The Prophecy of Durin VII - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elu Ancalime · 05-25-2006, 05:01 PM

I understand that the birth of Durin VII was prophecized at the Battle of Five Armies, but I dont recall reading it. Who prophecized it? What was said about it?

And the usual: I couldnt find any threads regarding Durin VII in particular.
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Cx500d

Formendacil · 05-25-2006, 07:24 PM

Durin VII is said in Appendix III (regarding Durin's line) to have also been "Durin the Last". In "Of Dwarves and Men" he is said to have finally re-established the Longbeard kingdom in Moria, and presumably ruled over one last golden age of the Dwarves. Apart from the fact that he is descended from Thorin III Stonehelm (the son of Dáin), we know nothing other than these bare facts about him.

To the best of my knowledge -which admittedly may be incorrect, though I don't believe it to be so in this case- there is no mention of him, prophetic or otherwise made at the Battle of the Five Armies, either in the text of The Hobbit or in any other text that touches on the battle.

A_Brandybuck · 05-26-2006, 02:12 PM

There is a little reference to Durin VII concerning the Battle of Five Armies. YOu can find it in HoME XII: Peoples of Middle-Earth: Late Writings, Of Glorfindel, Cirdan and other matters:
The context of the mention is the reincarnation of the Seven Fathers of Dwarves in descendants of them.

In the Third Age Durin VI was slain by a Balrog in 1980. It was prophesied (by the Dwarves), when Dain Ironfoot took kingship in Third Age 2941 (after the Battle of Five Armies), that in his direct line there would one day appear a Durin VII - but he would be the last.

This fact sadly didn't make it to come into the Appendix. ;-)

For me the prophecy of Dain indicates, that the Time of the Dwarves comes to an end similar to the time of Middle-Earth. There was always a Durin (or came back after a time), the next should be the last. It doesn't sound good for the Dwarves. They have already been a dwindling race at the end of the Third Age.

Anguirel · 05-26-2006, 02:28 PM

I am reminded of the Byzantine prophecy that as Constantinople's first Emperor was Constantine born of Helena, so its last Emperor would be Constantine born of Helena. And so it came to pass, in the person of the valiant but doomed Constantine XI Palaeologus.

Deeply sad, in both cases. That sense that I feel is Tolkien's primary "kick", of something being lost that can never be replaced.

05-25-2006, 05:01 PM	#1
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 479	The Prophecy of Durin VII I understand that the birth of Durin VII was prophecized at the Battle of Five Armies, but I dont recall reading it. Who prophecized it? What was said about it? And the usual: I couldnt find any threads regarding Durin VII in particular. ________ Cx500d Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-04-2011 at 12:00 AM.

05-25-2006, 07:24 PM	#2
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,347	Durin VII is said in Appendix III (regarding Durin's line) to have also been "Durin the Last". In "Of Dwarves and Men" he is said to have finally re-established the Longbeard kingdom in Moria, and presumably ruled over one last golden age of the Dwarves. Apart from the fact that he is descended from Thorin III Stonehelm (the son of Dáin), we know nothing other than these bare facts about him. To the best of my knowledge -which admittedly may be incorrect, though I don't believe it to be so in this case- there is no mention of him, prophetic or otherwise made at the Battle of the Five Armies, either in the text of The Hobbit or in any other text that touches on the battle. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

05-26-2006, 02:12 PM	#3
A_Brandybuck Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 95	There is a little reference to Durin VII concerning the Battle of Five Armies. YOu can find it in HoME XII: Peoples of Middle-Earth: Late Writings, Of Glorfindel, Cirdan and other matters: The context of the mention is the reincarnation of the Seven Fathers of Dwarves in descendants of them. In the Third Age Durin VI was slain by a Balrog in 1980. It was prophesied (by the Dwarves), when Dain Ironfoot took kingship in Third Age 2941 (after the Battle of Five Armies), that in his direct line there would one day appear a Durin VII - but he would be the last. This fact sadly didn't make it to come into the Appendix. ;-) For me the prophecy of Dain indicates, that the Time of the Dwarves comes to an end similar to the time of Middle-Earth. There was always a Durin (or came back after a time), the next should be the last. It doesn't sound good for the Dwarves. They have already been a dwindling race at the end of the Third Age. __________________ „I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

05-26-2006, 02:28 PM	#4
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,825	I am reminded of the Byzantine prophecy that as Constantinople's first Emperor was Constantine born of Helena, so its last Emperor would be Constantine born of Helena. And so it came to pass, in the person of the valiant but doomed Constantine XI Palaeologus. Deeply sad, in both cases. That sense that I feel is Tolkien's primary "kick", of something being lost that can never be replaced. __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso