WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[Rikae]

Well, well. I must say, it's difficult not to suspect Nogrod for not only failing to advocate lynching the quiet ones, but actually being rather quiet himself. I take it this is the new style?
I suppose somebody should provide the usual quiet/loud discussion, then. I suggest that we get rid of anyone who isn't pulling his or her weight in this villiage early on, rather than leave them to the last as unknown quantities when we can't afford to lose them.
No, Rikae, actually, it's better to keep them around, because it's better to have even a few short posts to go on than none at all.
Yes, but you don't understand. We can force them out of the shadows by threatening them with lynching!
Well, not so much now, can we, Rikae?

Yes, I know the above is pointless, but no more so than attempts to figure out TP's twists. Honestly, it could be anything at all, and throwing random ideas out isn't going to accomplish anything.

Instead, I suggest tossing around some accusations. For instance: I dislike the way Legate brings up the topic of the pre-game discussions while telling others - twice - not to discuss it. It shows a certain overcautiousness, if you know what I mean.

[Macalaure]

Well, well... Day One... not much to say yet. At the moment, only Noggie rubs me slightly the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Nog

Those twists better help us as otherwise it looks grim indeed.

I daresay that some will and some won't. We'll just have to wait and see. There's little point in discussing them now. I know we yet don't have a lot else to talk about, but still.

Anyway, why so pessimistic so early on, Nogrod?

Originally Posted by Nog

I'd say no. That was quite the normal procedure earlier if my memory serves me right. A kind of old-school warm up. But if you have reasons to believe it to be otherwise I'm listening.

You raise my eyebrow there. I don't mean to become too formulaic in my approach to looking for wolves, but this really fits the "passively encouraging the village to discuss nonsense while appearing to be no part of that discussion"-cliché.

(edit: crossed with Rikae)

[mormegil]

I agree with what Farael said about the seer not being the cursed because it was stated that the seer, if he/she dreamt of the cursed they would appear innocent. It definately implies that the seer wouldn't be it but I wouldn't put it past the phantom to do that either. My guess is that the seer is not the cursed but either way there isn't much we can do about it.

Nogrod, I can't figure out why you brought this up though. It seems rather odd. Right now, Farael seems the most, in your face, vocal person which always makes me wonder, but to be fair it seems fairly standard for him and I do tend to be a bit suspicious of him but if I were to pick a suspect now it would be him. Granted, there are MANY we haven't heard from yet so my suspicion is weak at best, but it's helpful to get some suspicion out on the table.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I agree with what Farael said about the seer not being the cursed because it was stated that the seer, if he/she dreamt of the cursed they would appear innocent. It definately implies that the seer wouldn't be it but I wouldn't put it past the phantom to do that either. My guess is that the seer is not the cursed but either way there isn't much we can do about it.

Nogrod, I can't figure out why you brought this up though.

Actually, I brought it up– at least I think I did.

Originally Posted by mormegil

Farael seems the most, in your face, vocal person which always makes me wonder, but to be fair it seems fairly standard for him and I do tend to be a bit suspicious of him but if I were to pick a suspect now it would be him.

But why? I can't see what he's said that's suspicious.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ah, tp and his twists. How much point is there in trying to find them out at this point in the game, though? It kind of makes you wonder.

Another thing that makes me wonder is Farael and the nonsense suspicion list that was posted at the beginning. Could it be a wolf, hiding behind a veneer of helpfulness?

Oh dear, I think I'm experiencing deja vu. With the accents. Or without, whichever catches your fancy.

Hmm, Nerwen seems to be anxious to turn the subject onto something harmless. Basket Weaving? The weather? How is this going to help us catch wolves and turn their pelts into fur coats? I've got my eye on you, Nerwen...

so said the Illusionist. I never liked him, thought he was creepy.

Nogrod's first post was, strangely, shorter than mine. What does this say about him?

-Nogrod is hiding "off the radar". He's obviously a wolf.
-Nogrod is too busy to pay much attention to this game. A perfect cover for a wolf.
-Nogrod is letting us come to our own conclusions, without exerting too much influence. Waiting for the right moment to make an opportune push... much like a wolf might do.

I think we have our answer here, don't you?

The herbs have made me loopy, the herbs have made me loopy....

[The Might]

I find it akward that you say this about Nerwen Shastanis, as TP said:

Pick an appropriate occupation please. You can be in character during the game if you choose. The primary purpose of your occupations will be to be provide fodder for the narrative.

I don't really see what's wrong with a bit of IC talk, and I rather see that as a joke...
Anyway, I doubt that the talk before ahd anything to do with the game itself, just as I doubt that TP would aks players to post certain things...
Although I must admit, these twists do make me wonder what he is planning really...too early to tell I guess.
I personally find it good that the first day will be a bit longer, that way there might be more discussiong and it would be easier to find out who the Wolves are.

Anyway, it's quite late now and I must take care of my sheep - yes, I am the shepherd - so as I make my way west where I saw a new star shine on the sky I wish all you a Merry Christmas!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by me in #30

I thought to have a specific goal in this game and that is not being the one topping the who posted tally for once - with of course wishing to stay alive until the end that is. But rest assured I will be quiet only compared to my own standards.

~*~

I'd agree with Rikae about Legate being somewhat overcautious - but then again he tends to be cautious everytime he plays. He's a valuable player for the village and I would leave him be on this Day unless something more drastic comes to the fore from his part. There's no sense in losing our best hands with Day1 lottery.

I'm not pessimistic Mac. I'm always the optimist. It just happens that this village has been set up quite unfavourably for us if we only take in the facts we know now and thence I was just thinking that the phantom's "twists" might / should go our way. But I believe we can win. Why else try?

I'd like to know what you would have said in the second post of the whole game that would have had "point in discussing" it with your standards?

Talking about easy and clicheéd wolf-tactics... I'd say Mac's post fits the description to the finest detail. I'm not going into them yet as it's late now (RL). But I'll be back.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Ah, tp and his twists. How much point is there in trying to find them out at this point in the game, though? It kind of makes you wonder.

I'd like to have seen your substantive posting in the beginning of the game.

I mean. Yes it's hard to come up with something to say this early but I'm beginning to feel some people are now riding the waves so to speak.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Not a lot to do at the moment other than to throw around baseless suspicion, though, right?

Such as EggNogrod and Magicalaure seemingly suspcious of each other so very early....

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod on Legate

He's a valuable player for the village and I would leave him be on this Day unless something more drastic comes to the fore from his part. There's no sense in losing our best hands with Day1 lottery.

I'll say. So who's most expendable, then? Clearly not Nogrod.
I wouldn't advocate lynching somebody with nothing more than a single instance of overcautiousness, either. But it's still worth taking note of, I say, for future reference. I've had this same conversation with you before, though, Nogrod, and I fear we'll never agree. I sometimes think your approach to the game is a bit too biased - strong players are, after all, as likely if not more likely to be wolves than the rest are.
In the spirit of noting things as they come up - Shasta, what exactly are you doing? I assume the nonsensical accusations towards Nogrod (implying that because being busy is "perfect cover", he is likely to be a wolf), followed by the comment on "baseless accusations", were meant to be a joke. However, the whole business looks sort of - jumpy, I'd say. Shasta looks overeager to participate and rather nervous. I've seen him as a wolf before (in the game I modded), and he had a similar "mood" then.

[Nerwen]

Does everyone remember this?

Originally Posted by the phantom

The Werewolves can pm amongst themselves at ALL times, night and day, to discuss strategy.

And there are four wolves. The combination makes it very easy for them to start up a lynching party. Be on your guard and make sure you re-read all posts, rather than relying on X saying Y is suspicious.

(I tried to tell people this last game, but did they listen to me? In fact one of the wolves voted to lynch me because I’d said it!)

Now what is bugging me right now is the way people are falling in with Macalaure's and Mormegil's bad feelings about Nogrod and Farael– which appear to me to be based on just about nothing. (And yes, I just went back and re-read the posts.)

And Shasta... Your playing style has certainly changed. Are you serious about the things you said in your first post?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now what is bugging me right now is the way people are falling in with Macalaure's and Mormegil's bad feelings about Nogrod and Farael– which appear to me to be based on just about nothing. (And yes, I just went back and re-read the posts.)

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about here Nerwen. You seem rather bothered that I voiced some suspicion over Farael and yet what are we supposed to do? How is this?

I'm suspicious of nobody and everybody must be innocent?

I stated that it was a stretch but I might as well state the one minor suspicion I had.

On the other hand, Rikae, in her two posts, seems rather overly eager and antsy to throw suspicion all over, much like a wolf would do.

Honestly these are weak suspicions but right now Rikae is the top then Nerwen and Farael rounding off 2 and 3 respectively.

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Meanwhile I'm off to hew down a few birches as that's the trade I know...

I completely mis-read this sentence and nearly choked on the water I was drinking. haha.

Awwhh.. but the discussion on how many wolves there were, was always entertaining time-wasting.

I agree Nerwen; with the wolves being able to communicate at all times; it shall be easier for them to form a bandwagon/lynching party.

[Nerwen]

Calm down. What are you so jumpy about? I'm not accusing you. I'm just asking people to consider how incredibly easy the set-up makes it for the wolves to orchestrate a lynch. It's really worrying me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, I know the above is pointless, but no more so than attempts to figure out TP's twists. Honestly, it could be anything at all, and throwing random ideas out isn't going to accomplish anything.

I don't know about that– I think it might be worth discussing possibilities.

[Nerwen]

Calm down. What are you so jumpy about? I'm not accusing you. I'm just asking people to consider how incredibly easy the set-up makes it for the wolves to orchestrate a lynch. It's really worrying me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, I know the above is pointless, but no more so than attempts to figure out TP's twists. Honestly, it could be anything at all, and throwing random ideas out isn't going to accomplish anything.

I don't know about that– I think it might be worth discussing possibilities.

EDIT: X'd with Isbellkya. (The "you" I'm adressing is Mormegil.)
EDIT #2: And somehow I just double posted. Sorry.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I agree Nerwen; with the wolves being able to communicate at all times; it shall be easier for them to form a bandwagon/lynching party.

Well, hey, just the numbers will do that. We had four wolves last game and they led the village around by its collective nose. (Uh... so to speak...) The fact they they can communicate during the Day makes it twice as bad.

Of course they might also decide they can afford to start accusing each other, even this early in the game.

Either way, we need to be on the lookout for accusations without substance.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, hey, just the numbers will do that. We had four wolves last game and they led the village around by its collective nose. (Uh... so to speak...) The fact they they can communicate during the Day makes it twice as bad.

Of course they might also decide they can afford to start accusing each other, even this early in the game.

Either way, we need to be on the lookout for accusations without substance.

The wolves being able to discuss isn't necessarily bad for us. I've seen it before where they discuss strategy mid-day and you see one change rapidly thus exposing themselves. So I would watch for that behavior too.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Does everyone remember this?



And there are four wolves. The combination makes it very easy for them to start up a lynching party. Be on your guard and make sure you re-read all posts, rather than relying on X saying Y is suspicious.

(I tried to tell people this last game, but did they listen to me? In fact one of the wolves voted to lynch me because I’d said it!)

Now what is bugging me right now is the way people are falling in with Macalaure's and Mormegil's bad feelings about Nogrod and Farael– which appear to me to be based on just about nothing. (And yes, I just went back and re-read the posts.)

And Shasta... Your playing style has certainly changed. Are you serious about the things you said in your first post?

Not especially, but I think they deserve a bit of a look-see. Playing style changes usually indicate something or other. (Hah, look at me go...)

I had a lot of requests last game to become more active, so I'm trying.

Thanks for posting that thing about Wolves being able to post during the day, Nerwen (was it Nerwen? I believe so), because I never even saw it. (Does this mean I'm a wolf thanking Nerwen for mentioning something that can help me out? No, that's me thanking Nerwen for showing me something I hadn't read in the rules. Silly people.)

I had a point with this, I did, where was I going with it... Ah yes.

Rikae! Rikaerikaerikae. You seem awfully eager to turn all eyes towards Magicalaure and Mirrormegil.

[Nerwen]

Good idea... though I don't know how useful it's going to be toDay, when we're going to have people disappearing to go to Christmas parties and such.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta.

[Valier]

oh the drama!! I am short on time right now, and I hate to throw out any accusations yet. I am forming some ideas on people as the day goes on. Thankfully this is going to be a longer day, giving us all more to work with. I will be back after work tomorrow, hopefully there will be more talk, (but let's hope, not like 3 pages to read when I get home.)

[Farael]

How odd (or is it "refreshing" the word I'm looking for?) I'm away from the computer for a sizable portion of the evening and I find that the number of posts is still manageable. That's just wonderful methinks!

*ahem*

There's little to add as most points have been covered. A few thoughts

Rikae is being agressive, which is her usual M.O. She also says this

Shasta looks overeager to participate and rather nervous. I've seen him as a wolf before (in the game I modded), and he had a similar "mood" then.

It should be worth mentioning she said something similar about Macalure last time around and guess what? he WAS a wolf.

Still, I wouldn't usually pay much attention to comments like those (after all, my playing style may vary from game to game as the mood strikes me, and depending on how busy I am in Real Life) if it wasn't because Shasta HAS been looking rather odd

His comments about Nogrod better be a joke (as Noggie already said he would be toning down his participation level)

And then we have this

Playing style changes usually indicate something or other. (Hah, look at me go...)

Really now? playstyle changes indicate something well, that's helpful... if it wasn't because you could just PM it to your fellow wolves (assuming you were one) I'd think this is a wolves' attempt at alerting the other wolves of a possible gifted.

I had a lot of requests last game to become more active, so I'm trying

Well, perhaps you have been joking around and I for once agree with that kind of play-style, as I strive hard to remember (myself and remind others) that this is just a game.

However, if you are seriously trying to help I'd recommend you try to express your theories in a way that they are likely at least to be considered. Playing too cautiously may not get you lynched, but it won't get you support either. And that goes for the rest of the village as well!!


On a random note, where is SPM? I've been waiting all day to start a friendly match of non-sensical accusations

Edit: Fixing punctuation (forgot a question mark after SPM)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Farael, any attempt I make at raising my activity level is GOING to look "rather odd", considering how active I've been in the past.

I will say, since some people seem to not get my sense of humor (Actually, I get that a lot. o_o) that my comments on EggNogrod were meant in the spirit of jest. Ho hum.

[Boromir88]

Wow, Day 1 is lasting 36 hours, that's good...for some reason my math is really bad and I thought it was a 12 hour day so I rushed up to make the deadline...hmm and apparently I would have missed it if it was a 12 hour day. Anyway, 36 hours is nice so I'm going to go take a look at everything...say my bit and head off to work. Who works Christmas eve? (this man does).

[Nerwen]

Farael, I'm not all that happy about Shasta myself.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Not especially, but I think they deserve a bit of a look-see. Playing style changes usually indicate something or other. (Hah, look at me go...)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Thanks for posting that thing about Wolves being able to post during the day, Nerwen (was it Nerwen? I believe so), because I never even saw it. (Does this mean I'm a wolf thanking Nerwen for mentioning something that can help me out? No, that's me thanking Nerwen for showing me something I hadn't read in the rules. Silly people.)

A possible double-bluff there, I think. Did Shaswolf just show his teeth? (While at the same time making sure that we know he can't be a wolf, because a wolf would have known about the pm situation– right?)

Against that– well, judging from what I know of Shasta's playing-style, that would be an awfully bold move from him. Unless he's very different as a wolf than as an ordo. Also, he's reminding me of Sally, who had that same way of toying with the idea of being a wolf last game, got lynched for it– and was innocent.

[Kath]

Ah after that comment about someone being the shepherd I feel that we should all have chosen Christmassy occupations! Oh well, on to the game in hand.

Rikae mentioned Legate's overcautiousness and thought it odd but I actually think it's completely normal. His posts are generally long because he argues himself in circles within them trying not to come to a conclusion whilst coming to a conclusion. He's a bit like Lommy really, flip-floppy.

Shasta's change in style. Well it is difficult to force yourself to be louder when you're so used to playing quietly and going for attention rather than substance could well be one way of doing that. Still, it is only Day 1, if he pops up tomorrow still doing this I might be more concerned but hopefully he'll be getting the hang of it. I can talk though, two posts a Day is my comfortable limit but tp said he wanted more committed players so I've got to try and be louder too Shasta!

Farael actually seems rather normal to me. Argumentative but generally helpful, as with the pre-game discussion, er, discussion.

Noggie said he was going to be quieter? Please keep reminding me of this, I will forget and suspect him on the basis of that otherwise.

Nerwen, well I know she's naturally loud but she seems unnaturally jumpy at the moment. When she screamed at whoever it was to come back because they'd made a comment about the Seer possibly being the cursed, which they actually hadn't. I know that she hasn't played with a cursed before (well I say I know, I'm pretty sure) but the wording in tp's early posts seemed pretty clear. Could have been a sudden 'what the-' reaction but it seems over the top.

That's it from me for now. Christmas Eve duties call (so early!). Back later.

[Boromir88]

There's little to add as most points have been covered.

Oh, master Farael, what do you mean there is little to add? I see bunches to add and the day is young, we are just beginning.

For instance, I see that Shasta is a wolf, Nerwen is innocent. Nogrod is posting exactly the same as he always does whether wolf or innocent. I want Rikae whacked so Azaelia can become the wise-woman and I am moved up to assistant to the wise-woman. See, I just added a bunch and that was whatever first popped into my head.

Wow, is this village stacked, or what? If I was a wolf I would be as scared as hell.

Those twists better help us as otherwise it looks grim indeed.~Nogrod

By "us" do you mean the innocent or the wolves? Because, really you could say "us" to seem as if you are creating a good "we're in this together" vibe, but really by using "us" you mean your wolf pals. A big problem in a village seems to be that we aren't good at communicating and people are constantly interpretting something someone said wrong. In order to avoid this, I say we all need to become more clear, to clearly get across our points. That way no one is getting confused by something someone else said.

Nogrod, if you're an optimist I am Batman, I mean really...come on are you being serious? And who is to say the twists don't help "us" (by "us" I mean the villagers)...Do you really think phantom would create such a lopsided game that would cause the village to be slaughtered in a matter of 4-5 days? Well, maybe if he was in that kind of mood, but this village isn't as "doomed" as you are thinking it is. Even if it was 4 wolves and no gifteds, the wolves would be facing the collective brain power of a baker's dozen group of experienced werewolf hunters. Add on top of that your gifteds and now some twists to the game? And you got yourself one promising game.

strong players are, after all, as likely if not more likely to be wolves than the rest are.~Rikae

I think Nogrod operates under the belief that if we get rid of all the quiet/I'm not going to give much away people, than all the "loudmouth" wolves would eventually be caught and lynched. I take pride in being a loudmouth, but dang is it hard as heck to survive as a wolf. The only time I did survive as a wolf, was one with phantom, and he pretty much did all the evil wolvish stuff, wolves do, and I sat back and ate some popcorn. It's far easier for wolves to escape further down the road if they really quiet...as they escape talk for a while and you are left with the loudmouths killing eachother off, until one day we all realize...hey I didn't even know unnamed quiet person was in this village? Crap we better do something about that.

So, Nogrod's line of thought is, to lynch all the "quieter" type early, and we'll probably get one or two that is a wolf and eventually the loudmouth wolves will be caught, because they talk themselves into trouble. One strategy, that I've considered many times adopting, but I rather think sometimes "quiet" is mistaken as "unhelpful," which isn't the case at all.

I'm pretty sure I crossed with a couple people

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hullo, I saved some time to pop in, though I can see the discussion is running well enough. A few comments...

Rikae is quite, how would I say that politely, aggressive in the way I don't like. Which, of course, is absolutely normal for her, so I don't see anything suspicious about her.

I can't see what everyone had with Nogrod's posts, he posted almost nothing and this nothing did not look suspicious. So apart from the fact that he did not yet start his floodposting, I don't see anything strange and mainly, I would wait to see more from him to form any opinions about him. I don't like morm somewhat, his reaction to Nerwen and then quick switches from his first post to suspecting Rikae in the second makes me think of wolf PM-discussion meanwhile or something (like "Let's now focus on Rikae for a moment." "Roger, wolftower.").

Nerwen seems quite reasonable. Her posts seem trying to be helpful and I don't see anything unusual about her.

And Shasta, well, he is obviously crazy. Obviously trying to be active is taking its toll. But his quite careless accusations make me feel uneasy. I mean, the way he does it looks like not taking care of other things at all. He is probably the one whom I dislike the most this far.

Otherwise, Mr. Farael seems quite okay, even though mad, and Kath looks helpful. Other people either have posted too little or I don't have anything to say about them yet.

So, that would be it. Leaving, who knows how it will go, maybe I will come back maybe not, but if nothing, then before the DL.

EDIT: x-ed with Boro. Hmm, reasonable, though there is something I just don't... whatever. We'll see what the future brings. Time to go now.

[Nogrod]

It's nice to see one's own thoughts explained by helpful fellow-villagers... (that said clearly enough, Boro?)

But yes, Boro is about right with his last point about my preferences with lynchings. Loud people leave a lot of tracks and trying to pin down a wolf by the tracks they leave is much more fun and interesting than blindly quessing on someone who either doesn't post or only throws in oneliners trying to go with the flow.

Well, tp promised to deal blows to those who don't contribute to the game so we can possibly forget those who do not post at all at least for a while. If phantom keeps his word it would seem that no wolf can get through this game by just hiding in the shadows.

But that also means that every innocent must come forwards and speak as every innocent we lose because of modfire is just waste. Staying quiet innocents only help the wolves.

EDIT: X'd with Legate (nice sig!)

[Boromir88]

Just some little observations than I am off to work...

(that said clearly enough, Boro?) ~Nogrod

crystal

Kath is not striking me as the soothing, fresh-of-breath-air Kath type...

Nerwen, well I know she's naturally loud but she seems unnaturally jumpy at the moment. When she screamed at whoever it was to come back because they'd made a comment about the Seer possibly being the cursed, which they actually hadn't. I know that she hasn't played with a cursed before (well I say I know, I'm pretty sure) but the wording in tp's early posts seemed pretty clear. Could have been a sudden 'what the-' reaction but it seems over the top.

It's one thing to be flip-floppy like Lommy and go back and forth...it took me a while to get used to the typical Lommyish style as it always just look so dang suspicious. But really Kath you accuse Nerwen, then defend her in the same paragraph....hmmm...Nerwen's jumpiness isn't as odd as the "person = suspicious because of the cursed villager comment, but said person hasn't been in a village with a cursed, so said person may be confused." It's not even flip-flopping it's an "I'm suspicious, but oh you may be confused" stance...far worse than flip-flopping

Morm's throwing me off a bit as he's not his bloodthirsty self...hmmm...he's usually calling for lots of death, but now I'm seeing a conservative morm that is admitting he's throwing out 'weak' suspicions.

++Kath

[Farael]

The first conspiracy theory of the day!

Ok, here's a case of "he should have known better" for my first conspiracy theory (second actually, if we take Shasta into account)

Originally Posted by Boromir88

For instance, I see that Shasta is a wolf, Nerwen is innocent. Nogrod is posting exactly the same as he always does whether wolf or innocent. I want Rikae whacked so Azaelia can become the wise-woman and I am moved up to assistant to the wise-woman. See, I just added a bunch and that was whatever first popped into my head.

Now, that seems harmless enough, just a little Day 1 banter... but his "seeing" that Shasta is a wolf just jumped out at me

Farael, have you gone daft? Boro might very well be the Seer and you are flushing him out!

Now, let me explain here why I'm doing this and perhaps taking a bit of a chance. While it's true that it might be a "seer-hint" I am concerned on two accounts. First of all, Boro should simply know better. If he trully is the Seer he'd be careful not to say such thing on day one, as a wolf picking up on it would mean near-certain death.

Second, of all people he could've "Dreamed" of as a seer, isn't it awfully convenient that he dreamed of one of the main suspects so far this Day? And found him a wolf? I'm no mathematician, but the odds are stacked against all these "chance" happenings.

Originally Posted by Boro

By "us" do you mean the innocent or the wolves? Because, really you could say "us" to seem as if you are creating a good "we're in this together" vibe, but really by using "us" you mean your wolf pals. A big problem in a village seems to be that we aren't good at communicating and people are constantly interpretting something someone said wrong. In order to avoid this, I say we all need to become more clear, to clearly get across our points. That way no one is getting confused by something someone else said.

Now. I'm pretty sure this is all jest and I'm fine with that on principle, but he goes on attacking Nogrod with things that are not really explained as suspicions

Originally Posted by Boro

Nogrod, if you're an optimist I am Batman, I mean really...come on are you being serious? And who is to say the twists don't help "us" (by "us" I mean the villagers)...Do you really think phantom would create such a lopsided game that would cause the village to be slaughtered in a matter of 4-5 days? Well, maybe if he was in that kind of mood, but this village isn't as "doomed" as you are thinking it is. Even if it was 4 wolves and no gifteds, the wolves would be facing the collective brain power of a baker's dozen group of experienced werewolf hunters. Add on top of that your gifteds and now some twists to the game? And you got yourself one promising game.

As a matter of fact I agree with his point, no mod would want to create an unbalanced village on purpose, so we have to hope for the best (and prepare for the worst). My problem here is that he writes this more as an attack on Nogrod than an attempt at calming the waters for all of us villagers.

I think Nogrod operates under the belief that if we get rid of all the quiet/I'm not going to give much away people, than all the "loudmouth" wolves would eventually be caught and lynched. I take pride in being a loudmouth, but dang is it hard as heck to survive as a wolf. The only time I did survive as a wolf, was one with phantom, and he pretty much did all the evil wolvish stuff, wolves do, and I sat back and ate some popcorn. It's far easier for wolves to escape further down the road if they really quiet...as they escape talk for a while and you are left with the loudmouths killing eachother off, until one day we all realize...hey I didn't even know unnamed quiet person was in this village? Crap we better do something about that.

So, Nogrod's line of thought is, to lynch all the "quieter" type early, and we'll probably get one or two that is a wolf and eventually the loudmouth wolves will be caught, because they talk themselves into trouble. One strategy, that I've considered many times adopting, but I rather think sometimes "quiet" is mistaken as "unhelpful," which isn't the case at all.

I'm pretty sure I crossed with a couple people

Sorry for the large chunk of text, I couldn't find a way to divide it into more manageable parts.

Basically Boromir goes and explains Nogrod's behaviour/theory. So after attacking Nogrod on grounds that are not based on suspicions but rather pessimism and the use of the word "us", Boromir tries to find some "common ground" with Nogrod.

Finally, and another big problem here, is that Boromir is in favour of lynching people based on quantity rather than quality of posting.

Actually, he is not even "in favour" of it completely, as he says that he "considered adopting" but it can be misinterpreted as "let's lynch the unhelpful" which is against the spirit of this theory.

So, Master Boromir if I was to post every 15 minutes with a nonsensical string of random words, would I be lower down your suspicions list than if I posted twice a (game) day with very well thought-out comprehensive posts?

Maybe I understood it all wrong, but in summary

• Boromir tosses out a lame seer hint that would not fool a WW newbie. Curiously enough, "claiming" to have "seen" that the top suspect thus far is a wolf. Yes, it was part of a "jest" post, but that is what makes it look like a bad seer-hint to me
• Boromir attacks Nogrod on grounds of the word "us" and his pessimism
• Boromir then agrees with Nogrod on grounds of his "lynch quiet" approach
• Boromir does not even wholy agrees that Nogrod's theory is possible, as it can be "misunderstood
• this "misunderstanding" I must be guilty of, as I think Nogrod's theory would make no sense otherwise
  
  
  
  
  

So say what you will, but Boromir looks rather fishy right now.

[Farael]

Cross-posted with Boromir himself

I won't quote his post as it's right above mine (or should be anyway) so basically, let's put it this way

Could anyone tell me why he's voting for Kath?

Yes, he expresses some suspicion but... he even mentions Morm right before voting for someone else.

I know, we have retractable votes but come on... Plus, I still don't understand what he means on his accusation of Kath (but being it 5 20 AM at this end of the planet, that may just be 'cos I'm tired)

[Nogrod]

Alright then. Time to try and say something.

Not posted this far: Aganzir, Azaelia, Eomer, Spm. The Day is long and there's all the Christmas stuff around. I'm not worried as yet but I would hope them to come forwards at some point as losing them - or any one of them - as innocents would be a severe blow indeed.

Now Isabellkaya and The Might have posted only once and there has been basically nothing in there. Valier has posted twice with as little substance. If we would have to vote now I'd prefer choosing one of them. But as said there's plenty of time still so I'm ready and willing to wait for them to post more and actually say something.

Of the rest I'd say the following. (I know it's early to make lists but as I'm going to be away for a considerable time pretty soon I think I need to come forwards with my thoughts now even if they are based only on the few posts made this far.)

Suspicious:
Macalaure
Shasta

Some reasons to suspect / some reasons to trust:
Nerwen
Boro
Kath
Farael

Leaning towards innocence:
Legate
Rikae
morm

I'll try to elaborate these in a short time.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hello all. I thought I'd come in among you for a while to see what's what, measure your statistics, and such. Digging is hard work and it might have been useful to see if anyone needed a larger grave. I see it is not especially so: you all appear to be malnourished wraiths as it is. But seeing as that none of you have any family here, I can't imagine anyone being bothered if I just threw you all into the same big pit.

As for these wolves, I don't see why they would have to do anything in this village. There's far too many loudmouths out their to tie themselves in knots and lynch themselves for the sake of their own voices and arguments. It's a short point but I think it's worth saying, especially on the first day when, by rights, there's no information and just the vain opinions of theorists. Bah! String them up for spouting gibberish, not for lycanthropy.

And keep your animals out of my graveyard. It's a right nuisance.

*grumbles*

[Nogrod]

Mac and Shasta then.

Mac's bogus post on me is the only one he's made. And it looks pretty wolvish to me. Add to it Shasta's follow-up and later trying to withdraw from it. It wouldn't be impossible they both are wolves who tried to put the ball rolling.

Originally Posted by Mac on me

rubs me slightly the wrong way

There's little point in discussing them now. I know we yet don't have a lot else to talk about, but still.

You raise my eyebrow there.

this really fits the "passively encouraging the village to discuss nonsense while appearing to be no part of that discussion"-cliché

When a player says that someone "rubs them the wrong way" or that s/he "doesn't sit right" with her/him - or that they "raise the eyebrow" - but will not bring forwards anything more solid I'm smelling a rat. Why? Because everyone has hunches and feelings but a villager seldomly tries to build up general distrust just based on a hunch with nothing to support it. An innocent villager normally stands up for her/his case when s/he has something. With the wolves it's different as they have no actual case or any real suspicion as they are trying to get an innocent to the gallows.

They also sneak their attitudes in. Mac agrees there was little else to talk at the beginning... and then he goes adding: "but still". "But still" what? Someone with good intentions wouldn’t try to cast a shadow on someone in that way.

They also love to stick with anything that can be misrepresented. I was not wishing to discuss nonsense but answered Legate quite definitively. I also tried Legate to see what he would answer to my suggestion of wishing to listen if he had reasons. (Sidenote: I must say I'm pretty baffled with Legate’s response. In a way his quick rejection of the subject feels sincere but then again his confidence in my judgement feels a bit strange as well).

Generally it makes me wonder why such a bright player like Mac had nothing to say at that point of the game but to bring forwards all this "out of thin air nothing" about my posts. I mean yes I might be mistaken as when some people just jump on you with this kind of nonsense you tend to feel they are wolves trying to get you. But at this point it's my best explanation to Mac's behaviour.

Shasta has an air of forced lightness in his posting, playing with the names included. Like Rikae pointed out he seems "overeager to participate and rather nervous". Also it looks like he's all the time throwing whimsy suspicions left and right and reacting to even smallest things and backing away constantly to fit the mood. It would fit my view of a Shasta-wolf perfectly.

~*~

Okay. These are what I think about them now and why I find them suspicious. I'd like to hear of Mac a bit more though before actually going on to vote for him. The same goes for Shasta. If Mac starts posting his normally helpful stuff I'd be happy not to vote for him and rather vote for someone who doesn't contribute.

That remains to be seen.

[Nogrod]

I'm in a hurry so I try to make this short...

So these are the people I'm pretty unsure about as there seems to be things that worry me and things that speak in their favour.

Nerwen: She's calm and makes good and valuable points, especially about the wolves (which could go either way). Her lightness of tone sounds not the most comfortable to my ear. If someone could be accused of trying to lead the discussion into the nonsense -area it would be Nerwen with her suggestion of the seer being possibly the cursed one.

Boro: Seems to be his normal and reasonable self and if innocent we shouldn't lose him. Then again his vote surprised me even if there are retractions and the reasons he gave are quite odd indeed.

Kath: Nothing to ring my alarm bells but my general fear of Kath and this time the way she addressed Shasta like a mate would. Although in this game the wolves can PM each other so why should she risk advising a fellow in the actual thread? I'm baffled.

Farael: He has been quite sensible this far and I tended to lean on trusting him but his conspiracy-theory on Boro just looks a bit too wild and fabricated to be taken seriously. But still he seems to insist he has an actual point which I find a bit worrysome.

~*~

(OOC) I'll go now visiting Lommy and The Little green and then my mom. It may be I will overnight in my mom's place so it's possible I only get online before the deadline. I'll try to check in at some point though.

Keep up writing.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nerwen's post #90 is a strange one.

She says that she is bugged about the way people are falling in to Mormegil and Mac's suspicions of Farael and Nogrod. But all that had happened is that Shasta wondered about Farael, and Rikae disputed Nogrod (as she said she always does). What was particularly worrying about this?

She also added something about how helpful she is being and how a wolf wanted to kill her in a previous village for being so helpful and clever. Seems to me like she's trying too hard to seem helpful and concerned about the state of the village.

[The Might]

Not so sure what to think about Nerwen right now...
On one hand, one could think that all this discussing other things like what kind of an alliance wolves could make or a crused seer is meant to keep us from actually accusing others.
Then there is the post about Shasta which has really go me thinking.

So: Shasta is either a very confused wolf that "forgot" that rule to make us think he is an innocent or then again this theory could be totally wrong.

However, if I had to vote right now, after reading through the thread, I would probably vote Shasta. That thing about the PMs somehow seems to be a good strategy to win the trust of the others early one and to later disappear from attention.

And as for Nerwen, I think that the posts show willingness to be helpful rather then the wish to lead the others on wrong tracks.

If I'm right about Shasta, then Kath seems suspicious as well, while Legate will probably be innocent.

For now, I'm not going to make any more theories, since I guess it still is too early to really see too many connections between different players, especially since a few have not posted at all. Normally I would suspect them even more, but given the fact that it is Christmas Eve I think they all have a good reason to miss.

Well, I'll be back later on this afternoon to see what has been posted and till then I'll be watching the sheep and decorating the tree.

[The Might]

Sorry for the double post, but I felt the need to add a bit after reading Eomer's last post.
I think Nerwen is making a good argument about not following a bandwagon immediately, but rather analysing the situation on your own first, since the wolves do have the possibilty to manipulate us with 4 of them running around.
And thinking back to last game I know very well what she means, I mean I totally fell for all that the wolves said and those that I suspected were always only innocents...well except one time.
So I still see this as a good warning rather then some strategy. I could of course be wrong...

[Nerwen]

Hello, all. I can't stay around long... there's always grain to be milled– whatever else happens, we must have bread!

I'll just make a few comments:

Regarding my controversial Cursed Seer theory: okay, yes, it was silly– but it was early in the Day, nobody was being serious– so I find it a bit odd the way Nogrod and Kath have reacted.

On the other hand, I don't understand why Boromir88 thinks Kath's behaving differently. My (admittedly limited) experience of her is that she's a pretty aggressive player.

Boro voting her at this stage? That's strange, very strange.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

For instance, I see that Shasta is a wolf, Nerwen is innocent.

I agree with Farael. That looks as if he’s trying to pose as the Seer... though why would he mention “seeing” two people, when we know he can only have dreamed of one?

Finally– Eomer of the Rohirrim, you weren't in the last game, were you? It got very nasty– basically, the four wolves got us all to lynch each other while they sat back on their haunches and laughed. I'm not trying to scare people off voting, just cautioning everyone against letting themselves be led.

EDIT: X'd with The Might.

[The Saucepan Man]

Apologies for not being more vocal but I am unfortunately experiencing internet connection problems. Currently, my only way of accessing the net is via my BlackBerry, which is very cumbersome and not at all conducive to playing WW.

It should sort itself out, but I don,t know how long it will take. Possibly, I may not be able to do anything more toDay other than vote.

I have only really been able to skim read the conversation this far, but here are my current suspicions, for what they are worth.

I tend to find those who come across as cautious on Day 1 as suspicious, as I always think that is the best approach for a Wolf at the outset. The two who have come across as most cautious thus far are Nerwen and Legate. As I think Noggie mentioned, caution is Legate's normal modis operandi. Not sure about Nerwen, but I am uneasy about the way that she seems to be portraying herself as so helpful.

On the other hand, while he is coming across as anything but cautious, I tend to agree with what others have said about Shasta being unusually vocal and somewhat jumpy.

As I said, I doubt that I shall be able to do any more toDay than vote (my thumbs are aching already) and, unless there are any radical developments, I shall probably vote for either Nerwen or Shasta.

Toodlepip.

[Aganzir]

First of all, I won't be able to participate as much as I'd like today. Christmas celebration takes place mainly on Christmas Eve here, and there's a bunch of lovely relatives downstairs... And of course they need a hangwoman among them... He-he..

**

Another thing why the seer can be wrong: the twists. We don't know if there's a false seer, a mytho or something. And is the seer told if s/he dreams of a player with a twist?
I won't waste my time speculating what the twists tp spoke of might be, as it's really rather useless, but I thought this would be good for everyone to keep in mind.

As for irrelevant matters, I don't like how Legate tries to divert attention from finding the wolves in his very first post. It wouldn't be that bad, but his request not to discuss too much about the thing he mentioned makes my alarm ring. That would have made it quite easy for him to lead the discussion in the direction he wants and then back out quickly if someone starts suspecting him.

Has no one really considered the possibility that Boro was merely trying us with his vote? At least to me it seems quite possible.

At the moment I'm inclined to consider Farael, Rikae, morm, Noggie, Boro and Might innocent. Of the others I don't know, except for Legate and Shasta whom I suspect slightly.

**

I'm really sorry, I have to go now. I'll try to be online as much as I can, but it'll be me who ends up being hanged if I spend the whole evening here.