Alqualondë - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

04-26-2003, 04:48 PM

I've got a question about the Teleri and Alqualondë: What did the Teleri do when the Blessed Realm was removed from the circles of the world? Could they still "sail" on the air? I know that in "The Lost Road and Other Writings" they could, but is that considered canon?

Yavanna Kementari · 04-26-2003, 05:38 PM

I believe they could still sail west and out of the circles of Arda on the Straight Road or Straight Way, to the Blessed Realm when they tired of Middle-earth. The Silmarillion says that they (the Elves) may sail to the True West after the Downfall of Numenor and the Changing of the World.

The Silmarillion says that To men the world was made round, andyet the Eldar were permitted still to depart and to come to the Ancient West.

The only ones that could not set sail to the Undying Lands it says were Men. A few by some grace were permitted to sail on the Straight Way and caught a glimpse of the land 'dreadful and beautiful, before they died.'( this it is said maybe a rumor)

According to the Silmarillion all of the Eldar may make their journey. So I would say it is canon, yes. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I hope this helps!

p.s. I like
your name! ~(~<~> Yavanna

[ April 26, 2003: Message edited by: Yavanna Kementari ]

04-26-2003, 05:55 PM

Actually, I meant the Teleri who already lived at Alqualondë, Olwë's people. It seems such a pity that they would have to leave the Sea they loved so much...

I didn't come up w/ the name myself, "stole" it from Tolkien, lol. Tar-Vanimeldë was the second (I think) ruling Queen of Númenorë and Lalaith was the daughter of Húrin and Morwen.

The X Phial · 04-26-2003, 06:04 PM

I feel that they would still be able to sail, though not to Middle Earth itself. I have no evidence for this, so I may be ripped apart, but the area surrounding Valinor was still seas...just a different one from those of the crooked path. So, they would still have the sea, but a pretty limited destination selection.

Yavanna Kementari · 04-26-2003, 06:43 PM

Good point X [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I never thought of it that way. Lalaith is what I call my daughter [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] thats why I said you had a cool name [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Okay enough emoticons lol! I think what you are saying X, about not being able to sail to Middle-earth; I have read some where,.. maybe it's in the Silmarillion? I am not sure. But it does sound..familiar. Of course, I could go and look it up. lol
~(~<~> Yavanna.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 04-26-2003, 10:37 PM

In Silm it talks about the Teleri sailing to Numenor, but I don't think there's any reference to any of them ever returning to M-E proper (please correct me if I'm wrong...). And of course, that stopped with the Drowning of Numenor and the changing of the world.

The straight road was still open Westbound, I wonder if it was also still open to the East, but the Teleri had no desire to use it? I can't imagine they get a whole lot of fun out of sailing when Avallone and Alqualonde are the only ports though, it's a good point Vanimelde_Lalaith. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Sophia

Annunfuiniel · 04-26-2003, 11:31 PM

Quote:

The straight road was still open Westbound, I wonder if it was also still open to the East

I don't know whether the Road was open for the Teleri or other elves but at least some Maiar could use the path both ways. The Vanyar and the Teleri seem to have had no desire to sail back to East and so they had no use of such road but I don't know about the Noldor; well, I don't think it would have been the Valars' will that they returned to East considering what happened the first time... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I agree with The X Phial that there still was enough sea for the Teleri to sail; they never were such sailors as the men of Númenor with their desire to see all the world (and conquer it). They were most likely quite happy with what they had; and that was still a vast area for I doubt their "world" ended sharp edged right behind Tol Eressëa.

04-26-2003, 04:48 PM	#1
Vanimeldë_Lalaith Guest Posts: n/a	Alqualondë I've got a question about the Teleri and Alqualondë: What did the Teleri do when the Blessed Realm was removed from the circles of the world? Could they still "sail" on the air? I know that in "The Lost Road and Other Writings" they could, but is that considered canon?

04-26-2003, 05:38 PM	#2
Yavanna Kementari Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 97	I believe they could still sail west and out of the circles of Arda on the Straight Road or Straight Way, to the Blessed Realm when they tired of Middle-earth. The Silmarillion says that they (the Elves) may sail to the True West after the Downfall of Numenor and the Changing of the World. The Silmarillion says that To men the world was made round, andyet the Eldar were permitted still to depart and to come to the Ancient West. The only ones that could not set sail to the Undying Lands it says were Men. A few by some grace were permitted to sail on the Straight Way and caught a glimpse of the land 'dreadful and beautiful, before they died.'( this it is said maybe a rumor) According to the Silmarillion all of the Eldar may make their journey. So I would say it is canon, yes. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I hope this helps! p.s. I like your name! ~(~<~> Yavanna [ April 26, 2003: Message edited by: Yavanna Kementari ] __________________ "Nonetheless they will have need of wood." Aulë speaking to Yavanna of Dwarves :P to you Aulë

04-26-2003, 06:04 PM	#4
The X Phial Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Out there with the truth. Come find me. Posts: 320	I feel that they would still be able to sail, though not to Middle Earth itself. I have no evidence for this, so I may be ripped apart, but the area surrounding Valinor was still seas...just a different one from those of the crooked path. So, they would still have the sea, but a pretty limited destination selection. __________________ But then there was a star danced, and under that was I born.

04-26-2003, 06:43 PM	#5
Yavanna Kementari Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 97	Good point X [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I never thought of it that way. Lalaith is what I call my daughter [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] thats why I said you had a cool name [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Okay enough emoticons lol! I think what you are saying X, about not being able to sail to Middle-earth; I have read some where,.. maybe it's in the Silmarillion? I am not sure. But it does sound..familiar. Of course, I could go and look it up. lol ~(~<~> Yavanna. __________________ "Nonetheless they will have need of wood." Aulë speaking to Yavanna of Dwarves :P to you Aulë

04-26-2003, 10:37 PM	#6
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,834	In Silm it talks about the Teleri sailing to Numenor, but I don't think there's any reference to any of them ever returning to M-E proper (please correct me if I'm wrong...). And of course, that stopped with the Drowning of Numenor and the changing of the world. The straight road was still open Westbound, I wonder if it was also still open to the East, but the Teleri had no desire to use it? I can't imagine they get a whole lot of fun out of sailing when Avallone and Alqualonde are the only ports though, it's a good point Vanimelde_Lalaith. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Sophia __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!

04-26-2003, 05:55 PM	#3
Vanimeldë_Lalaith Guest Posts: n/a	Actually, I meant the Teleri who already lived at Alqualondë, Olwë's people. It seems such a pity that they would have to leave the Sea they loved so much... I didn't come up w/ the name myself, "stole" it from Tolkien, lol. Tar-Vanimeldë was the second (I think) ruling Queen of Númenorë and Lalaith was the daughter of Húrin and Morwen.