The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2004, 01:59 PM   #1
Ellwyn
Animated Skeleton
 
Ellwyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 27
Ellwyn has just left Hobbiton.
Coincidencial?

Isildur cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand (it was on his finger), and Frodo had the One Ring bitten from his hand (it was on his finger). Was this intended to be so by the great professor or did he just not notice?
__________________
'Too often have I heard of duty. But am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse? I have waited on faltering feet long enough. Since they falter no longer, it seems, may I not now spend my life as I will?' - ╔owyn
Ellwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 02:20 PM   #2
Kransha
Ubiquitous Urulˇki
 
Kransha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment
Posts: 747
Kransha has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Kransha
Well, it could've been meant to be, but I believe it just makes the most sense. Neither Sauron nor Frodo were just going to let the Ring be pulled off their fingers, so the obvious way to part them would be to bite/slash that finger off. Isildur did it because he was in no position to politely ask Sauron to take off the ring and have tea with him. Gollum bit off Frodo's finger because...well, actually, it's just because he likes fingers, it has nothing to do with the Ring.
__________________
"What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name,
Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law.
For old our office, and our fame,"

-Aeschylus, Song of the Furies
Kransha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 07:16 PM   #3
Gil Galad
Haunting Spirit
 
Gil Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hmm... good question....
Posts: 58
Gil Galad has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Gil Galad Send a message via Yahoo to Gil Galad
I just noticed that... but yeah Kransha is right. Welcome to the downs Ellwyn.
__________________
A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT

Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK
Gil Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 07:44 PM   #4
Firefoot
Illusionary Holbytla
 
Firefoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,646
Firefoot has been trapped in the Barrow!
I personally think that he meant to do it. I always thought it was pretty cool about the "nine-fingers" thing. Very few things that Tolkien did were accidental, and I don't think this is one of them. Kransha does have a good point, that it was convenient just to have them lose the finger, but I think it was also done with purpose.
Firefoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 08:06 PM   #5
Kransha
Ubiquitous Urulˇki
 
Kransha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment
Posts: 747
Kransha has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Kransha
Well, there is finger-related symbolism (wow, that doesn't sound right). Nine fingers on Frodo and Sauron, nine members of the Fellowship, nine Nazgul, Nine bastions of evil, etc. That's probably just general linking symbolism; Fellowship - Nazgul, Frodo - Sauron, and onward.
__________________
"What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name,
Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law.
For old our office, and our fame,"

-Aeschylus, Song of the Furies
Kransha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 08:11 PM   #6
Gil Galad
Haunting Spirit
 
Gil Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hmm... good question....
Posts: 58
Gil Galad has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Gil Galad Send a message via Yahoo to Gil Galad
Sauron lost more than one finger
__________________
A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT

Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK
Gil Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 02:14 AM   #7
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,534
Estelyn Telcontar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Estelyn Telcontar is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Silmaril

Only in the movie, Gil Galad...
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 07:10 PM   #8
Gil Galad
Haunting Spirit
 
Gil Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hmm... good question....
Posts: 58
Gil Galad has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Gil Galad Send a message via Yahoo to Gil Galad
Really.... man I haven't read the book in a awhile..
__________________
A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT

Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK
Gil Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2004, 09:32 PM   #9
Knight of Gondor
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Knight of Gondor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 744
Knight of Gondor has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via Yahoo to Knight of Gondor
Estelyn beat me to it, but only because my browser whacked out on me last night. I did think it a strange thing that the movie showed several fingers coming off. It was a pointless detraction from the book. I also think the "fingers" of Sauron correspond to the nine Nazgul.
__________________
Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16
Knight of Gondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2004, 10:48 AM   #10
Ellwyn
Animated Skeleton
 
Ellwyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 27
Ellwyn has just left Hobbiton.
Thanks, Gil Galad and thank you all for responding to my topic!
__________________
'Too often have I heard of duty. But am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse? I have waited on faltering feet long enough. Since they falter no longer, it seems, may I not now spend my life as I will?' - ╔owyn
Ellwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2004, 05:54 PM   #11
zb
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: perth, west australia
Posts: 71
zb has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
I also think the "fingers" of Sauron correspond to the nine Nazgul.
Doesn't Gollum say something along those lines? Anyway, it's interesting, because Sauron gave out the 9 rings before he lost a finger. Did he just know that 9 was the right number of mortal men? Did there just happen to be 9 men who wanted rings? Was it all a coincidence?
__________________
"Do you think I am trying to weave a spell? Perhaps I am; but remember your fairy tales. Spells are used for breaking enchantments as well as inducing them. And you and I have need of the strongest spell that can be found to wake us from the evil enchantment of worldliness..." - C.S. Lewis
zb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2004, 10:19 PM   #12
The Only Real Estel
Raffish Rapscallion
 
The Only Real Estel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
Posts: 3,025
The Only Real Estel has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

More & more coincidences....

I didn't really think about Sauron having one finger for each of the Blackriders, that was probably purposed, though .
The Only Real Estel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2004, 08:05 AM   #13
NightKnight
Lost among the Stars
 
NightKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hiding in Childhood (Sweden)
Posts: 2,696
NightKnight has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Doesn't Gollum say something along those lines? Anyway, it's interesting, because Sauron gave out the 9 rings before he lost a finger. Did he just know that 9 was the right number of mortal men? Did there just happen to be 9 men who wanted rings? Was it all a coincidence?
Rather because there were only nine rings available. If I remember it rightly, it took some time before he got the seven.
__________________
There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who can count, and those who can't.
NightKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2004, 01:32 AM   #14
Hot, crispy nice hobbit
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Troll's larder
Posts: 195
Hot, crispy nice hobbit has just left Hobbiton.
You know, when you come to think of it; the numbers for the rings are quite symbolic. Three rings for the Elven Kings and there were three houses of the Elves: Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri. The Vanyar dwells in the West, of course, and the three rings were not made by Sauron either. Yet Sauron might have wanted to enslave all of the Eldar in Middle-Earth at least via those three rings.

The Seven houses of Dwarves corresponded likewise to Sauron's seven rings. Those rings were either destroyed or taken back. I wondered sometimes what Sauron did with those rings that he got back...

I do not know about the Houses of Men. I certainly know that there were three Edain house in the First Age. Perhaps there were six houses of Easterlings too? The nine Nazgul were literally like Sauron's nine fingers. To combat the nine Black Riders, Elrond send out nine walkers. Note that the Fellowship of the Ring, which comprised of the nine Walkers was eventually left with eight, since Boromir died on the way. But Sauron's Nine was made into eight too: the Witchking was killed. The parallel along those lines might have been coincidental, but it certainly even out the numbers of contestant in the end.

Er, if Gollum is to be counted as being on the side of the Evil, (not just Sauron) then the Nine Nazgul might be counted as ten. Gollum had not faded and was under no command of Sauron, but he definately represented evil and he had possessed for a long time the One ring that ought to have been in the finger of Sauron. If that is the case, however, I should count Gandalf's death in Moria as being parallel with the Witchking's defeat. Note the Parley at the gate of Minas Tirith. Gandalf, returned from the dead, facing the Witchking who is just about to die and not return. Then Gollum's death at Mount Doom might also parallel with the death of Boromir. Both of them betrayed Frodo, and both died and at the same time fulfilled their vow.

The One Ring is Sauron's own. Surely he would not want to make another for somebody else?
Hot, crispy nice hobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2004, 02:36 PM   #15
ArathorofBarahir
Wight
 
ArathorofBarahir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Crickhallow
Posts: 247
ArathorofBarahir has just left Hobbiton.
I think that Tolkien intentionally did that, but who knows?
__________________
King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass.
Aragorn: You will suffer me.
ArathorofBarahir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:29 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.