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Old 06-14-2006, 08:50 AM   #1
alatar
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alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.alatar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
LotR2-TTT-Seq18

”Who am I? Why am I here?” - Vice Admiral James Bond Stockdale, 1992 USA Vice Presidential debate


We start with Théoden having a real moment. “Who am I?” he asks, and at that point, you know things are getting bad. He’s either just woke up from a bad dream, just got back into ‘this’ corporeal body, just finished reading way too many philosophy tomes or has just realized that this could be the end of the road, for him AND for his people. Gamling is in for a time, as his first answer isn’t good enough, and so he tries again.

Good thinking, there, Gamling. Tell him whatever he wants to hear and as soon as you’re out of is sight, run!

But really, Théoden cares. He’s made a decision, possibly a poor one, and will suffer for that mistake. I think that this King could accept his fate. But his people, those men, women and children who counted on him to see them through the dark night, well, they will pay too. Why, Théoden is asking, why am I so special to have this burden? Why do people trust in the House of Eorl and therefore in me? I’m only a man, too, and so am prone to all of the foibles included with that package.

Regardless, he arms for battle. No despair here like some other King that we’ll later see. The armor placed on his body by Gamling looks real. WETA did great work, making the stuff look both ornate and worn. As the black tide rises, Théoden quotes book Aragorn (who sang a song learned, I presume, when he was in the company of the Rohirrim).

We see the Helmingas, as much as it is, to demonstrate the impossible position that they’re all in. Whether we see this ‘for real’ or as Théoden thinks it (he may be recalling a recent inspection tour), I don’t know - and that a minor thing anyway.

Arming the child almost brought tears to my eyes, and that’s not that easy. I see my own son here (and daughters, but mostly my son) and think what it would be like seeing him with too-large helm placed atop his young head, or to be given an axe not made for chopping wood. Innocence is being lost, and there will be blood. Théoden’s words, the imagery and the background score are superb. I’m invested in these people, and PJ did well here to bring that out.

The Uruk army in landscape view looks to number in the billions, and there’s just too many of them. It’s like, no matter who might show up to help, there’s no way humans will see another dawn. An aside - Saruman surely is swatting this fly with a large nuclear hammer, isn’t he? But then again, he’s channeling moreMoreMORE PJ.

Lastly, Théoden asks, “How did it come to this?” I’m thinking, well, first you were like this crusty drooling guy who was possessed and so this other guy ran things into the ground to get your niece and kicked out your best Marshal nephew as PJ wouldn’t have him at Helm’s Deep so he sent him off as a pseudo-Erkenbrand and this gave Gandalf somewhere better to be and that caused a lot of plot holes and despair…err, um…let’s just say that some White Wizard hates you.

But he’s really asking why? Why here and now? Why me? He’s faced with certain extinction, the Kobayashi Maru, and that seeks to overwhelm his soul.

Back at Derndingle, it’s much later - night - and the hobbits are extremely bored. They’re not sure if the Ents have yet gotten down to business, and so Treebeard takes a moment to fill them in. Initially, when he stated that they’d just finished saying “good morning,” I thought that PJ was going to give this Treebeard a sense of humor, but…

Merry understands that his friends - or at least some people - are in trouble and that the Ents, powerful as they seem, need to enter the battle soon as they would surely turn the tide. Do Merry and Pippin know for sure that Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas are in trouble? Tolkien’s Ents, by this time at the Entmoot, would have at least added the Hobbits to ‘the list’ and have started talking about their next action. PJ has slowed down their speaking so that, I guess, discussion over going to war is much reduced.

I don’t like these Ents.

The urgency in Merry’s words only adds to what we know is coming - the Battle at Helm’s Deep.
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:50 PM   #2
Sir Kohran
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I love how this scene contrasts with the original Hornburg stuff. When you first see it and the poeple inside, everything looks very real - the crowds of villagers, the worn, sturdy walls, the grey and brown colours - it all looks very down-to-earth. Now, as nightfall (along with the Uruk Hai...) approaches, everything gets a very blue and grey colour, and the sounds echo a lot, and the movements are slower and more pronounced, almost as if it's a dream, which really fits with Theoden's eerie monologue.

I just love the song Theoden quotes (directly from the book, too). It's very sombre and quiet, with this old man contemplating how he ended up trapped in a corner, with no mighty warriors at his command, and an enemy army marching on him that he can't possibly stand up to. Also, the book tells us that 'The Horse and the Rider' are Felaróf and Eorl. Here, however, the movie leaves it as a mystery - who is the missing rider? Is it Eomer, the King's nephew, who should be here, fighting against his land's enemies, but isn't? Is it Theodred, the prince, who will not fight or ride again? Is it Gandalf, who seems to have vanished, just when he is needed most? We're not told, and I think it adds to the effectiveness.


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Arming the child almost brought tears to my eyes, and that’s not that easy.
I know...I was only twelve when I first saw this bit, and I couldn't help but think of myself in this position - being pulled from my family and forced to wield a weapon - against thousands of big, armoured Uruk Hai. The thought of it scared me greatly. The same thought still rings in my headwhen I see the kids at my local Primary School - all around the age of the kids in the film. They've never wielded wepons before, and hopefully will never have to.

There's a great anti-war feeling in the books; Tolkien always talks about the fighting, butchery and suffering of warfare very closely, and the impact of it on the soldiers is always commented on. Tolkien knew what he was talking about; he would have felt this psychological fear a lot during his time on the Western Front in WWII, before, during and after the fighting.
I think Peter Jackson nailed this fear of war perfectly. We see the looks of fear on the soldiers' faces, we see the sadness of the civilians they leave behind, we see the cold weapons they are forced to wield.


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I see my own son here (and daughters, but mostly my son) and think what it would be like seeing him with too-large helm placed atop his young head, or to be given an axe not made for chopping wood. Innocence is being lost, and there will be blood.
Cheer up, alatar; it's possible that with the arrival of the Elvish reinforcements, the pressure for numbers wasn't as great on the Rohirrim, and so at least some of the children were able to go back to their mothers in the caves.


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The Uruk army in landscape view looks to number in the billions, and there’s just too many of them. It’s like, no matter who might show up to help, there’s no way humans will see another dawn.
Yes - Peter Jackson does a brilliant job of making the battles seem hopeless - how can this army of old men and young boys possibly even fight this enormous army of steel?


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An aside - Saruman surely is swatting this fly with a large nuclear hammer, isn’t he?
Well, the Hornburg is hardly a fly - if Saruman wins, he wipes out the last heir to the throne of Gondor, the King of Rohan, one of his possible heirs (Eowyn) and also, at least several hundred soldiers and civilians, plus some of their horses. If Helm's Deep falls, so does the rest of Rohan, and in turn, Gondor, because it will lack the vital help of the Riders in the final movie, and be crushed by the combined legions of Mordor and Isengard. So Saruman's focus on crushing Helm's Deep is quite understandable. Also, at this point, he might not know that Gandalf's not there, so he would obviously want as many troops as possible on the off-chance that the Wizard's there.


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But he’s really asking why? Why here and now? Why me? He’s faced with certain extinction, the Kobayashi Maru, and that seeks to overwhelm his soul.
Because up until now, Theoden's always had something to put his hope in for the future. When he and his people left Edoras, he thought that as long as he got to Helm's Deep, things would all be okay. And yet - now that he's here, now what? He's got nowhere else to run to; he's surrounded on all sides with no way out. That's why Theoden's retreat-instead-of-fighting was the bad idea that Gandalf, Aragorn and Gimli named it.


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Do Merry and Pippin know for sure that Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas are in trouble?
Well, Gandalf might have filled them in on what was going to happen when he met them in Fangorn.


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The urgency in Merry’s words only adds to what we know is coming - the Battle at Helm’s Deep.
Oh yes...the great battle of our...er, no, that bit comes later . But it's still a neat fight all the same. After all, it got fourth place in the top ten battles list in the Empire magazine.
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