tales? I don't think so. Maybe someone can help me out.

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Old 07-28-2000, 08:29 AM   #4
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Olorin in the First and Second Ages?..any thoughts

UT has a chapter about the Istari.

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Old 08-03-2000, 02:39 AM   #5
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/bloody.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Olorin in the First and Second Ages?..any thoughts

Actually, in my version of Sil, it doesn't say in the Valenqueta that Olorin did fight darkness, except to say that he 'kindled hearts' and that all who listened to him 'put away images of Darkness'. But surely this is just what he did after he became an Istari.

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Old 03-23-2002, 11:25 PM   #6
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When it says he kindled hearts, it is implied that the hearts were kindled to fight darkness, or prevent it.
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