**RotK - Sam (Sean Astin)**

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But I don't think that Sean Astin was particularly amazing - given the source material, how could anyone possibly have done a bad job? In fact, I would think that a more accomplished actor sticking closer to the original could have been even better.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As to the "how could anyone possibly do a bad job?" part, have you seen the Ralph Bashki cartoon LOTR? Sam is by far the scariest character. He's absolutely disturbing. Which is a sad thing for me to say about my Sam, but it's true. If you truly believe that since LOTR is a great book, anyone can make a great movie out of it, watching the cartoon should cure you of it (that said, though, don't watch the cartoon if you don't want to be saddened and perturbed at its awfulness). <P>Secondly, if you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by "sticking closer to the original", and who do you view as a "more accomplished actor" who could have played the role better? Where do you see changes in Sam's character? Because I didn't notice any that I can think of, and certainly not in ROTK. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Tolkien's view that Sam is the true hero of the story shines out in Astin's performance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah, that it does. Which brings up an interesting point: It has been said by the various people involved in LOTR that they tried to make FOTR and TTT Frodo-centric. Which is all well and good. But I had expected them to make ROTK more Sam-centric, especially because of the shift of focus in the books. I don't really feel that they did, though. We really got to see Sam shine in ROTK, but the focus still seemed to remain on Frodo, at least more than I thought it would. Do you all agree, or is it just me?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I loved the part at the end, where he kisses Rosie, and then turns and smiles radiantly at all the people at the wedding. After witnessing all his travails in the beginning, I nearly shed tears of joy when I saw that. His eyes dancing and sparkling with 100% happiness, and the fact that all of his wishes finally came true really really touched me. I could feel a glow start up inside me when I looked into his glowing eyes. It was just so amazing! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have to totally agree with that. Sam and Rosie's wedding is amazing. They're so cute together.

[Reg Pither]

I have indeed seen the cartoon, and would respectfully suggest that it doesn't count as an actor's performance.

[Lathriel]

AGREED!!!!!<BR>The cartoon is a sad version of LOTR.

[Teleri]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "I would think that a more accomplished actor sticking closer to the original could have been even better."<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't really know what you mean by that. A bad, or even average, actor could easily make Sam laughable. <BR>As for sticking to the origional, that wasn't Sean Astin's fault, was it?

[Arathiriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But I don't think that Sean Astin was particularly amazing - given the source material, how could anyone possibly have done a bad job? In fact, I would think that a more accomplished actor sticking closer to the original could have been even better.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Um I am sorry but I honestly don't see how another actor could have given us a better portrayal of Sam! <P>I found Sean Astin's performance to be the most touching, most <B>real</B> performance of the entire movie - I mean he just <B>shines</B> in RoTK and I don't think I will ever say otherwise!

[Kalimac]

Reg - to be honest, I think that that may be the best indicator yet that Astin's performance was excellent - the fact that it's possible to look at it and say "Well, of course he would be good - what other way would it have been possible for him to act?" He got into Sam's skin so well that it seemed like he was being carried along for the ride as much as the audience was, but that wasn't the case. <P>This was a very good acting job, especially considering the occasional awkwardness of the script, where lines like "I thought I'd lost you" and "Don't you leave him, Samwise Gamgee," or that Osgiliath speech (grr!) if not dreadful in themselves, could easily be made into very bad laughs by an actor who hammed it up or tried to play up the Sam the Simpleton aspect of the thing too much. Sam spends a lot of time, even in the books, as a sort of understated comic relief; his heroic and intelligent aspects don't really start blazing out until the end of TTT, but they are there in FOTR, just easy to miss at first glance because they're often so funny at the same time. If Astin had decided to go for pure bumbling laughs at the beginning, Sam's transformation post-Fellowship-breakup would have been very hard to believe, or worse yet it may never have happened (imagine a comic pratfall on Sauron's Road. Yes, it could have been that bad). <P>Just my $0.02 - hope it makes sense.

[Lyta_Underhill]

Just a quick note before I must dash off to bed:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But I had expected them to make ROTK more Sam-centric, especially because of the shift of focus in the books. I don't really feel that they did, though. We really got to see Sam shine in ROTK, but the focus still seemed to remain on Frodo, at least more than I thought it would. Do you all agree, or is it just me?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I would suggest that ROTK gave me more of an idea of what it would be like to be Sam, simply because of the focus on Frodo; it is just as Sam's focus would have been, excepting the redone parts that separated them in Shelob's Lair. I found myself understanding Sam better when I saw the effects of the long journey and burden on Frodo. I can say this for the movies; it was a new door to open; I stepped closer to both Frodo AND Sam in those last parts in Mordor. To see Frodo telling Sam about this basically untellable state he is in and to watch Sam gather his last strength in response resonated deeply and I found myself understanding the "hardness" that Sam developed near the end of the Quest and how he could not perhaps deal mentally with the implications of that fact that Frodo is falling apart before his eyes and he MUST do something physically--that leads to his "I can carry you" lines. This scene really brings home the blind hopeless state of things and I can feel the bond between Frodo and Sam intensely here. I cannot say it is a Sean Astin triumph or an Elijah Wood triumph of acting skill; here they blend so well as to transcend any polarity in such comparison. Thus, you cannot have Frodo without Sam, nor Sam without Frodo. Who knows how it would have gone with different actors? I can only be glad that Sean and Elijah were so well matched for this fine moment!<P>Cheers!<BR>Lyta

[Arathiriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Who knows how it would have gone with different actors? I can only be glad that Sean and Elijah were so well matched for this fine moment! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, <B>ITA</B>!<P>When I saw FOTR, especially the end, I knew PJ and company did a good job when they casted Elijah and Sean in their respectives roles - that feeling grew with TTT - and by ROTK I honestly cannot see any other 2 actors playing out those scenes as well as they did!<P>Through the entire movie I waited for the Mt. Doom scenes to say nothing of the Grey Havens seen and I was <B>not</B> disappointed as the acting from both end got me to crying, especially Sean's!<P>Oh yes, I will continue to say it: No other could have done such a find job of portraying my Sam as Sean Astin and I only hope he will get the recognition he deserves by the Academy Awards!<p>[ 4:00 AM December 31, 2003: Message edited by: Arathiriel ]

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I found Sean Astin's performance to be the most touching, most real performance of the entire movie - I mean he just shines in RoTK and I don't think I will ever say otherwise!<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Agreed.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I stepped closer to both Frodo AND Sam in those last parts in Mordor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good point. I can very easily say that they are the characters I understand most and like best, in fact, I might venture to say that in an indirect way many aspects of my experiences and character are closest to theirs. Looking at it that way, I suppose it's best that they did it the way they did- actually closer to the book way than I realized at first- seeing Frodo through Sam's eyes, and thus gaining a better understanding of them both. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Thus, you cannot have Frodo without Sam, nor Sam without Frodo. Who knows how it would have gone with different actors? I can only be glad that Sean and Elijah were so well matched for this fine moment! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> I can't imagine anyone different, either. It just doesn't work. At all. I think the combination of Sean and Elijah is the best in the movie, and all of their ROTK scenes are superb, indeed, the highlights of the film for me. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Through the entire movie I waited for the Mt. Doom scenes to say nothing of the Grey Havens seen and I was not disappointed as the acting from both end got me to crying, especially Sean's!<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree once again (that's just about all I do on this thread ). These parts are my favorites in both the book and the movie. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> No other could have done such a find job of portraying my Sam as Sean Astin and I only hope he will get the recognition he deserves by the Academy Awards!<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope so, too, and have for a long while. I think there's the chance of a nomination for Best Supporting Actor (although I think he might qualify as just plain Actor, but Supporting fits). I doubt he'll win, though. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic (which is highly likely). But in the past the Academy has passed over lots of excellent films and performances for ones that they like better, and somehow I think they don't like LOTR all that much. Even a nomination would be an honor, though, and not winning fits the role of Sam for me, though, because for most of the journey (and, even, debatably, at the end) he was somewhat of an unsung hero. But that's just my romantic ideals coming forward again, I think.

[Eruwen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I hope so, too, and have for a long while. I think there's the chance of a nomination for Best Supporting Actor (although I think he might qualify as just plain Actor, but Supporting fits). I doubt he'll win, though. Maybe I'm just being pessimistic (which is highly likely). But in the past the Academy has passed over lots of excellent films and performances for ones that they like better, and somehow I think they don't like LOTR all that much. Even a nomination would be an honor, though, and not winning fits the role of Sam for me, though, because for most of the journey (and, even, debatably, at the end) he was somewhat of an unsung hero. But that's just my romantic ideals coming forward again, I think.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sad as it is, I have been watching out for any news on the oscars, and they have already given the names for the Golden Globes {which usually tell what will win in the Oscars}. No LOTR character has been nominated for actor or actress. I think Nicole Kidman will get actress and possibly Tom Cruise for actor but there are other possiblilities. I'm not sure about supporting roles, but I highly doubt that any LOTR actor or actress will get any personal award. You're right, Luthien. The stupid movie critics who chose these things surpass movies like LOTR just because it is a fantasy. Not to mention they choose the more popular person anyway. <BR>---------------------------------------------<P>About Sam's portrayal in the movie, though {to stay on topic}, I loved it. I saw the movie New Year's Day, and, I swear, it is the best movie I have ever seen in my entire life...and I've seen some greats. Sam made me cringe every time they showed a scene with him in it. The worst part was when Frodo told him to go home. I had to hold myself back from screaming out into the audience, since I was sitting second row. I think that part was good for PJ to put into the movie though for it showed Sam's loyalty and friendship even stronger. <P>Sam also had many defining moments throughout the movie that I could not stop talking about. And the dialogue!!! Wow, the writers sure did give Sean some strong dialogue. I was shaking practically the whole time because of it. <P>The end was great. I can't even describe it. The other Hobbits were good and all on there acting, but it wasn't until Frodo talked to Sam and Sam started to cry that I lost it. Everyone here always said to bring tissues because you would be crying. I didn't cry in either of the first two movies, and I didn't throughout the whole third movie. A tear did not fall, and I have witnesses to prove this, until Sam turns to Frodo, tears streaming down his own cheeks, and says:<P>"You don't mean that. You can't leave." <P>Ok, since I'm almost in tears again, I'm going to end this post. The strange thing is, I don't think I've seen Samwise on here yet. I wonder why....

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I didn't cry in either of the first two movies, and I didn't throughout the whole third movie. A tear did not fall, and I have witnesses to prove this, until Sam turns to Frodo, tears streaming down his own cheeks, and says:<P>"You don't mean that. You can't leave." <P>Ok, since I'm almost in tears again, I'm going to end this post. The strange thing is, I don't think I've seen Samwise on here yet. I wonder why....<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Same for me. Nothing. Ever. Until the Grey Havens, and Sam, and..... I lost it. Even though I started getting sad at the scene where Frodo's alone in Bag End.<P>I can't figure out why Samwise hasn't showed up, either. I guess I'll have to PM her and tell her to get over to this thread.<p>[ 6:19 AM January 05, 2004: Message edited by: Luthien_ Tinuviel ]

[Samwise]

Hm. Thank you for the PM, Miss Luthien, though I fear there is nothing more that I can say that hasn't already been said.<P>I was concerned, having "fallen in love" with the character of Sam Gamgee when I was 12 and first read the books, how Mr. Astin would portray him. I've said it more than once before, but as soon as I saw him in FOTR being "bummed out" about being to shy to go near Rose Cotton, I KNEW he would do my Sam proud. We watched him grow throughout the movies, and Mr. Astin did it gracefully.<P>As to punching Gollum in the face or trying to strangle him or whatever--I think that was a product of jealousy and heartbreak. Sam loved Frodo (no, I'm not talking the "g" word, because I think the idea of Sam and Frodo being that way is ludicrous), and he sensed from the beginning, or at least soon afterward, that Gollum was just "helping" to get the Ring for himself, and drive a wedge between Sam and Frodo so that that would be easier.<P>Yes, I was very happy to see some parts of the book sprinkled in ("PO-TA-TOES") or ("Well, I'm back.") but not being an expert on the books as some of you, I think Sean Astin would have made a positively wonderful Sam (as he was the Sam of my memory) regardless.<P>Oi... I grew up with the Rankin-Bass versions of the Hobbit and LOTR. The more I hear about the Bakashi version, the LESS and LESS I would want to see it!