Comparing the movie, " Fellowship of the Ring", to the Book - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Vinyaampawen · 08-21-2002, 06:30 AM

So now that everyone (I assume) has seen the Fellowship of the Ring in either the theatre (I saw it 9 times!) and read the book (another assumption), how do you think they compare?

Has anyone purchased the DVD/movie this month? I heard in London that it came out this month. I am waiting for the Director's cut in November.

Vinyaampawen
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: Vinyaampawen ]

Davin · 08-21-2002, 08:13 AM

Books are almost always better that the movies that are made from them. So the LotR books are much much much better than the movies. But the movie was great, and the next two will be even better. But the books will always be better to true fans, because they offer so much more to their readers.

Aroaraniel · 08-21-2002, 12:17 PM

The books. But the movie was REALLY great too.

Aramacil · 08-21-2002, 12:32 PM

I just bought the video and it was still as good as in the cinema.

but I must agree with you that the books are better.

08-21-2002, 06:56 PM

I bought the video and read all 3 books and I have to say the books give a lot more detail which can kind of make things confusing with all the names! [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] LOL! But the movie was good too.

Eruwen · 08-21-2002, 08:45 PM

Oh, the books were so much better than the movie. I enjoyed them so much, I kept reading them over and over again until my mom almost had to take them away from me. I could go on likt this forever talking about it, but it's late and I have school in the morning. So, I gtg. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Calenedheliel · 08-21-2002, 08:57 PM

I loved the books because they let your imagination run wild. I loved the movie because it gave the characters a face where you could read and see all the emotions they went through during the quest. I own the books, the dvd, and have seen the movie 23 times

Ringwraith Number Two · 08-22-2002, 03:58 AM

The books were better,(for me) because of the sheer detail in them. Reading the book, your imagination is becomes very active and its not like reading a fantasy, but the story of a world that actually exists, because Middle-Earth is so complete, with its extensive history.
The film was good too as few people felt unsatisfied with the way it portrayed the books, but for someone wanting detail, the books are more suitable.

Salix · 08-22-2002, 09:57 AM

I must agree with the people that said that the books were better. The books give many plot lines that movies just can't cover. And the books give more details, and the thoughts of the characters. Like it says in the book WHY Frodo wanted to put on the Ring when the first Black Rider approached, but in the movie all he does is rools his eyes and almost puts on the Ring. But movies are good too as then you can see faces and places. Even if they aren't the same as what you imagined, then it's all right since if you have a block in your mind as how to imagine Rivendell for example, then the movie could help. On the other hand for both, when I first started reading The Hobbit, I was reading my school library's copy, which just happened to be illustrated by the cartoon version of the hobbit. Now the cartoon characters are stuck in my head. Okay I'll shut up now.

Thengise Greenleaf of Mirkwood · 08-22-2002, 10:09 AM

Yes it is true that the books are the best. They always will be, but it is also true that it was a great movie and i'm sure the next two will also be great! Of course the books will remain the best. Yes, i bought the DVD the first day it came out and my dad is going to buy the 4 disc one.(it's part of our deal)hehehe.

Lhunbelethiel · 08-22-2002, 11:33 AM

Loved the movie, which moved me to read the books, which I loved even more. The books require more emotional investment (not to mention the time it takes to read them!) than the movie, though the film was very touching and exciting as a whole. I like the intricasies of the book as compared to the film.

08-22-2002, 11:07 PM

I'm torn, cos when I saw the movie I had one chapter left in the book, and I was in the "oh, the book is incredible, the movie is going to suck" mood, but then I was totally blown away by the movie and finished the rest of the trilogy with relish, and I absolutely love them both. I guess, yea, I'd have to say the books are better, just so much more story and the real story not...altered...at...all....*thinking of shooting Arwen off Asfaloth with an army of arrows* hehe don't mind me.......just want Glorfindel!! But I don't want to kill the future Queen of Gondor either, so I'll just deal....
Anyway yes the movie is completely incredible but the books are amazing and a wee bit better..
Cheers
§Tookish§

akhtene · 08-23-2002, 05:31 PM

I love both the book and the film, but for different reasons. The book is much richer in details and explanations, gives the background of events and generally speaking food for thought.
And the film, imo, arouses emotions and allows to see people and places to people like me, who has absolutely no 'visual' imagination.

Jeli Baggins · 08-26-2002, 05:31 PM

Yeah i think the books are better too, but ya see, i read the book to see the movie, if you follow me. So the things I couldn't picture in my head i thought the movie could help with. *thinks about Tom Bombadil's house, the barrow downs, and the Old Forest* oh well (better luck next time!) and i plan on reading TTT and RotK to see the movie too. I also bought the movie as soon as it came out (preordered it) and bought sum popcorn from the theater next door. (they must've thought i was crazy!!!) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
Did anyone else feel weird when they watched it 4 the 1st time in their house? i did. It felt like i never saw it b4. (maybe because it was 88 days since the last time I saw it, Jan. 30th!

Rohirrim Lass · 08-26-2002, 05:33 PM

I liked them both, but I have to agree with the people who are saying that books are almost always better than the movies made from them. I didn't like the, what I considered, plot mutilations, but I did like the way PJ portrayed a lot of things.

Arie · 08-26-2002, 05:39 PM

Hello-and Yes i read all the books-I got the movie on pre-order-I liked the movie-but i always thought the book was much better-
Why didn't they use Glorfindel instead of Arwen!-I like Glorfindel as he is!-Tom Bombadil wasn't there too...

Rohirrim Lass · 08-26-2002, 05:41 PM

I understand why they dropped Glorfindel for Arwen. I hate it, but I understand it.

Catherine · 08-26-2002, 07:46 PM

To make a long story short, I loved the movie but hated how they changed things and left things out. So the book is better!

Vinyaampawen · 08-27-2002, 07:58 AM

Greetings Thengise Greenleaf of Mirkwood, and all on the Barrow Downs!

I am finally back in California after my long trip. There is a 4 disc DVD coming out? Is that part of the DVD set that is coming out in November?

Huzzah!!!

As for me....I loved the movie, "Fellowship of the Ring", and had to keep seeing it in the theatre again and again! I truly enjoyed how the actors brought to life my imaginatiion as they portrayed the characters I cherish in literature...particularly Aragorn and Legolas. I realized that the movie is another medium and can never have the detail of the book...but that's o.k. with me...the movie is another art form and re-creation/interpretation of the magic words Tolkein wrote many years ago.

Vinyaampawen

P.S. I have been so excited knowing that the video and DVD are out now but I hesitate to buy the newest DVD since I don't have a DVD player. Anyone have any recommendations on a good DVD player? Thank you!!!

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

The Fifth · 08-27-2002, 08:04 AM

I'd love to rain on your parade, but hasn't this topic been discussed many, many times before? And shouldn't this be in the Movies Forum?

Vinyaampawen · 08-27-2002, 08:18 AM

Well The Fifth! How are you and Good Morning?
No problem....you are not "raining on my parade". Yes this topic has been discussed before (i.e. probably) but Estelyn Telcontar, is the moderator of this topic and she told me that she believes this is an excellent topic for Novices and Newcomers which a lot of us are. I agree with her and started the topic on Novices and Newcomers because the DVD and video just came out this month so comparisons can again be made.

I suspect that we all will be making comparisons again in November when the Director's cut of the Fellowship of the Ring comes out, the Two Towers comes out in December of this 2002 and The Return of the King comes out in December, 2003 and then again for infinity as long as we continue to be fans/readers of Tolkein, The Trilogy, and the movies. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

LadyElbereth · 08-27-2002, 10:37 AM

i just finished reading "the Fellowship of the Ring" for the very first time and i must say that they left A TON of stuff out in the movie. anyway, the book was way better but the movie was awesome too!

Estelyn Telcontar · 08-28-2002, 01:05 AM

This is a topic that many can participate in, but it would be much more interesting if all tell just what it is that they noticed when comparing the book and the movie. Just saying "I liked one better than the other" will be boring repetition!

One thing I, like many other long-time book fans, enjoyed about the movie was the chapter titles that were worked into the dialogues as an inside joke: "Riddles in the Dark" (from the Hobbit) and "A Shortcut to Mushrooms" were two of them. I also found it interesting to compare dialogues, such as the beginning lines, which were taken from a different context, even from a different character, but worked pretty well where they were put in the movie.

anduril444 · 08-31-2002, 03:21 PM

yeah im glad i read the books first before seening the movie.Its impossible to make a movie out of a book let alone lord of the rings.one thing though when they gonna reforge narsil 10 minutes before the end of rotk.

Alaggaeriel · 09-01-2002, 02:31 PM

It's kinda hard for me to choose. Yes, the book goes into alot more detail and makes everything make sense, but the movie still did a very good job. I don't like that they changed Arwen's role in the story but I don't think that could have been helped. I'd say they both rank number 1 with me.

Orome · 09-01-2002, 08:29 PM

Quote:

one thing though when they gonna reforge narsil 10 minutes before the end of rotk.

what does that mean? ^^

also the reason they cut out tom B was that he really did nothing for the plot. He would make the movie longer by about half an hour (not that i would mind, but the public would probably) also he would be another character to remember.

With Glorfindle (sp?) it is the same thing. it is his only apperance, really, and they need to show a romance and may as well introduce her early in the movies as she will appear later

just my two cents worth

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Orome ]

anduril444 · 09-02-2002, 01:45 PM

It means just that orome when????????????

Sangoff · 09-02-2002, 08:35 PM

I thought both the movie and the books were wonderful. However, I'm gonna agree with everyone else by saying that the books are better. I can't stop reading them. As soon as I'm finished reading RotK (which I'm about to be AGAIN) I start all over because it's just so sad when they end. Why not just start the whole adventure over?
I thouroughly enjoy the movie too though. I think that Peter Jackson (being a fan himself) tried very hard to capture Middle Earth and it's characters, and I also think that he succeeded. He added so much detail it's almost unbelievable!! My breath is always taken away at certain parts, and I can't peal my eyes away from the screen for even a second.
I love both the movie and the books, I watch and read them both all the time!! Almost too much heehee. Both are great and while I do think that the books are better, I think that movie is spectacular. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I pity the people who have nothing better to with their time than pick it apart like meat and constantly critisize it. :S

Tolkien Rocks!!

08-21-2002, 06:30 AM	#1
Vinyaampawen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rivendell, Middle Earth Posts: 30	Comparing the movie, " Fellowship of the Ring", to the Book So now that everyone (I assume) has seen the Fellowship of the Ring in either the theatre (I saw it 9 times!) and read the book (another assumption), how do you think they compare? Has anyone purchased the DVD/movie this month? I heard in London that it came out this month. I am waiting for the Director's cut in November. Vinyaampawen [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: Vinyaampawen ] __________________ Vinyaampawen

08-21-2002, 08:13 AM	#2
Davin Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 166	Books are almost always better that the movies that are made from them. So the LotR books are much much much better than the movies. But the movie was great, and the next two will be even better. But the books will always be better to true fans, because they offer so much more to their readers. __________________ So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. »»The Telmena««

08-21-2002, 12:17 PM	#3
Aroaraniel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buckland Posts: 158	The books. But the movie was REALLY great too. __________________ Pippin and Merry rule! -- Lissenen ar' maska'lalaith tenna' lye omentuva!

08-21-2002, 12:32 PM	#4
Aramacil Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 131	I just bought the video and it was still as good as in the cinema. but I must agree with you that the books are better. __________________ "I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."

08-22-2002, 09:57 AM	#9
Salix Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Riverbank of the Anduin Posts: 299	I must agree with the people that said that the books were better. The books give many plot lines that movies just can't cover. And the books give more details, and the thoughts of the characters. Like it says in the book WHY Frodo wanted to put on the Ring when the first Black Rider approached, but in the movie all he does is rools his eyes and almost puts on the Ring. But movies are good too as then you can see faces and places. Even if they aren't the same as what you imagined, then it's all right since if you have a block in your mind as how to imagine Rivendell for example, then the movie could help. On the other hand for both, when I first started reading The Hobbit, I was reading my school library's copy, which just happened to be illustrated by the cartoon version of the hobbit. Now the cartoon characters are stuck in my head. Okay I'll shut up now. __________________ Do not trifle with Dragons, as you are small, and crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.

08-21-2002, 06:56 PM	#5
Rhocolan Guest Posts: n/a	I bought the video and read all 3 books and I have to say the books give a lot more detail which can kind of make things confusing with all the names! [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] LOL! But the movie was good too.

08-21-2002, 08:45 PM	#6
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 901	Oh, the books were so much better than the movie. I enjoyed them so much, I kept reading them over and over again until my mom almost had to take them away from me. I could go on likt this forever talking about it, but it's late and I have school in the morning. So, I gtg. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

08-21-2002, 08:57 PM	#7
Calenedheliel Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mirkwood Posts: 34	I loved the books because they let your imagination run wild. I loved the movie because it gave the characters a face where you could read and see all the emotions they went through during the quest. I own the books, the dvd, and have seen the movie 23 times

08-22-2002, 03:58 AM	#8
Ringwraith Number Two Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 75	The books were better,(for me) because of the sheer detail in them. Reading the book, your imagination is becomes very active and its not like reading a fantasy, but the story of a world that actually exists, because Middle-Earth is so complete, with its extensive history. The film was good too as few people felt unsatisfied with the way it portrayed the books, but for someone wanting detail, the books are more suitable.

08-22-2002, 10:09 AM	#10
Thengise Greenleaf of Mirkwood Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mirkwood, my kingdom Posts: 404	Yes it is true that the books are the best. They always will be, but it is also true that it was a great movie and i'm sure the next two will also be great! Of course the books will remain the best. Yes, i bought the DVD the first day it came out and my dad is going to buy the 4 disc one.(it's part of our deal)hehehe. __________________ Thengise Greenleaf daughter of Legolas Greenleaf. My heart and soul belong to Judge Simon.

08-22-2002, 11:33 AM	#11
Lhunbelethiel Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco Bay Area (aka Bay of Belfalas) Posts: 103	Loved the movie, which moved me to read the books, which I loved even more. The books require more emotional investment (not to mention the time it takes to read them!) than the movie, though the film was very touching and exciting as a whole. I like the intricasies of the book as compared to the film. __________________ ~~All that is gold does not glitter, not all who wander are lost, all that is old does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost...~~

08-22-2002, 11:07 PM	#12
TookishBrandybuck Guest Posts: n/a	I'm torn, cos when I saw the movie I had one chapter left in the book, and I was in the "oh, the book is incredible, the movie is going to suck" mood, but then I was totally blown away by the movie and finished the rest of the trilogy with relish, and I absolutely love them both. I guess, yea, I'd have to say the books are better, just so much more story and the real story not...altered...at...all....thinking of shooting Arwen off Asfaloth with an army of arrows hehe don't mind me.......just want Glorfindel!! But I don't want to kill the future Queen of Gondor either, so I'll just deal.... Anyway yes the movie is completely incredible but the books are amazing and a wee bit better.. Cheers §Tookish§

08-23-2002, 05:31 PM	#13
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 392	I love both the book and the film, but for different reasons. The book is much richer in details and explanations, gives the background of events and generally speaking food for thought. And the film, imo, arouses emotions and allows to see people and places to people like me, who has absolutely no 'visual' imagination. __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

08-26-2002, 05:31 PM	#14
Jeli Baggins Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 69	Yeah i think the books are better too, but ya see, i read the book to see the movie, if you follow me. So the things I couldn't picture in my head i thought the movie could help with. thinks about Tom Bombadil's house, the barrow downs, and the Old Forest oh well (better luck next time!) and i plan on reading TTT and RotK to see the movie too. I also bought the movie as soon as it came out (preordered it) and bought sum popcorn from the theater next door. (they must've thought i was crazy!!!) [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Did anyone else feel weird when they watched it 4 the 1st time in their house? i did. It felt like i never saw it b4. (maybe because it was 88 days since the last time I saw it, Jan. 30th! __________________ "My dear Frodo! Hobbits really are amazing creatures. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month, and yet after a hundred years they can still surprise you." ~ Gandalf to Frodo

08-26-2002, 05:33 PM	#15
Rohirrim Lass Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Where ever... Posts: 25	I liked them both, but I have to agree with the people who are saying that books are almost always better than the movies made from them. I didn't like the, what I considered, plot mutilations, but I did like the way PJ portrayed a lot of things.

08-26-2002, 05:39 PM	#16
Arie Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fangorn Forest Posts: 50	Hello-and Yes i read all the books-I got the movie on pre-order-I liked the movie-but i always thought the book was much better- Why didn't they use Glorfindel instead of Arwen!-I like Glorfindel as he is!-Tom Bombadil wasn't there too... __________________ "Don't tell me of facts, I never believe facts; you know Canning said nothing was so fallacious as facts, except figures."--Sydney Smith

08-26-2002, 05:41 PM	#17
Rohirrim Lass Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Where ever... Posts: 25	I understand why they dropped Glorfindel for Arwen. I hate it, but I understand it.

08-26-2002, 07:46 PM	#18
Catherine Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lothlorien Posts: 297	To make a long story short, I loved the movie but hated how they changed things and left things out. So the book is better! __________________ ~.:Catherine:.~ "I have never been out of my own land before. And if I had known what the world outside was like. I don't think I should have had the heart to leave it." ~Merry to Haldir in Lothlórien~

08-27-2002, 07:58 AM	#19
Vinyaampawen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rivendell, Middle Earth Posts: 30	Greetings Thengise Greenleaf of Mirkwood, and all on the Barrow Downs! I am finally back in California after my long trip. There is a 4 disc DVD coming out? Is that part of the DVD set that is coming out in November? Huzzah!!! As for me....I loved the movie, "Fellowship of the Ring", and had to keep seeing it in the theatre again and again! I truly enjoyed how the actors brought to life my imaginatiion as they portrayed the characters I cherish in literature...particularly Aragorn and Legolas. I realized that the movie is another medium and can never have the detail of the book...but that's o.k. with me...the movie is another art form and re-creation/interpretation of the magic words Tolkein wrote many years ago. Vinyaampawen P.S. I have been so excited knowing that the video and DVD are out now but I hesitate to buy the newest DVD since I don't have a DVD player. Anyone have any recommendations on a good DVD player? Thank you!!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ Vinyaampawen

08-27-2002, 08:04 AM	#20
The Fifth Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mordor Posts: 427	I'd love to rain on your parade, but hasn't this topic been discussed many, many times before? And shouldn't this be in the Movies Forum? __________________ - Ringwraith #5, Servant of the Eye

08-27-2002, 08:18 AM	#21
Vinyaampawen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rivendell, Middle Earth Posts: 30	Well The Fifth! How are you and Good Morning? No problem....you are not "raining on my parade". Yes this topic has been discussed before (i.e. probably) but Estelyn Telcontar, is the moderator of this topic and she told me that she believes this is an excellent topic for Novices and Newcomers which a lot of us are. I agree with her and started the topic on Novices and Newcomers because the DVD and video just came out this month so comparisons can again be made. I suspect that we all will be making comparisons again in November when the Director's cut of the Fellowship of the Ring comes out, the Two Towers comes out in December of this 2002 and The Return of the King comes out in December, 2003 and then again for infinity as long as we continue to be fans/readers of Tolkein, The Trilogy, and the movies. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ Vinyaampawen

08-27-2002, 10:37 AM	#22
LadyElbereth Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Taniquetil Posts: 190	i just finished reading "the Fellowship of the Ring" for the very first time and i must say that they left A TON of stuff out in the movie. anyway, the book was way better but the movie was awesome too! __________________ If I could be anything, I'd be your tear, so I could be born in your eye, live down your cheek, and die on your lips.

08-28-2002, 01:05 AM	#23
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,645	This is a topic that many can participate in, but it would be much more interesting if all tell just what it is that they noticed when comparing the book and the movie. Just saying "I liked one better than the other" will be boring repetition! One thing I, like many other long-time book fans, enjoyed about the movie was the chapter titles that were worked into the dialogues as an inside joke: "Riddles in the Dark" (from the Hobbit) and "A Shortcut to Mushrooms" were two of them. I also found it interesting to compare dialogues, such as the beginning lines, which were taken from a different context, even from a different character, but worked pretty well where they were put in the movie. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

08-31-2002, 03:21 PM	#24
anduril444 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 12	yeah im glad i read the books first before seening the movie.Its impossible to make a movie out of a book let alone lord of the rings.one thing though when they gonna reforge narsil 10 minutes before the end of rotk.

09-01-2002, 02:31 PM	#25
Alaggaeriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas, USA Posts: 35	It's kinda hard for me to choose. Yes, the book goes into alot more detail and makes everything make sense, but the movie still did a very good job. I don't like that they changed Arwen's role in the story but I don't think that could have been helped. I'd say they both rank number 1 with me. __________________ Speak, Friend, and Enter.

09-02-2002, 01:45 PM	#27
anduril444 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 12	It means just that orome when????????????

09-02-2002, 08:35 PM	#28
Sangoff Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: USA Posts: 19	I thought both the movie and the books were wonderful. However, I'm gonna agree with everyone else by saying that the books are better. I can't stop reading them. As soon as I'm finished reading RotK (which I'm about to be AGAIN) I start all over because it's just so sad when they end. Why not just start the whole adventure over? I thouroughly enjoy the movie too though. I think that Peter Jackson (being a fan himself) tried very hard to capture Middle Earth and it's characters, and I also think that he succeeded. He added so much detail it's almost unbelievable!! My breath is always taken away at certain parts, and I can't peal my eyes away from the screen for even a second. I love both the movie and the books, I watch and read them both all the time!! Almost too much heehee. Both are great and while I do think that the books are better, I think that movie is spectacular. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I pity the people who have nothing better to with their time than pick it apart like meat and constantly critisize it. :S Tolkien Rocks!! __________________ "Well this is the end Sam Gamgee," said a voice by his side. And there was Frodo, pale and worn, and yet himslef again; and in his eyes there was peace now, neither strain of will, nor madness, nor any fear. His burden was taken away. There was the dear master of the sweet days in the Shire. "Master!" cried Sam and fell upon his knees. In all that ruin of the world for the moment he felt only joy, great joy. The burden was gone. His master had been saved; he was himself again, he was free. - RotK