She-elf? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ellwyn · 03-19-2004, 01:21 PM

Having read a lot of (terrible) fanfics on various websites it comes to my attention that many are calling themselves she-elves. In LOTR, that is also what the Nazgul call Arwen.

I heard somewhere that it was an insult to call someone a she-elf. Is this correct? Are a bunch of newbies writing fanfiction these days?

Lindalirien O Lorien · 03-19-2004, 02:36 PM

I have heard that too, I was reading a story and it was just plain horribe and the girl kept calling the main character a 'she-elf' One of her reviwers wrote that it was an insult to elven women. I don't know, I think it sounds like an insult but I am not sure.

Yes, unfortunalty there are not many good Lord of the Rings fanfictions anymore. There are a couple around still. One fanfiction.net there is one called Time and Space and also Carry you home

The first one is about Legolas falling into our time period and being put into a mental hospital (and to my surprise it is not a romance!)

The second one is a little story about Celeborn and Galadriel departing. It features the song Into the West by Annie Lennox.

Hope you read those stories, they are really good (well at least in my opinion) See ya!

The Only Real Estel · 03-19-2004, 05:57 PM

Quote:

One of her reviwers wrote that it was an insult to elven women. I don't know, I think it sounds like an insult but I am not sure.

It sounds like an insecure Nazgul trying to enforce the fact that he can tell the difference between males & females (or should I say hes & shes?)

.

Firefoot · 03-19-2004, 06:20 PM

In the movie, I think it is used as an insult. It sounds like an insult. I too have noted that a lot of fanfics use the term and it kinda bothers me. It sounds rather derrogatory.

*chuckles* That's a good one, Real Estel!

***The Barrow-Wight*** · 03-19-2004, 07:35 PM

In my opinion, the term 'she-elf' is the absolute worst Middle-earth pollution the screenwriters managed to inject into the movies. It is a ridiculous term and fairly insulting to both females and Tolkien fans as a whole. I see it as just another twist of the knife into the backs of those people who were distressed by Glorfindel's metamorphisis, and an undisguised gadget to show a little 'girl power'. That it has been subsequently overused by impressionable film fans only makes the term more pernicious. It needs to be shoved into a barrow with Grelvish and forgotten.

Bêthberry · 03-19-2004, 07:54 PM

Surely in the great wordhoards of Rohan or the stacks of Gondor, such a word would be sh-elved as too arcane for popular use.

Hot, crispy nice hobbit · 03-20-2004, 01:36 AM

I am not at all distressed by the 'undisguised gadget to show a little girl power'. But admittedly, I dislike Arwen in the movie a great deal...

But I would be mighty put off if the Nazgul came up with a term called 'she-man'. Feminist around the world would probably rise bon-fires of anything afflitrated with Prof T's works.

Lindalirien O Lorien · 03-20-2004, 10:15 AM

I agree with you Hot, crispy nice hobbit, I didn't like Arwen to much either, I think she played to much of a role (especially when she saved Frodo, poor Glorfindel always getting shoved aside) and I didn't like it when a scene with her would randomly just pop out of no where (like in the Two Towers). At least Peter Jackson decided not to have her come to Helms Deep like he was going to originally!

The Only Real Estel · 03-20-2004, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Surely in the great wordhoards of Rohan or the stacks of Gondor, such a word would be sh-elved as too arcane for popular use.

Nice jab

.

Lyta_Underhill · 03-20-2004, 10:35 PM

I suppose I was too busy being miffed at the "give up the halfling" part to notice just how ridiculous "she-elf" sounded. The worst part of that exchange, to me, was the reducing of Frodo to the status of pawn or possession, something an elf could "give up," and I suppose I didn't much go for the whole Xenarwen turn, but I didn't mind Arwen replacing Glorfindel at that point. I guess the "she-elf" pejorative just rolled off my back as too ridiculous to worry about much with everything else that was twisted in that scene. It is a shame that it is making odd appearances in fanfiction. I'll have to keep the mouse poised over the "X" when I see it...

Cheers!
Lyta

Finwe · 03-22-2004, 09:36 PM

*puts on the hat of Devil's Advocate*

I think that the screenwriters were trying to interject some pernicious Nazgul vs. Elf hatred into the movie, by using that line. They probably wanted to show that the Nazgul were so confident in their (and their Master's) ability to daunt all their opponents that they would actually presume to order Arwen about.

*takes off the hat*

I still think that whole Nazgul vs. Elf thing would have worked out a lot better if the screenwriters had:

1) Kept Glorfindel in that role. (Well, in this case, even XenArwen would work.)

2) Had the Nazgul say: "Give up the Halfling, Elf!" or something to that effect.

Nilpaurion Felagund · 03-22-2004, 09:58 PM

The best way to have done the scene was to be faithful to the books. But one could only wish. *sigh*

"She-elf" was an insult to Arwen. Any fanfic writer using the epithet as a general term for the female of the Elder Kindred...well...should know that. The proper term would have been...

Quote:

Here elf and elf-maiden
Now welcome the weary...

(The Hobbit 19 - emphasis mine)

Silmiel of Imladris · 04-03-2004, 12:02 PM

This reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

King: Old Woman!

Peasant: Man!

King: Sorry, Old Man!

Peasant: I am 37.

King: What?

Peasent: I am 37. I am not old.

King: Well I can't just call you Man.

And they go on about not asking the peasent his name and blah blah blah.... Anyway maybe the Nazgul did know Arwen's name so he called her elf but he couldn't just call her elf so he called her she-elf not knowing proper manners.

dragoneyes · 04-10-2004, 03:13 PM

On the subject of terms used by novice Fanfiction writers, where in all of Middle-earth did the term 'hobbitling' come from? I have seen it a few times in various places and it refers to young hobbits. I can see ther might be a need for a hobbit equivalent of boy or girl, but hobbitling? Sounds like piglet or gosling.

03-19-2004, 01:21 PM	#1
Ellwyn Animated Skeleton Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 27	She-elf? Having read a lot of (terrible) fanfics on various websites it comes to my attention that many are calling themselves she-elves. In LOTR, that is also what the Nazgul call Arwen. I heard somewhere that it was an insult to call someone a she-elf. Is this correct? Are a bunch of newbies writing fanfiction these days? __________________ 'Too often have I heard of duty. But am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse? I have waited on faltering feet long enough. Since they falter no longer, it seems, may I not now spend my life as I will?' - Éowyn

03-19-2004, 02:36 PM	#2
Lindalirien O Lorien Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Golden Wood Posts: 17	I have heard that too, I was reading a story and it was just plain horribe and the girl kept calling the main character a 'she-elf' One of her reviwers wrote that it was an insult to elven women. I don't know, I think it sounds like an insult but I am not sure. Yes, unfortunalty there are not many good Lord of the Rings fanfictions anymore. There are a couple around still. One fanfiction.net there is one called Time and Space and also Carry you home The first one is about Legolas falling into our time period and being put into a mental hospital (and to my surprise it is not a romance!) The second one is a little story about Celeborn and Galadriel departing. It features the song Into the West by Annie Lennox. Hope you read those stories, they are really good (well at least in my opinion) See ya! __________________ Faithful servent yet master's bane, Lightfoot's foal Snowmane

03-19-2004, 07:35 PM	#5
*The Barrow-Wight* Night In Wight Satin Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 4,058	In my opinion, the term 'she-elf' is the absolute worst Middle-earth pollution the screenwriters managed to inject into the movies. It is a ridiculous term and fairly insulting to both females and Tolkien fans as a whole. I see it as just another twist of the knife into the backs of those people who were distressed by Glorfindel's metamorphisis, and an undisguised gadget to show a little 'girl power'. That it has been subsequently overused by impressionable film fans only makes the term more pernicious. It needs to be shoved into a barrow with Grelvish and forgotten. __________________ The Barrow-Wight

03-19-2004, 07:54 PM	#6
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,170	Surely in the great wordhoards of Rohan or the stacks of Gondor, such a word would be sh-elved as too arcane for popular use. __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

03-20-2004, 01:36 AM	#7
Hot, crispy nice hobbit Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Troll's larder Posts: 195	I am not at all distressed by the 'undisguised gadget to show a little girl power'. But admittedly, I dislike Arwen in the movie a great deal... But I would be mighty put off if the Nazgul came up with a term called 'she-man'. Feminist around the world would probably rise bon-fires of anything afflitrated with Prof T's works. __________________ 'He wouldn't make above a mouthful,' said William, who had already had a fine supper, 'not when he was skinned and boned.'

03-19-2004, 06:20 PM	#4
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,646	In the movie, I think it is used as an insult. It sounds like an insult. I too have noted that a lot of fanfics use the term and it kinda bothers me. It sounds rather derrogatory. chuckles That's a good one, Real Estel!

03-20-2004, 10:15 AM	#8
Lindalirien O Lorien Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Golden Wood Posts: 17	I agree with you Hot, crispy nice hobbit, I didn't like Arwen to much either, I think she played to much of a role (especially when she saved Frodo, poor Glorfindel always getting shoved aside) and I didn't like it when a scene with her would randomly just pop out of no where (like in the Two Towers). At least Peter Jackson decided not to have her come to Helms Deep like he was going to originally! __________________ Faithful servent yet master's bane, Lightfoot's foal Snowmane

03-20-2004, 10:35 PM	#10
Lyta_Underhill Haunted Halfling Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: an uncounted length of steps--floating between air molecules Posts: 844	I suppose I was too busy being miffed at the "give up the halfling" part to notice just how ridiculous "she-elf" sounded. The worst part of that exchange, to me, was the reducing of Frodo to the status of pawn or possession, something an elf could "give up," and I suppose I didn't much go for the whole Xenarwen turn, but I didn't mind Arwen replacing Glorfindel at that point. I guess the "she-elf" pejorative just rolled off my back as too ridiculous to worry about much with everything else that was twisted in that scene. It is a shame that it is making odd appearances in fanfiction. I'll have to keep the mouse poised over the "X" when I see it... Cheers! Lyta __________________ “…she laid herself to rest upon Cerin Amroth; and there is her green grave, until the world is changed, and all the days of her life are utterly forgotten by men that come after, and elanor and niphredil bloom no more east of the Sea.”

03-22-2004, 09:36 PM	#11
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	puts on the hat of Devil's Advocate I think that the screenwriters were trying to interject some pernicious Nazgul vs. Elf hatred into the movie, by using that line. They probably wanted to show that the Nazgul were so confident in their (and their Master's) ability to daunt all their opponents that they would actually presume to order Arwen about. takes off the hat I still think that whole Nazgul vs. Elf thing would have worked out a lot better if the screenwriters had: 1) Kept Glorfindel in that role. (Well, in this case, even XenArwen would work.) 2) Had the Nazgul say: "Give up the Halfling, Elf!" or something to that effect. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

04-03-2004, 12:02 PM	#13
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Seems Familar... This reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail: King: Old Woman! Peasant: Man! King: Sorry, Old Man! Peasant: I am 37. King: What? Peasent: I am 37. I am not old. King: Well I can't just call you Man. And they go on about not asking the peasent his name and blah blah blah.... Anyway maybe the Nazgul did know Arwen's name so he called her elf but he couldn't just call her elf so he called her she-elf not knowing proper manners. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

04-10-2004, 03:13 PM	#14
dragoneyes Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Completely lost track, sorry! Posts: 743	On the subject of terms used by novice Fanfiction writers, where in all of Middle-earth did the term 'hobbitling' come from? I have seen it a few times in various places and it refers to young hobbits. I can see ther might be a need for a hobbit equivalent of boy or girl, but hobbitling? Sounds like piglet or gosling. __________________ "We might succeed in roasting Pippin alive inside." - Frodo.