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Old 10-27-2000, 11:23 PM   #1
Gwaihir the Windlord
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<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I'm curious. Please vote below, and tell me whether I'm in the minority of reading or not. Post a comment if you like...

<FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>Results (total votes = 37):<table bgcolor=#FFFFFF border=0 cellpadding=3 cellspacing=0 width="75%"> <tbody> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I have read Unfinished Tales and all of HoME&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>4&nbsp;/&nbsp;10.8%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=32 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I have read Unfinished Tales and some of HoME&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>16&nbsp;/&nbsp;43.2%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=129 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I have read Unfinished Tales but none of HoME&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>8&nbsp;/&nbsp;21.6%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=64 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr><TR BGCOLOR=#E0E0E0><TD NOWRAP> <FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>I have neither read Unfinished Tales nor HoME&nbsp</td> <td height><FONT FACE="Verdana,Arial" SIZE=2>9&nbsp;/&nbsp;24.3%&nbsp</td><td><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/bar.gif width=72 height=10 hspace=3>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td bgcolor="#000000" colspan=3 height=1></tr></tbody> </table>

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Old 10-27-2000, 11:32 PM   #2
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I own UT and all the HoME series. I really enjoyed UT, but HoME is a bit of a mixed bag. The Lays of Beleriand was excellent, and the last three volumes are full of interesting `lore`, but the rest I found to be rather uninspiring. The books which detail the conception and production of LOTR were, in my opinion, awful.

Look into the http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/library/classiccourt/77/Mirror of Desire.</a> </p>
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Old 10-27-2000, 11:45 PM   #3
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

Thanks, Taimar. You see I've been thinking about ordering HoME (I already own UT and I must say I enjoyed reading it), and any comments or votes here would be appreciated.

Usually keeping a lookout over http://pub24.ezboard.com/bmountgundabadMount Gundabad</a> and http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi The Barrowdowns</a> Middle-Earth Discussion Boards</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000022>Gwaihir the Windlord</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 10/28/00 2:09:25 am
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Old 10-28-2000, 01:13 AM   #4
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I read some of the UT but didn't finish it. I haven't even seen any of HoME.

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Old 10-28-2000, 08:37 AM   #5
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

Well if you only wish to order sections of HOME; then I'd advise: the LOTR sections and the Last 3 Volumes of the series.

Lays are also a nice addition, as is Lost Road.

Skipping on the LOTR section is unadvised, as many details are present that are not found otherwise.

Take for example: the river below Rivendell; on maps it's mistakenly known and labelled as Bruinen. Actually it's known properly as Merrill. Bruinen is the river ABOVE Rivendell.

Little facts such as this (and many others) make the HOME LOTR Volumes a must (along with the absolutely mandatory Vol. 12 for LOTR Appendix backstory and omitted details due to original compression of the Appendices for publication by Tolkien).

Not having read this is like not having read UT (or the original Appendices in LOTR as another comparison), and questioning where additional details are appearing from because they didn't appear in LOTR narrative text.
Far too much information was lost before publication.

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Old 10-28-2000, 10:05 AM   #6
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I have started UT, but put off finishing it until I've reread LotR.


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Old 10-28-2000, 01:37 PM   #7
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I've read UT and very much enjoyed it. I've read bits and pieces of various HoME books, liked some of it, could do without some of it...kind of mixed feelings. The parts I could really do without are the details about the origins of names and words. Booooring!! (Kind of like trolls, eh, BW?) <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

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Old 10-28-2000, 04:47 PM   #8
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

Hmmm... thanks, everyone. What are your feelings on the Books of Lost Tales (No. 1 &amp; 2)?

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Old 10-29-2000, 09:35 AM   #9
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

BoLT can be a tough read. Some of it is well written, some not. However, Vol. 2 contains the only telling of the fall of Gondolin. That alone makes it worthwhile. If you haven't read BoLT, you can still read the balance of HoME. One thing that is amazing is that some of the tales from the Sil. were fully in place as early as 1920. BTW, I've read UT and nearly all of HoME.

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Old 10-29-2000, 09:36 PM   #10
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

So your ssaying that I should try and get BoLT 2 but not really too een on 1?

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Old 10-30-2000, 08:00 AM   #11
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I think there is value to both, if only to gain an understanding of how the tales originated and began to develop. The stories are interesting, but the style diferent from what we are used to. The quantity of annotations also increases the difficulty of the read, but can be skipped the first time through, though some are interesting. If you are only going to get one volume, get BoLT 2, but there's value to BoLT 1 also. I never thought about just reading 2 alone. It might be tough to get into the swing without the introductory material.

BTW, in my opinion if BoLT or the early Silm. were published first, JRRT's work might have wallowed in obscurity and there might not have been any &quot;sequels&quot;.

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Old 10-31-2000, 09:34 PM   #12
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

Thanks for your help, Mithadan and everyone else. I think I'll try and order BoLT 1 and 2 for starters, now/.

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Old 11-11-2000, 05:06 PM   #13
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> UT and HoME

I have read UT but never heard of HoME, could you tell me what it stands for please so I can look it up in my Local Library please. Please forgive me for this but I am only quite young.

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Old 11-11-2000, 06:45 PM   #14
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: UT and HoME

I thought this might happen. 'HoME' stands for 'History of Middle Earth' -- those twelve books that were strung together by Chris Tolkien from his father's notes, jottings and random ideas (or not so random ideas). Try looking behind the cover of some of your Tolkien books; there may be advertisments for them there.

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Old 11-12-2000, 03:07 PM   #15
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: UT and HoME

Can I change my vote? I got Morgoth's Ring from the library last week and my old answer in no longer accurate.

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Old 11-12-2000, 03:28 PM   #16
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/vilya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: UT and HoME

No, burra... you're stuck with your original vote. And it really wouldn't be worth your effort. Your changed answered wouldn't really change the stats on this one very much anyways.

Out of 22 people only 7 had read the HoME....that's pretty good, actually. 14 out of 22 have read UT ... again, not bad. Eventually, I think we'll all be changing our votes (I'm steadily working my way through all of the HoME).

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Old 11-14-2000, 04:08 AM   #17
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I was reading a report on HoME #3: the Lays of Beleriand. In the report (at the Harper Collins website http://www.fireandwater.comwww.fireandwater.com</a>) it says that the 'undocumented' Tale of the Children of Hrin is in it. But that is found in UT. Is the one in LoB different, or what?

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Old 11-14-2000, 04:15 PM   #18
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

HoME 3 contains the stories of Turin and Beren, along with other tidbits in poetry form. Slow reading but truly remarkable. I understand that the poetry version rather than the prose outline version is what was submitted to Unwin's reader when the Sil. was rejected back in the 1920s or 1930s. This was (apparently) an error which led JRRT to believe it was not publishable when, in fact, it had not been read.

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Old 11-15-2000, 06:21 AM   #19
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I already posted that I haven't read UT, but I found the dutch translation at a newly opened bookstore(the Fnac) here in Leuven yesterday <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> , but unfortunately I'm somewhat broke now, but luckily it's my birthday November 30, and I'll ask my parents to buy it instead of the usual boring games.

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Old 11-15-2000, 11:37 AM   #20
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

Well, I've got all of them, and I like them all.
The best are in my opinion: Lost Road, Sauron Defeated(Especially the Epilogue and the Notion Club are extremly good), And the last three HoMe books.

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Old 11-15-2000, 12:08 PM   #21
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I've been reading UT and HoME since each published

My favourite and one I pick up and reread monthly (not the whole thing just various stories) is Unfinsihed Tales. It was a wonderful collection to begin the release of Tolkien's unpublished material and answered many questions that those who wander in Middle earth tend to have (the wizards, Numenor, the Palantiri...) It's hard to say one story is my favourite but the most poignant one I keep rereading is The disaster of the Gladden fields. It really is a pivotal concept: Isildur's reasons for keeping the ring and the reason it continued to exist in the history of Middle earth as it did. I found it so sad to think of his 4 sons surviving those terrible days only to have the eldest three lost in one day and due to their father's hubris. Shakespeare, or any greek tragedy could not weave a better tale. The added note about finding Saruman's discovery of Isildurs body was riviting.the stories in volume 12 were long awaited by me as they had been referred to since Carpenters publication of the letters.

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Old 11-15-2000, 09:35 PM   #22
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

Bravo, Musicman! My fave too. Welcome to the barrowdowns!
Mithadan, thanks, but is the Narn in #3 any different from the one found in UT?



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Old 11-16-2000, 11:09 AM   #23
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

The Narn is a poem in 3
To be more exactly, the narn is written in alltireative verse. The Lay of Leithan is a rhyming poem.

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Old 11-25-2000, 05:25 PM   #24
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I am w/ taimar. UT s a must if you loved the Silmarillion and the appendices.
10-12 o HoME are also essential to the lover of elven and lore and stories although be forewarned that the Myth's transformed in 11[?] is a veritable pandora's box [see Silm section on the downs under the Myth's transformed thread]. as for the Books of lost tales I loved them when they first came out especially the parts about eriol/aelfwine and the conclusion in vol. 2. the stories are usually far different in tone and detail than the Pub. Silmarillion.
3-9 I have only gone through cursorily . I am lazy when it comes to poetry so I didn't get far w/ 3.
I have found some great stuff in the lotr volumes but you really have to wade through alot of stuff that JRRT wisely rewrote.An UT style compendium of the better LOTR edits would have spared many a forest and still given us the best.But folks like Saulotus,Tar Elenion and Michael Martinez seem able to put nearly every footote to interesting use.


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 2/14/01 3:47:24 am
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Old 11-25-2000, 11:13 PM   #25
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

He Lives! Hey Lindil. Long time. We've been arguing about the origin of orcs without you.

HoME 3 is both excellent and difficult. The poetry allowed JRRT to add a great deal of descriptive detail but a lot of dialogue is lost. You need to give yourself time to read it because it can be slow going.

What to read from HoME depends on what you want to get out of it. BoLT are tough but there's stuff in there that you don't see elsewhere (the Fall of Gondolin; a description of the inside of Angband, etc.). HoME 3 is Poetry, good content but slow reading. HoME 4 and 5 are basically rewrites of the same material with some maps added in in 4 and tthe Lost Road tale in 5. The published Sil. basically comes from 4 and 5. 10-12 are excellent especially if your into seeing where the Sil. may have gone if JRRT had ever sat down and written it. Most of the &quot;canon&quot; stuff comes from there.

OK, I have a spare copy of HoME 5, The Lost Road. I'm willing to donate it to the cause. Who wants it?



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Old 11-27-2000, 03:08 PM   #26
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UT

I loved the appendixes and the silm, I've read BOLT 1 and I thought it was all right. I've got the Lays of Beleriand and another one... Creation of Middle Earth or some other Middle Earth thing, couldn't get through those :-(
But I have never read Unfinished Tales and really really want to. Is there stuff about dwarves? I love dwarves.


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Old 11-27-2000, 03:53 PM   #27
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Re: UT

If you liked Sil. and the Appendices, Unfinished Tales is a must read. It contains an expanded version of the tale of Turin and the beginning of the tale of Tuor (grievously abandoned by JRRT at Tuor's first sight of Gondolin). UT also contains the Downfall of Numenor and a number of essays and other tales about the Istari, etc. The dwarves are briefly discussed in the Tale of the Quest of Erebor.

If you really like Dwarves, get HoME 12, Peoples of Middle Earth which contains expanded verions of what appear in the appendices. It has the names of the 7 dwarven houses and much regarding dwarven history, society and economics.

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Old 02-21-2001, 01:56 PM   #28
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Re: UT

A question in relation to all of the above, which contains some very good advice for all of us wish to get beyong The Silmarillion. Are all of the volumes available in trade paperback? This would cut down considerably on acquiring a full set, for those who might wish to do so. Thank you all, for this most enlightening discussion.

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Old 02-22-2001, 11:30 AM   #29
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pb ?

No , currently I have seen UT , and HoME 1-9 in varying forms of large format and pocket size pb.
but 10-12 are still available only in hb . [which is def. the way to buy them if you anticipate intense research.
If you like the hb editions - keep an eye out in the used bookstores. I have found many JRRT books hiding in the literature sections not Fantasy/Sci-fi where you might assume. The used HB prices are often w/in a few bucks of the new PB [whichare up to 6.99 and 7.99 or so. Lost Tales 1 &amp;2 are common used on the west coast [of the u.s.]Happy hunting.

btw
If anyone knows of a Lays of Beleriand in HB [w/ dustjacket] for sale , I will pay up to $ 30 for it [or $20 plus a large format paperback of same] I have all of the Silm related HoME HB's books -but that one.



Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>
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Old 02-22-2001, 03:32 PM   #30
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Re: pb ?

I've seen it on ebay going for $30+. I'm also looking to replace my paperbacks with HB versions. I only have 1-2 and 10-12 in HB.

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Old 02-22-2001, 04:55 PM   #31
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HB

I have seen HB's new of 4-9 locally and I would be glad to ask if they ship. shallI check for you Mithadan?

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Old 02-22-2001, 06:37 PM   #32
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Re: HB

Please, Thanks Lindil.

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Old 02-23-2001, 07:42 AM   #33
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Re: pb ?

I own Vols 10, 11 and 12 in paperback. They are widely available in the Uk in this format. Here are the ISBN numbers for anyone who wishes to obtain them

Vol X - Morgoth`s Ring - ISBN 0-261-10300-8
Vol XI - The War of the Jewels - ISBN 0-261-10324-5
Vol XII- The Peoples of Middle-Earth - ISBN 0-261-10348-2

They cost 9.99, which I guess would be about $15. Try www.amazon.co.uk or www.waterstones.co.uk if you want to order them.

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Old 02-23-2001, 08:48 AM   #34
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I am reading UT right now for the first time and just finished the Tales of the Children of Hurin. I was stuck by one of the passages in which Morwen sends Turin to reside with Thingol in The Hidden Kingdom. Thingol whole-heartedly welcomes Turin and 'adopts' him as his foster son. The passage says something along the lines of 'and never again was a son of Man taken as a foster child by one of the Eldar' (not a direct quote, don't have the book in front of me). At any rate, wasn't Aragorn taken as a foster son by Elrond? This could just be one of the discrepencies in Tolkien's writings, but I just wondered if anyone else caught that and saw it the same way I did.

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Old 02-23-2001, 12:44 PM   #35
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

The stories in UT aren't exactly &quot;final&quot; versions, though some of them seem very close. That particular part might have been changed to it happening only once again, or maybe few times after.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>
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Old 02-23-2001, 11:00 PM   #36
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Re: How many people have read UT, or HoME?

I have yet to finish BoLT I, It's a bit slow. A week or so and it'll be finished...then I can read the other 11 <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="">

I can't force myself to read The History of Galadriel &amp; Celeborn. Never cared much for either of them. <img src=eek.gif ALT=":eek"> Shock horror. I should be burned alive. <img src=devil.gif ALT=":evil">

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Old 02-24-2001, 07:22 AM   #37
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Shock and horror

<img src=eek.gif ALT=":eek"> [at least re: Galadriel] I will admit the few words Celeborn speaks in Lothlorien to the co. are in enough for me to stop wondering why Galadriel went over the see w/ out him <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> . I am tempted to dredge up a couple of my 'essay' posts from threads of yore re: Galadriel.... but at this point Iwill say ,IMO she and Finrod are some of the best representatives of Elvendom I have heard tell of. see also HoME 12 'the shibboleth of feanor' .

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</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 2/24/01 8:24:06 am
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Old 02-24-2001, 03:10 PM   #38
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Re: Shock and horror

<img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Perhaps the day shall come when I bring myself to read it. Maybe. *sigh*

Btw, I have seen all 12 copies of HoME in paperback...some in stores, some at Dymocks/B&amp;N etc.

They're here. <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="">

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