Pengolodh - is it his name?

[Aran e-Godhellim]

Hi, I looked around for a thread on this, but couldn't find one.

My question is, should we actually use the name "Pengolodh" for the last of the Lambengolmar?

The reason I ask is because in one of his later writings, Tolkien wrote that "Pengolodh" was to be replaced by "Thingódhel." This change actually makes sense in light of its context in the "Quendi and Eldar" essay.

Etymologically, "Pengolodh" seems to mean (somewhat freely) "one who has wisdom with words," or "the Noldo of words." (As a note, this means it was likely an epesse.) The "golodh" is obviously the same form as the Sindarin word for "Noldo." However, in "Quendi and Eldar" Tolkien states that the form "Golodh" was used almost exclusively in Doriath, and never among Feanor's sons or their allies. This throws its use in Pengolodh's name into question.

Also, in the same essay, Tolkien states unequivocally that the common name for one of the Noldor was "Gódhel." Therefore, "Thingódhel" would mean "Grey-Noldo," a fitting title. (Though perhaps it should be spelt with the Latin "þ," as Professor Tolkien was apt to do.)

[Aiwendil]

Greetings, Aran. Thanks for bringing this point up. I don't have HoMe at hand now, so perhaps you can remind us where the proposed name 'Thingodhel' appears? Is it in 'Quendi and Eldar' itself? It's been a little while since I've read that.

[Aran e-Godhellim]

It's mentioned in one of the notes to "Quendi and Eldar." Apparently, Tolkien wrote on the margin of the document that Pengolodh was to be changed to Thingódhel.

Thanks for the welcome!

[Aiwendil]

Indeed, it seems pretty clear from this note that 'Pengolodh' must be changed to 'Thingódhel' unless some later source can be found to contradict this.

A possible contradiction may perhaps be found in 'Danweth Pengolodh'. Now, 'Danweth Pengolodh' itself was written sometime between 1951 and 1959, with CT preferring an earlier date to a later one; 'Quendi and Eldar' on the other hand is from 1959-1960. So the 'Thingodhel' suggestion almost certainly post-dates 'Danweth Pengolodh' itself. However, CT notes that the text was enclosed in a newspaper dated 5 January 1960 on which Tolkien wrote 'Two items from the lore of Pengoloð'. So we do have a use of the name Pengoloð that could post-date 'Thingodhel'.

[Aiwendil]

I just found this in the 'Cirdan' text given in 'Last Writings' in HoMe XII:

Pengoloð alone mentions a tradition among the Sindar of Doriath that it was in archaic form Nōwē, the original meaning of which was uncertain, as was that of Olwë.

So we do have an instance of 'Pengoloð' post-dating the 'Thingodhel' note. Probably, at the time he wrote this Tolkien had completely forgotten the change to 'Thingodhel'; nonetheless, I think that in light of this we should retain 'Pengoloð'.

[Aran e-Godhellim]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Indeed, it seems pretty clear from this note that 'Pengolodh' must be changed to 'Thingódhel' unless some later source can be found to contradict this.

A possible contradiction may perhaps be found in 'Danweth Pengolodh'. Now, 'Danweth Pengolodh' itself was written sometime between 1951 and 1959, with CT preferring an earlier date to a later one; 'Quendi and Eldar' on the other hand is from 1959-1960. So the 'Thingodhel' suggestion almost certainly post-dates 'Danweth Pengolodh' itself. However, CT notes that the text was enclosed in a newspaper dated 5 January 1960 on which Tolkien wrote 'Two items from the lore of Pengoloð'. So we do have a use of the name Pengoloð that could post-date 'Thingodhel'.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I just found this in the 'Cirdan' text given in 'Last Writings' in HoMe XII:

So we do have an instance of 'Pengoloð' post-dating the 'Thingodhel' note. Probably, at the time he wrote this Tolkien had completely forgotten the change to 'Thingodhel'; nonetheless, I think that in light of this we should retain 'Pengoloð'.

I tend to disagree. I'd say this most likely means that Tolkien simply forgot the note on 'Thingódhel.' Pengoloð was the form he had used for decades, and he probably wrote it out of habit. I would advocate adopting Thingódhel because even if Tolkien hadn't given us a name, his statements in "Quendi and Eldar" throw the element 'golodh' in Pendolodh's name into doubt, as I said earlier. And Thingódhel fits perfectly his description as the child of a Noldo and a grey-elf, as the name literally means 'Grey-Noldo.'

To retain the element 'golodh,' we would have to somehow reconcile it to the statements in "Quendi and Eldar." It's much simpler in my opinion to simply accept the new form as correct, and say Tolkien forgot what he had written, which he often did. (Much to our chagrin!)

Still, my argument is far from bullet-proof.