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Old 05-23-2006, 01:38 PM   #921
Eomer of the Rohirrim
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Apparently Sleepy wants to look as suspicious as possible.

Kath, perhaps I shouldn't explain what I have got from the change in game mechanics. I'm not sure it's quite fair to speculate on such issues so I'll just shut up and keep playing the game.

I think I shall be voting for Sleepy or Diamond. I shall ponder this deeply (as opposed to, you know, studying for my exam tomorrow. )
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:40 PM   #922
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Right now I almost feel like voting for Sleepy just because of his continued non-participation and bandwaggony vote there for Jenny. I'm not convinced, personally, that Roa would turn Jenny so soon after Jenny's recent evilness, and the fact that they're familiar with each other doesn't mean diddly squat to me since she's familiar with me, too. And Jenny's posts toDay feel somewhat innocent to me. I've been fooled before, but I can't just ignore my instincts or that will cause even more confusion and hysteria in my posts. So let's please not jump all over Jenny, toDay. I realize that if Jenny turns out to be a wolf and dies before me, this will be a bad stance, but I bloody well don't care anymore. There is no more chance for me to be turned into a wolf and get lynched for stuff I said while innocent, so, do your worst to me.

However, even Sleepy's current uber-Sleepiness won't divert me from my more long term suspicion.

Reasons why I think Lalaith is a good vote.

Roa's analysis of her the other day expressed some suspicions but was overall somewhat neutral, and her final opinion was this:


Quote:
After all this, there are some things that tweak me about Lal, but not enough for me to consider her guilty. My only concern is that she may be the wolf from last night, since she's intelligent and vocal but hasn't drawn much suspicion as of yet.
I get the feeling this is all to appease my outspoken worries to the effect that Lalaith was being overlooked -- here the EW looks at her wolf, presents a few fairly reasonable suspicions, but soothes the overall view. The comment about her possibly being turned most recently doesn't really encourage anyone to start voting for her. I just got the feeling that we were supposed to look at Lalaith, feel satisfied, then look away for the time being. This just doesn't sit well with me, especially since I do find some of Lal's actions suspicious, especially after reading the overview.

Morm still scares me, just because I can well see him coasting to the end on the argument that you can't lynch him just because you fear what he could be if he were evil. However, I honestly can't find anything wolfish in his actual posts. So I can't vote. Eomer is pointing fingers at Glirdan and Zali for reasons pertaining to the Mod's actions, which is always looked at askance, but frankly I can see his point (if you were the mod and faced with knocking off your wolves, would you?) so I'm prepared to not think it suspicious of him, per se. His view on the Roa/Diamond issue is charmingly inaccurate -- I find the idea that I never overreact when innocent to be the stuff of belly laughs. I find Kath's behavior to be a bit sketchy right now, being angry with the Mod God for sparing lives and claiming her brain hurts -- I've seen that before from her duckish ancestor. But since I've got my eye on Lal for toDay I'll worry about Kath later. The other villagers right now are too quiet or hard to pin down to really comment on.

+ + LALAITH

I'm going to catch a wolf or die trying.
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:45 PM   #923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond18
I'm going to catch a wolf or die trying.
But at least you'll go out with the moral highground and whatnot, no?
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:49 PM   #924
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Ah it wasn't the brain last time Di but the lungs! And to repeat, I wasn't angry because of what the rule was changed to, but because the rule was changed after a post I made which had a fair sized portion on why we were fine to ignore those who would die anyway. I was cross because it meant I had to rethink it.

Ok, Eomer.

Sleepy's vote for Jenny looked barely thought-out. I'd like to see some more reasoning from him though before we do anything drastic about it. If he can come up with something.

Diamond your points on Lalaith are good. I can see how Roa might try to deflect suspicion by analysing her herself. It would also give us a 'middling' wolf. Someone who posts enough and with substance, and has been neither ignored nor persecuted by Roa.
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:50 PM   #925
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You answer me well, Diamond; and you understand my point about Azaelia and Glirdan.

Sleepy came crashing into my suspicions with his odd behaviour yesterday. Recall how he accused me of making an evil Freudian slip and then said that it excuses me. Not only was there blatantly no slip from me, but to excuse what he suggested as an evil confession is unacceptable villager behaviour. His vote just there is not explained well and strikes of bandwaggoning (as Diamond points out).

++SLEEPY
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:01 PM   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
Ah it wasn't the brain last time Di but the lungs!
The... lungs? *scratches head*

Anyway, I was referring to this:

Quote:
Please explain Eomer, apparently my brain is not with it.
However, I can understand the frustration with cross posting with the mod and having your post content "outdated" in effect. So on further thought, I suppose the fact that you weren't cautious enough to remain quiet about it speak more in favor than not.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:09 PM   #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenny?
Eonwe the freeloading husband of Lhunardawen: Probably innocent. He frustrates me for the same reason Sleepy does, but to a lesser extent, because this is normal for him.
Well, I understand your frustrations, as I share them at least to some extent. But I assure you, quietness in not my style. It is work that interferes here, not my stratagies.

Anyway, I'll do my best to get on as much as possible and with as much savy analysis as possible, but I can't promise anything.

So I guess from here on out, we return to the regular werewolf game. Except with four wolves.

Here's the thing though. Basically, everybody up till last Night can be considered cobblers, of sorts. So just take any evidence (and trust) that you might have picked up along the way with a grain of salt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eomer
Does no-one else think that this could be a huge hint? i.e. Azaelia and/or Glirdan is furry and fanged?

Don't mean to bring the game into disrepute or anything but I'm trying to work with whatever comes my way.
Yes, it struck me that way, certainly. Though, yes, it does feel a bit underhanded.


Anyway, that's all for now. I'll hopefully be back on before the end of toDay.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:29 PM   #928
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Morm's reaction in his post #889 for Zali's vote for him made me a bit uneasy. I have to go in a minute, so I can't explain that now and therefore I won't vote for him toDay.

As to Lalaith, I find myself agreeing with her on many things. I found her quite suspicious a while ago, but since then the suspicions calmed down, and she speaks much sense. One thing that makes me wonder if she's innocent after all is indeed Roa's analysis, but it might go either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModGod
Players will not be removed from the game for failure to post in a Day or failure to vote.
That certainly changes things a bit. I wouldn't think that it's a clue, though. There may be silent players on both Good and Bad side. Still, due to the new rule, I shall vote for

++Glirdan

because I find silent players who post mostly in character and don't share their own thoughts suspicious.

Good Night!
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:16 PM   #929
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Voting update

Zali for Morm (Morm 1)
Kitanna for Oddwen (Morm 1, Oddwen 1)
Lalaith for Jenny (Morm 1, Oddwen 1, Jenny 1)
Sleepy for Jenny (Morm 1, Oddwen 1, Jenny 2)
Diamond for Lalaith (Morm 1, Oddwen 1, Jenny 2, Lalaith 1)
Eomer for Sleepy (Morm 1, Oddwen 1, Jenny 2, Lalaith 1, Sleepy 1)
Spawn for Glirdan (Morm 1, Oddwen 1, Jenny 2, Lalaith 1, Sleepy 1, Glirdan 1)

*sigh* this is one of those odd days where I really don't know for whom to vote. I have some mild suspicions but nothing concrete. Out of those who have votes Glirdan and Sleepy look guilty and Oddwen to an extent. I'm still not convinced of Diamond's innocence nor of her guilt.
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:34 PM   #930
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Quote:
Anyway, I was referring to this:

Quote:
Please explain Eomer, apparently my brain is not with it.
I hadn't had tea at that point, after a day of hard revision ( ) I need sustenance!

Oh dear, voting time is fast approaching, and I really don't know what I should do. I don't like this Jenny bandwagon, especially since the votes that began it weren't really explained, or explained at all in Sleepy's case.

I can see the point in trying to get rid of those who will be silent over the next few Days, but it's a galling thought that we should waste what little time we have lynching those liable to be innocent but unable to defend themselves.

I think that my vote will probably go to Sleepy. That vote for Jenny was just too, well, random. There seemed to be no thought behind it, no reasoning other than 'it's obvious Roa would have picked her'. Well why is it obvious? There are plenty of people here who know Roa, it isn't a good enough reason.

Whoops, getting cross again. I'm going to make sure I'm seeing this through clear eyes by doing a quick analysis of Sleepy so I know this isn't all down to one vote. I'll be around and back by the deadline.
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:38 PM   #931
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I've just had a nagging feeling about him and I think he's likely to be one of our early wolves. I imagine Roa chose him knowing that he would post very little and therefore avoid suspicion whcih has worked far too well.

++Glirdan
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:41 PM   #932
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++ZALI

Because:
  1. She was suspected of evilness enough by the populace to have been on GW's death list two days running (lists which, combined, have played host to at least three Evils).
  2. She made it onto my final six also.
  3. She was the first voter today (I'm not sure why that bothers me so much, but perhaps because it "vindicates" her from jumping onto a bandwagon).
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:44 PM   #933
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Well, this is certainly going to go down hill for me...like my ancestor from a previous village. Oh well. Not much I can really say in my defense, but it won't hurt to try.

I realise I haven't been posting substantially and up to ususal standards, but that is hardly my fault as I do have that drated time zone illness. However, after my return tomorrow (if I live that far ), I will try and aid the village as much as possible.

Now there was something said earlier about me not giving thoughts of my own. Well, here's one. What of Eomer? When I consulted my books of lore, they revealed to me that Eomer is a rather kiniving and sneaky Wolf and he normally never lives past Day 1. Just that really makes me uneasy. And now he goes and says, and I quote:

Quote:
Does no-one else think that this could be a huge hint? i.e. Azaelia and/or Glirdan is furry and fanged?
Could this be away of his to get rid of two other probable innocents? I don't know, but something about that makes me really uneasy.
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:51 PM   #934
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Gah! I have ten minutes before I have to vote... I'm leaning towards voting Eomer simply because of that little comment (like I said, it makes me uneasy) or possibly my father because he had a rather poor excuse for his vote. Gah!! I'll be back in a minute with my decision.
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:55 PM   #935
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Sleepy:

Day 1:
No posts.

Day 2:
Explain absence on Day 1 was due to illness.
Makes joke about going to see the wizard – perhaps more than a joke?
In character nonsense.

Defends Roa against Fea over her support of Loki – interesting, using history with Roa to support the idea, but mostly defending her by saying Fea should not be trusted just anyway.
Voted Fea.

Day 3:
Again apologises for not being active.
Votes Fea – practically no reasoning, ‘possibly for the previous day’. Possibly? He just turned up and voted. No thought.

Day 4:
Apologises in advance for what will seem an insane or wrong choice – and people pick up on Zali’s apologising but not this?
Votes Roa – claims to know she is evil, could be just in character nonsense, could be the truth.

That's as far as I had time to get. I forgot how many pages this thing was

Anyway, what with the complete lack of even an attempt at valid reasons for votes plus a disastrous attendance record:

++SLEEPY
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Old 05-23-2006, 03:57 PM   #936
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I have come to a decision.

++Sleepy

His vote just seems...odd and not having a proper explanation seems all the more suspicious. Also, he hasn't been overly vocal like he normally is which isn't at all like him if I look back on his ancestory. Could he have been told by my mother to stay quiet?

Anyway, I'm off. I shall see you (hopefully) in two Days time.
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Old 05-23-2006, 04:00 PM   #937
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The Day is now done.

Voting is over.

First results will be forthcoming shortly.

The narrative, however, is probably going to come rather late. Sorry, RL.
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Old 05-23-2006, 04:40 PM   #938
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Day Six Ending

Sleepy Ranger was not born in Sealville. He was of the men of Valandil, King of Arnor, and of the Dúnedain. So when he came to Sealville, calling himself by some odd sounding Elvish name the inhabitants of Sealvilled could not pronounce, they butchered it in their speech, into 'Sleepy'. And he was content. He found himself a wife, Roa, and they had three children, as has been told already: Caranlondien, Glirdan, and Lommy. Sleepy had named that youngest one, and asked what he meant by it, he said that Lommy was to her true name as Sleepy was to his. They raised their brows in confusion, but let it be.

The Ranger household always seemed peaceable enough, though Caranlondien was gone most of the time, and Glirdan was so quietive he might as well have been gone, and Lommy was a little thief, skulking everywhere but home. So the peaceableness may have been accounted to the fact that the Ranger home was usually empty of its children.

What the villagers did not know was that Roa had dug out a special little room that not even her husband knew of, and had decked it according to her wishes, in hopes of one day receiving the benefits of the prophecy. That room was bookshelved floor to ceiling, wall to wall to wall, and lorebooks from far and wide filled those shelves. A single candle lit the little room, standing on a desk big enough for just one book at a time, a single stool before it. Which left plenty of room for the Shadow when it came.

What the villagers did not know was that Sleepy once upon a time discovered this room, and wished that he had not. He loved his wife, though he always feared she did not return his favor, and kept her secret, though he knew he should not.

When the curse came, he refused to know what had happened. He denied himself the knowledge. He cut off such thoughts from his own awareness. And he stayed quiet for most of the days as the curse took its toll. He was greatly saddened by the deaths of his two daughters, and took it upon himself to bury them.

When Gurthang named his wife, Roa, as the evil wizard; worse, when Roa announced it proudly herself, he kept his mouth closed and watched the ensuing battle, betraying little emotion. Truth be told, he had not wholly been able to convince himself that she was not the evil wizard. As he watched the good wizard contort entirely out of human shape, and his wife go up in flames, he felt that his life was done. No, not free; but over. Yes, there was Glirdan who was so taken with mooning over the lass Kath, that Sleepy wondered if he noticed the deaths of all the females in his house.

So when Sleepy cast his vote for Jenny, giving hardly any reason, he supposed that he was perhaps signing his death warrant. And so it turned out to be; by one vote. Three votes to two to two. How fitting, he thought to himself.

Mormegil ordered him to be bound and led to the beech tree. He was trussed up and left there to stand upon the stool, the noose tight around his neck.

"Any last words, Sleepy?" asked Mormegil.

Sleepy Ranger said not a word, but looked upon his son reproachfully.

His son, Glirdan, was ordered to kick the stool out from under him, and Glirdan did so with a flourish, having cast the final vote for his own father.

Sleepy fell, choked, his neck broke, and he died.

"No werewolf there," someone commented.

~ The Tally ~ (6)

Four werewolves
One seer
One hunter

~ The Dead ~ (18)

Elempi, father of Diamond of the Battledore, killed on Night One
Loki the leech collector, lynched on Day One: innocent
The Saucepan Man the barkeep, killed on Night Two: innocent
Nogrod the retired jester, lynched on Day Two: werewolf
the phantom the loud, unpredictable, adventurer: hunter
Naria the servant who empties and cleans chamber pots: werewolf
Celuien the Healer and Cupper, lynched on Day Three: innocent
Lhunardawen the jeweler, committed suicide on Day Three: innocent
Cailín the match maker, mauled by werewolves on Night Four: innocent
Valier the gardener, planted and stoned in her garden on Day Four: werewolf
Firefoot the artist, frenziedly eaten on Night Five: innocent
Nilpaurion the ne'er do well hubby of Dancing Spawn, head almost ripped off by werewolves: innocent
Alcarillo the old retired sea captain, drowned on his boat on Day Five: werewolf
Lommy the little girl who steals other children's candy, broken and consumed on Night Six: innocent
Caranlondien the Sled-Team Driver, skewered and kabobed on Night Six: ranger
Roa Aoife the weaver, burned by fire on Day Six: the evil wizard
Gurthang the stable-hand, contorted by evil magic on Day Six: the good wizard
Sleepy Ranger the former wanderer, lynched on Day Six: innocent

~ The Living ~ (13)

Diamond of the Battledore
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Baker
Kath the minstrel
Glirdan with the giant crush on Kath
Kitanna the beloved of Eomer
Oddwen the filthy, insane street urchin who steals chickens
mormegil the retired mariner and current mayor
Feanor the shepherdess with a love of alliteration
Zali the seamstress and beloved of the phantom
Jenny Hallu the unmarried maiden & aunt
Lalaith the frivolous aunt and guardian of Oddwen
Eonwe the freeloading husband of Lhunardawen
Eomer the adventurer & lover of Kitanna
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Old 05-24-2006, 03:59 PM   #939
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Day Seven Begins

Spawn had always wondered how she'd gotten such a name. Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant, to be exact. What had her parents, may they rest in peace, be thinking? She wondered why they had not at least named her Spawning Dance of Ungoliant, for then at least her handy nickname would have been 'Dance' instead of 'Spawn', which was what everybody called her. Actually, though she would not have minded being called 'Dance', she feared that she would have been expected to bear gobs of little spawns to her hubby Nilpaurion, so she was quite glad that she was a Spawn that danced, even if the horrible Ungoliant of legend was her supposed birth-mother. Which of course was precisely why she had the name, for her mother's name had been Ungoliant, and Spawn considered that she'd been the luckier of the two, for her mother Ungoliant was nothing at all like the horrible creature of legend, but a dear, quiet, soft-spoken woman who had unfortunately passed on ... or maybe fortunately, considering the current situation of Sealville.

Spawn had done her part, as had her husband Nilpaurion, and she was proud of him for being innocent, though dead. She had not been entirely pleased when her eldest son, the now revealed, and dead, Gurthang the Good Wizard, had sadly pronounced her doomed - precisely because she had been fearless and devastating in her analysis of other villagers. So things do go. Maybe it was the family tie that had caused him to speak so.

Mormegil, the gaffer, mayor, and retired mariner, was happy in Sealville. He had lived a full life, married, well, and fathered two eccentric and always interesting daughters, Jenny and Celuien. He was proud of his name, for he knew that it came from a tragic hero from the legends of the first age. He always tried to live up to them. He had not liked the marriage of his younger daughter, Celuien, to that beer toting Saucy, but he did admit that he provided well. Better, he thought, was the choice of Jenny, who refused marriage. He liked her independence.

When the Curse came, he as not entirely happy to lose Saucy on the first Day, for his daughter's sake. But when she was lynched, that cut him to the heart. When his eldest granddaughter was revealed to have been one of those cursed by the evil wizard, he was beside himself - on the inside - until the same happened to him.

Kath was one of the most simply named villagers, and for that she was glad. Her parents, she figured, must have named her in reaction to their own overgrown handles, Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant, and Nilpaurion Felagund. They had hinted at simpler times by naming her older brother Gurthang, but the true simplicity had come to the household with little Kath. Now she was pretty much grown up, and made a livelihood of minstrelsy, always sure to have one person in the audience, Glirdan, who listened to her playing and singing much, watched her even more, and tossed in a little bit of coin each day to pay for his gain. She bore this patiently, wondering when he would either lose interest or gain enough to finally meet with rejection, for there was no way she was going to have anything to do with that Ranger family; they were an odd bunch, their father a stranger from Arnor and all.

When the Curse had come to Sealville, Kath had been filled with trepidation and feared for her life. When her father Nilpaurion had turned out to be the seer, she was proud; but sad when he had been killed. When her brother Gurthang had been revealed as the Good Wizard himself, she almost burst with pride, for her family had never before been accounted as much in the village, and here they were the virtual saviors of the living. She hoped for the best.

Two werewolves entered the bedroom of Spawn through the window, and found only the bed empty. They swept the room with their feral gaze and did not find her. They crept back outside. One of them felt a sudden weight on its back, and felt a dagger at its throat, sawing at its throttle. The other werewolf turned and pounced upon the first werewolf's attacker and tore into her. For it was Spawn. She was relentless and even as she felt the pain of new deep scars across her back, she ripped at the throat of the werewolf she had attacked. The werewolf she was attacking died first. Spawn died soon after. The still living werewolf flayed deep, deep into her back, so deep that he reached through her ribcage from behind and wrenched her heart free, to show as a prize to the Shadow in hopes of being made the new evil wizard.

Two werewolves entered the other occupied bedroom in the Felagund house, and found Kath asleep, and dreaming. There was a pleasant look on her face. One of the werewolves tapped her on the shoulder. She woke up. Her eyes went wide with fright. The other werewolf clapped a fanged hand over her mouth before she could scream. The first werewolf ripped through her neck and killed her. Then both werewolves began playing a game of 'splash the walls', leaving bits of flesh and spatters of blood all over all the walls with each rip into the body with their sweeping, flaying arms. It was not long before the heart was visible. They took it, and made sure to pluck out her eyes as well, to bring to the Shadow.

The Shadow was most pleased, for three more villagers had died this night.

Spawn, her back gone and the stones beneath her stained with her blood, sat atop Mormegil, whose throat had been sawn so deep that his head was almost clean off his shoulders.

Next to them lay the flayed and blinded remains of Kath.

~ The Tally ~ (3)

Three werewolves
No Gifteds

~ The Dead ~ (18)

Elempi, father of Diamond of the Battledore, killed on Night One
Loki the leech collector, lynched on Day One: innocent
The Saucepan Man the barkeep, killed on Night Two: innocent
Nogrod the retired jester, lynched on Day Two: werewolf
the phantom the loud, unpredictable, adventurer: hunter
Naria the servant who empties and cleans chamber pots: werewolf
Celuien the Healer and Cupper, lynched on Day Three: innocent
Lhunardawen the jeweler, committed suicide on Day Three: innocent
Cailín the match maker, mauled by werewolves on Night Four: innocent
Valier the gardener, planted and stoned in her garden on Day Four: werewolf
Firefoot the artist, frenziedly eaten on Night Five: innocent
Nilpaurion the ne'er do well hubby of Dancing Spawn, head almost ripped off by werewolves: innocent
Alcarillo the old retired sea captain, drowned on his boat on Day Five: werewolf
Lommy the little girl who steals other children's candy, broken and consumed on Night Six: innocent
Caranlondien the Sled-Team Driver, skewered and kabobed on Night Six: ranger
Roa Aoife the weaver, burned by fire on Day Six: the evil wizard
Gurthang the stable-hand, contorted by evil magic on Day Six: the good wizard
Sleepy Ranger the former wanderer, lynched on Day Six: innocent
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Baker, flayed through the back on Night Seven: hunter
Kath the minstrel: flayed where she lay on Night Seven: seer
mormegil the retired mariner and current mayor: virtually beheaded by the Hunter on Night Seven: werewolf

~ The Living ~ (10)

Diamond of the Battledore
Glirdan with the giant crush on Kath
Kitanna the beloved of Eomer
Oddwen the filthy, insane street urchin who steals chickens
Feanor the shepherdess with a love of alliteration
Zali the seamstress and beloved of the phantom
Jenny Hallu the unmarried maiden & aunt
Lalaith the frivolous aunt and guardian of Oddwen
Eonwe the freeloading husband of Lhunardawen
Eomer the adventurer & lover of Kitanna
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:11 PM   #940
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O splendid, clever Spawn! So Mormegil had been cursed after all. And thanks to Spawn we are down to just one death a night now, so all is not lost.
But it just goes to show how wrong I was. I thought Eomer was the Seer and Morm might possibly be the Hunter. I don't know whom to trust now, I'm going to have to reassess a lot of things.
I don't have time to post much now, it's bedtime. But I would ask everyone this. When you are hunting for wolves, think carefully about *when* you think your suspect became a wolf. It's no good saying, oh, so-and-so has been suspicious from the start.
This order of wolves being created was the theory Roa tried hardest to pooh-pooh when she did her analysis of me. But more later.
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:18 PM   #941
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And one other thing. I'm feeling really most uncomfortable with Eomer.
I assumed from Caran's guarding, that he was the Seer. If he were innocent, this is what the wolves would also probably have assumed. So he should by rights be dead. But he's not.
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:23 PM   #942
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I'm not at all comfortable with Eomer of the Rohirrim. I feel like I'm going to die in my sleep every time I think of the kilted adventurer.

Still, I have no freaking clue what to do right now. Where to even start with post analysis? I don't know when people became lupine, so I don't know what's suspicious and what's not. *is going slowly insane*

edit: cross-posted
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:52 PM   #943
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Excellent hunting, Spawn! I KNEW IT! I knew Morm was evil. I just couldn't pin him down, make a case against him, vote with solid reasoning, etc. Which annoyed me to no end, but luckily Spawn was not hampered by anything of the sort!

Still, things are looking badly. Kath, our seer, died without getting to tell us who she dreamt of. We're down to ten people, and three are evil. That's bad odds. Bad, bad, odds. Not impossible odds, though....

I still don't trust Lalaith. Her point about Eomer is very interesting. Very interesting indeed. But isn't it interesting that she came right out of the blocks with it?

Here's what I know, but I find it interesting: Gurthang gifted his entire family. I almost wonder if the wolves saw that he'd gifted his father and took a chance betting that he'd gifted his mother and sister as well? This could explain Eomer's continued life if he's innocent. Savvy werewolves reading Gurthang's mind correctly could have gone after Spawn and Kath for no other reason than their relation to Gurthang.

I have a feeling Roa is the sort to totally ignore family connections when cursing. Just a hunch. Still, I feel a bit like laying off Glirdan, since there's always the chance she avoided cursing people connected to her, even by the tenuous character link. We already know that Sleepy, Lommy, and Caran were innocent, anyway. I think there's a good chance she avoided Glirdan, too.

Yesterday's voting may not be able to tell us much, since in theory none of the wolves yet knew each other. (Though it's possible, and the fact that Roa pooh-poohed my theory about them knowing each other kind of renews my faith in it.)

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts later, that's just my off-the-cuff thinking.
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Old 05-24-2006, 04:59 PM   #944
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...stunned silence...

Morm was a wolf? Well my faith in everything is completely shattered. I thought he was innocent, luckily our hunter saw through that. That's pretty good, both our hunters bagged wolves, I applaud that. Well done indeed.

Quote:
Lalaith=
I assumed from Caran's guarding, that he was the Seer. If he were innocent, this is what the wolves would also probably have assumed. So he should by rights be dead. But he's not.
I don't know how I feel about jumping on that sort of point (not just for Eomer, but for anyone). Such things smell like set-ups to me.
But I will say, now that we know Morm was a wolf, that it's interesting Morm went after Eomer so much one day, and then sort of let his whole case drop. He said he was satisfied with Eomer's defense, but it all seems a little fishy now. I thought Morm was the seer and Eomer his dream. Wrong again.

I don't have much time now to look into it, but I'll take a look at Eomer after Morm stopped accusing him. But I'd also really like to take a look at Eonwe, Glirdan, and Oddwen today. They've all really flown under the radar and it worries me.

So, I'll return in a few hours with what I've found in Eomer, Eonwe, Glirdan, and Oddwen's post.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:47 AM   #945
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I take your point, Lalaith; but maybe the wolves thought I was the Hunter and that's why they did not attack me. After all, the wolves could have won it today but the village has been saved thanks completely to our Hunter, Spawn. Yesterday, Spawn suspected Mormegil at the close of day — they obviously thought that she was not the Hunter.

Morm being a wolf does not surprise me too much. He didn't seem as resolute in his convictions as he usually is.
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Old 05-25-2006, 02:56 AM   #946
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Glirdan, as to your suspicions of me from yesterday, my point wasn't an attempt to get rid of two possible innocents. I'll explain it a bit better. The game mechanics changed because of you and Azaelia. That struck me as important and possibly indicates that one or both of you are wolves. You two are at the top of my suspicion list today.

(Azaelia won't be here today, is that right?)
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Old 05-25-2006, 05:14 AM   #947
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While Spawn's hunt gave us a chance of victory, we are still in pretty dire straits, I think. This is because, out of the ten villagers that remain alive, five are, shall we say, the "strong, silent type." I include Jenny in this list as she has been uncharacteristically quiet.
[RL] I did feel a bit bad voting for you Jen, the day after your 21st - not a very nice birthday present, I know. But wolves can have birthdays like other folk...A very happy key to the door, anyway [/RL]
If, as I believe, the majority of silent or near-silent ones are innocent, the wolves - two of which I think are among the vocal villagers - can use this to their advantage and outvote and outnumber the innocents who are active and posting.

So, please, quiet innocents, try to participate a bit more. We cannot win this without you.

What I will do now is go through the wolf deaths and creations again, to try to get a handle on when our remaining wolves might have been cursed.
Back soon.
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Old 05-25-2006, 05:23 AM   #948
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*Of course Glirdan and Azaelia won't be here today, Aimé, that's the instigating factor in your suspicion of them.*

There are two options as far as I'm concerned (because I know something crucial about me):

1) The wolves genuinely didn't pick up on this Caranlondien-guarding-me-clue.

2) The wolves saw how wrong I was and decided that I couldn't be the Seer. I never had any real suspicion of Roa, whereas Spawn actually voted for her and said she looked EW-ish. If this is true, then I must conclude that Diamond is innocent, considering that I went after her at the start of yesterday.

There's also the reason Kath was killed. She didn't voice suspicions of Roa at all the day before she dreamed of her. So the wolves apparently got lucky with that kill. Why then would Kath be killed? Beats me.

I must admit that if any of you were in my position I'd be attacking you. At least, if you do lynch me, you'll know that those are the two options.

Oh well, exam time. Concentration levels will not be optimum.
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:10 AM   #949
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Yes, Lalaith, I have been quieter than usual. I attribute this mostly to three things: Last week was crazy-busy, my husband has been sick since Saturday night, and for some reason my internet at home hasn't been working.

It is really frustrating that both gifteds were killed last night, because my first move this morning was to be a push for them to reveal. 3 known innocents would have really helped our chances...and now there are no known innocents...

So...if you are a wolf, consider this a kick in the shin. Drat!

So...now we have three wolves and no idea who they are. Well, we have ideas. I think Kitanna is a wolf. She was accused a few days ago of quiet, and suddenly came up with all these analyses. I've thought her a wolf for three days and no one has listened. Zali still worries me. Come on, folks, she's been on a top suspect list for days! If she's that suspicious how does she keep charming her way out of lynching? And for a third...Lalaith? Eonwe? Diamond or Fea pulling a huge bluff? Roa would not be above picking one of those two...honestly, that last one would be a pin-the-tail on the donkey guess. But I am definitely worried about Kitanna and Zali.

I don't think Eomer is a wolf. Honestly, going after Spawn and Kath makes sense to me. Kath was quiet and under the radar, but when she did speak she was very clear, very helpful, and her analyses have been good. Someone should go back and see if we can get any hints of who she may have dreamed of last night, just to see where her suspicions were. And didn't she have a dream the night before?

Spawn, however, I already thought was gifted...look at the hints she dropped that she would be looking at Morm in the future. Perhaps the wolves thought she was the Seer, rather than Kath.

And the related-to-Gurthang pattern, now it's been pointed out, is really obvious.



I'm not really sure where to go with schtuff today. Going to sit back and see if discussion today brings up any brainwaves. And maybe do some of the work I'm technically here for.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:01 AM   #950
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Looking at Kath's posts from yesterday I don't think she dreamt of a wolf. The only person she seemed convinced of was Spawn and she's gone too. Everyone else was a "could be guilty, a good choice" or "possibly innocent based on this fact." And then she voted for Sleepy. I'd think if she had dreamt of a wolf she would have voted for him/her.

Quote:
Glirdan=
I'm afraid to say that I shall be going on a little trip for two days or so (that would be the next [possible] four days in RL)
Glirdan explains that he will be gone from the game for two days. I'd say at this point if he wasn't a wolf Roa wasn't going to change him into one until he had gotten back (if at all).

Eonwe didn't show up at all on Day Two. I say he'd be a bad choice for Roa, but not terrible. I say not terrible mainly because his silence would help him stay off people's suspects lists. Obviously he'd be a bad choice because if he's not around during the Day he's probably not going to be around at night.
Quote:
Eonwe=
Yeah, about that. A surprise visit from the Grandparents has somewhat certailed my Werewolfing activities.
Finally an explanation for his absence.

Now I lean to an innocent Eonwe, but I'm not convinced. Roa could have picked him because he had been silent and no one was paying much attention to him. Eventually she would have learned of her error when Eonwe was not around for days at a time. I'd say it's highly unlikely, but anything is possible.

Glirdan became rather active again the Day before Roa's death. He could have been made the sixth wolf. If Roa thought he was going to be active again she could have cursed him because Glirdan was suspected, but usually he just sort of flew under the radar. However Roa tended to stay away from her family and Glirdan was her son.

So far she's cursed two from Morm's line (Morm and Naria), one from the Fea/Valier line (Valier), one from Alcarillo's line (Alcarillo), and one from lmp's line (Nogrod). And then Loki who was from no family. I think she was trying to get one from each line. So far Gurthang's is clean ('cause of Gurthang no doubt) and Lalaith and Oddwen's family line is unproven. Makes me suspect Oddwen just a little more and it calls Lalaith to my attention.

I've voiced my suspicions of Oddwen and I continue to think she should be looked at by everyone.

As for Glirdan and Eonwe: I say Eonwe is probably innocent. I say Glirdan could easily go either way.

And finally Morm suspected Eomer heavily at the start of Day Two (I believe), but as the day progressed he let his suspicions drop. He began to see Eomer as an innocent, though there was always a slight hint of suspicion. So what does that mean?
1) Morm was a wolf at that point and was trying to get an innocent lynched, but during the day he guessed Eomer was a wolf. Assuming Roa revealed to the wolves before she died later on Morm confirmed Eomer was a wolf.
2) Morm was not a wolf at the time and he truly thought Eomer was a wolf, but he believed Eomer's defense and so on and gave him the benefit of the doubt.
3) Morm was a wolf and was trying to build up Eomer as the EW or a wolf and then changed his stand on Eomer, but with enough doubt about him to have Eomer lynched. Then if Eomer died an innocent Morm could do what he does so well and convince us he was innocent of getting Eomer.

I lean to 1 or 3 being the most possible scenarios for why Morm left Eomer alone after his intial attack on him.

Be back in a few hours with a vote.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:09 AM   #951
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Here is a pocket history of our village. I've spent way too much time on this today, I just hope someone else finds it useful.

Day One: Two wolves
Nogrod is just behind the lynched Loki in the voting. Would Noggie have been made a wolf by the EW after this? Very unlikely. So he must surely have been a Day One wolf. Naria posted a lot (for her) on Day One. She also voted for Nogrod. What does that mean? Was she an original, or a Night Two/Three wolf?
Night two:
A new wolf is cursed, and the wolves kill Saucie.
Nilp is made seer but doesn’t dream.
Day Two: Three wolves
Oddwen has six votes to Noggie’s 11. Incidently, two wolves (if Naria was already a wolf) voted for Oddwen. Probably a coincidence, of course. But nonetheless, with so much suspicion on her, Oddwen would be an unlikely choice for wolfing on Night Three.
Wolf-Nogrod – is lynched. And while I can’t pretend I’ve re-read through the early days, just take a look at something that caught my eye in his post 333. “Sorry Roa, I'm doing this again. But I really want to see, if I should still try to fight for myself - or try to help you a bit before I go.” So clearly Roa did reveal her identity to her wolves. Don’t know if that helps….
Night three –
A wolf is created.
Phantom is made hunter, the wolves vote to kill him, LMP has him kill Wolf-Naria, who wanted him dead.
Nilp dreams of Cailin.

Day Three: Two wolves
Eomer-3, Azaelia-4, Alcarillo-2, Fea-1, Roa-2, Valier-3, Celuien-5
This is the day Valier goes beserk after Roa.
We lynch Celuien.
Would Roa risk wolfing Zali, Valier or Eomer the following night? I’m starting to wonder if she might not have taken the risk with Val, given that she had three wolves given to her.

Night four:
Roa has clearly complained to LMP and is given the right to create three new wolves.
Two wolves are created, while Nilp is ungifted by Roa’s curse.
Gurthang makes Spawn his hunter.
Nilp dreams of Firefoot.
The wolves try to kill Gurthang, and succeed in killing Cailin.

Day Four: Four wolves.
Gurthang reveals himself, as does Nilp.
Gurthang gives us a hit-list: Zali, Roa, Valier and Eomer. Roa and Diamond both make a fuss.
Valier continues to act weird and we lynch her for it. Roa votes for her because “she’s the only one on the list who’s even mildly suspicious.” Alcarillo gives the first vote for Roa. Was he a wolf at this point?

At one point during the voting, Roa posts this:
Just to sum up

Zali - 3
Valier - 5
Roa - 3
Eomer - 1

Votes so far - 12
Votes remaining - 10
Left to vote: Valier, Zali, Eomer, Caran, Glirdan (where is he?), Sleepy, Kitanna, Oddwen, Lal, Eonwe (see Glirdan)
Time Left - 3 hours, 5 minutes

Now, this is a very significant post, I think. I believe that here she was calling on some of her wolves, reminding them to get voting. She may be reminding them Glirdan and Eonwe probably aren’t around. She knew that Valier obviously had to vote for her (Roa) for the bluff to keep working. There must have been other wolves on that list. I know it’s not me, we all know it’s not Caran or Sleepy. That leaves a lot of those still alive now: Eomer, Zali, Glirdan, Kitanna, Oddwen, Eonwe.
Now, Kitanna comes in to vote for Zali. That actually does makes her look quite good.
Then I come and vote Valier. I think this does make me look suspicious, it’s a “save Roa” vote, but I know I’m innocent.
Zali comes in and more or less asks people to vote for her. She also votes for Alcarillo, out of the blue.
Eomer votes for Valier.
Sleepy and Caran, subsequently proved innocent, both vote for Roa.

Night Five
Another wolf is created. This wolf is sure to be fairly random as Roa would not know how Gurthang’s lynch list would work, and if she would be on it again.
The wolves kill Nilp and Firefoot.
Gurthang makes Kath his seer but she fails to dream.

Day Five - four wolves
Gurthang, in consultation with Kath and Spawn, gives us the following:
Alcarillo, Azaelia, Feanor, Kitanna

From the voting, it is clear that Roa is trying to save Alc at Fea’s expense. Which makes me think that Fea was probably innocent at this point.
We lynch Alcarillo, he is a wolf.
Night Six.
Another wolf is created. This I think will be an “alpha wolf.” Gurthang makes Caran his ranger. She protects Eomer.
Kath dreams of Roa and discovers her to be the EW.
Lommy and Caran are both killed by wolves.

Day Six - Four wolves
The wizards duel and die. We lynch Sleepy who is innocent.
Night Seven
The wolves kill Spawn and Kath, and Spawn takes out wolf-Morm.

Day Seven - three wolves
When was Morm cursed? Was Alcarillo an early wolf as I have previously asserted? I’m starting to wonder…
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:16 AM   #952
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Right, reading through my own notes I can't see how Zali was a wolf, at least not on Day Four. Roa (who seems to have revealed herself to her wolves if Noggie's post is anything to go by) has given the sign to vote for Valier, and she has also asked her wolves to save her. Zali's random Alcarillo vote therefore looks pretty good to me.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:45 AM   #953
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And finally...something that caught my eye in one of Jenny's posts yesterDay.
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Honestly, I think most of the reason I was not picked is that Roa and I tend to bicker.
Really? Can I just say two words to you: Nogrod. Valier.

It seems to me that this is exactly what Roa did with people she had a tendency to bicker with - she got them onside by cursing them. So, another reason I'm suspecting you still, Jenny....not to mention That Mistress Diamond.
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:04 AM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eomer
Does no-one else think that this could be a huge hint? i.e. Azaelia and/or Glirdan is furry and fanged?
I think that's rather close to 'getting clues from the narrative', I don't think LMP would be that forward. So no, really.

Morm's last post yesterDay was really funky, I would probably have jumped on that toDay. Or, poked at it or something.

'kay. ToDay is likely the first day that the Wolves know who each other are. So, this is almost like a Day One, only with more to go on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Lal
Night Six.
Another wolf is created. This I think will be an “alpha wolf.”
I suspect this "alpha wolf" could have been Morm. His posting yesterday was almost, well, I don't know how to say it, "Desperate to take it somewhere"? "Relief at finally knowing something concrete"? Umm, darn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MormeWolf
Diamond to answer about my position on Kath, if you wish I have well over 10 lore books with people very similar to us crossing paths multiple times and they always seem to end up suspecting each other. So I've resigned myself to always think her evil though seldom do much about it only when I have a really strong feeling that she is. Kath would agree with me on this point.
Did they kill Kath to make Morm look guilty (not Wolfishly guilty but "oh no, poor Kath I wish I hadn't said that, I'll regret this for the rest of my innocent life" gulty)?



And allow me one silly moment -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitanna
So, I'll return in a few hours with what I've found in Eomer, Eonwe, Glirdan, and Oddwen's post.
Surely, we've been more active than that!
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Last edited by Oddwen; 05-25-2006 at 09:09 AM. Reason: x'd w/ aunt lal's last post
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Old 05-25-2006, 09:31 AM   #955
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More silliness

Quote:

Really? Can I just say two words to you: Nogrod. Valier.

It seems to me that this is exactly what Roa did with people she had a tendency to bicker with - she got them onside by cursing them. So, another reason I'm suspecting you still, Jenny....not to mention That Mistress Diamond.
But they bicker with everybody...

Maybe my attempt to rescue my pride is completely off and I wasn't picked because Roa thought I'd be a bad wolf.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:17 AM   #956
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Gah! Oddwen: it's not 'getting clues from the narrative' at all. It's noting that the rules were modified mid-game and wondering what could be so significant as to allow for that.

So few people are willing to entertain this notion. Why?
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:25 AM   #957
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Because I can't bring myself to think that LMP would do anything to compromise the integrity of the game whether for balance or not. To change the rules in the middle because one team might lose? *shakes head*
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:31 AM   #958
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Suit yourself.

I'm going to go with one of my theories and say that Diamond is innocent. If she was a wolf and was wondering whether I was the Seer or not, because of the Caran thing, she wouldn't have allowed her team to take that chance (considering Kath was an apparent 'random').

Oh, and all this talk of so-and-so being helpful, we're as helpful as our natures allow us. Some people call huge analyses helpful; I don't because I can't make too much sense of a huge number of posts presented in such a way. We all find different things helpful; and everyone, villager and wolf alike, wants to appear helpful.
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Old 05-25-2006, 10:41 AM   #959
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Ok, that looks bad and it's not at all what I mean. I've modded a game before and I could tell you about all the things that went wrong in that. I'm not questioning anyone's integrity, all I'm doing is suggesting that something was altered in the interests of overall fairness in the game, and to keep the WW spirit alive.

Issues of fairness collide. What if the wolves were killed off on a technicality? How fair is that for the EW? The game is forever evolving.

But I didn't at all mean to offend. So sorry if anyone took it personally, ok?
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Old 05-25-2006, 11:01 AM   #960
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I said before that I thought we were dealing with night four onwards wolves. But here's an alternative scenario that's worth thinking about.
Night one: Nogrod, Naria.
Night two: ?
Night three: ?
Night four: Valier, ?
I now wonder if Roa cursed Valier after Valier first went after her, and then told Val to just carry on.
Night five: Alcarillo (because he voted for her off the short-list the day before?)
Night six: Mormegil

So now I'm thinking maybe one night two, one night three and one night four wolf. Sigh. It would be so much easier to have no original wolves left, much less material to go over.
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