Middle Earth Census - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lady Snickerdoodle · 04-13-2004, 01:35 PM

A random thought, but if one were to conduct a census of all the, um, beings in Middle Earth, what would the final count be, about? LIke the number of elves, men, hobbits, dwarves and such. And how would one go about doing it?

Another thought, it seems like the main habitations of ME are the Shire, Rivendell, Gondor and Rohan. And nowhere else mentionable. Just remarking.

Gil Galad · 04-13-2004, 01:49 PM

Yes, an interesting thought. There'd probably be about.... hmm I don't know.

Lord of Angmar · 04-13-2004, 01:52 PM

As far as I know, it would be impossible to estimate the total number of all people of various races of Middle-earth at any one point in time, especially if you were to include the Hither Lands. Perhaps it would be roughly similar to the population size of mediaeval Europe before the plague.

There are certainly a few more nations and lands in Middle-earth than the ones you mentioned. Mirkwood, Bree, Lothlorien, Dale, Harad and Mordor, to name a few. Do orcs and Nazgul count as "beings"?

Gil Galad · 04-13-2004, 02:06 PM

I wouldn't count Nazgul, we know how many of them there are in middle earth. Orcs, maybe, if you can survive long enough to count them all

Firefoot · 04-13-2004, 02:08 PM

I don't think it would be impossible. Extraordinarily difficult, yes. Impossible, no. Some places would be easier than others. The Shire probably wouldn't be all that hard. Someplace such as Gondor where all the people are spread out would be more difficult. Another place worth mentioning would be the area of the Grey Havens. There were quite a few Elves living there still.

As for estimating, I will use Rohan as an example. At the time of the WotR, they sent about 6,000 men to Gondor and still had some left to guard the country. I will say they had about 8,000 men total. Then there were probably about the same number of women, maybe more since they don't fight in battles, etc. So maybe 8,500 women. That's 16,500 people. Plus the children and the elderly, which would probably be slightly less than the totals of men and women. I'd say you are probably looking at a few more than 20,000 people in Rohan, which really isn't all that much.

Gil Galad · 04-13-2004, 02:19 PM

Give or take 1,000. I agree with Lord of Angmar. Proably about the same as the middles ages, before the plague. Give or take.

Lady Snickerdoodle · 04-13-2004, 06:43 PM

I don't think orcs would count because it would be kind of hard to find them all, and even then, they're supposed to have multiplied beyond number or whatever the quote was. *shudders*

Gil Galad · 04-13-2004, 06:51 PM

That is a very discomforting thought Lady S.

Lady Snickerdoodle · 04-13-2004, 07:10 PM

lol, but it's true you know... Think about it. A complex and intricate web of infested tunnels stretched through a major part of the Misty Mountains. And then the plains in Mordor trampled as far as Frodo and Sam could see with camped orc armies. Then the Moria population. Orthanc's too, though its kind of insignificant compared to the rest. All together thats a lot of orcs...

Have I forgotten anyone?

Gil Galad · 04-13-2004, 07:14 PM

hmm.... yes... lot's of orcs..... they don't taste very good.

(I also signed your guestbook on your site Lady S.

)

The Perky Ent · 04-13-2004, 10:47 PM

It depends greatly on when you take the census! If you took it after the war of the ring, you'd have about 1,000,000 less orcs in your census. There's a big drop there!

Here's a thought, what would be the census of Lindon. That's a question...and a small number!

And don't forget Fangorn! Ents, perky or not, have a say in a census also! Not to mention the ents in buckland...

Lady Snickerdoodle · 04-14-2004, 05:01 PM

Ooh yes, ents too. Those would probably be easier to keep track of seeing as they're generally in one place. So number of trees by square acre times the area of Fangorn Forest... Did Tolkien ever mention how big the forest was?
(lol, thanks for signing Gil Galad!)

***Sharkû*** · 04-15-2004, 08:08 AM

There are maps, yes.

Lady Snickerdoodle · 04-15-2004, 01:53 PM

fine that was stupid of me.

Gil Galad · 04-15-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkû

There are maps, yes.

There are some yes, but most are not very good. You really have to search the net for a real good one.

Lhundulinwen · 04-15-2004, 07:53 PM

Yes, it greatly depends on when you took the census. At one point the elves, I think would have outnumbered everyone. Hobbits were mostly concentrated in a pretty small area so they wouldn't have been too high in number.

Its not like they had a ME post office! It'd take years to go to all the various corners if you were able to survive.

Personally, at the hight of Gondor's glory, I would think that there'd have been aprox. 29,000 give or take a few men. But I don't really know, its just a guess.

**The Saucepan Man** · 04-16-2004, 09:08 AM

Here are some thoughts on the population of Gondor:

Gondor: Population and Casualties

04-16-2004, 11:50 AM

Not directly related to Tolkien's work but this is an interesting guide on this topic.

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm

May help put kingdoms like Gondor or Rohan into perspective.

Nirvana II · 04-18-2004, 01:07 PM

i would estimate around 80,403 and 1/4......counting everything east of Mordor.....

symestreem · 04-18-2004, 01:57 PM

If Mordor had uncounted numbers of orcs, Gondor would have had to have a lot more than 40,000 people to fight them.

04-13-2004, 01:35 PM	#1
Lady Snickerdoodle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the cookie jar Posts: 256	Middle Earth Census A random thought, but if one were to conduct a census of all the, um, beings in Middle Earth, what would the final count be, about? LIke the number of elves, men, hobbits, dwarves and such. And how would one go about doing it? Another thought, it seems like the main habitations of ME are the Shire, Rivendell, Gondor and Rohan. And nowhere else mentionable. Just remarking. __________________ "Let me handle this, I'm British." ~hitchhikers guide

04-13-2004, 01:49 PM	#2
Gil Galad Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hmm... good question.... Posts: 58	Yes, an interesting thought. There'd probably be about.... hmm I don't know. __________________ A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK

04-13-2004, 01:52 PM	#3
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	As far as I know, it would be impossible to estimate the total number of all people of various races of Middle-earth at any one point in time, especially if you were to include the Hither Lands. Perhaps it would be roughly similar to the population size of mediaeval Europe before the plague. There are certainly a few more nations and lands in Middle-earth than the ones you mentioned. Mirkwood, Bree, Lothlorien, Dale, Harad and Mordor, to name a few. Do orcs and Nazgul count as "beings"? __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

04-13-2004, 02:06 PM	#4
Gil Galad Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hmm... good question.... Posts: 58	I wouldn't count Nazgul, we know how many of them there are in middle earth. Orcs, maybe, if you can survive long enough to count them all __________________ A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK

04-13-2004, 02:19 PM	#6
Gil Galad Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hmm... good question.... Posts: 58	Give or take 1,000. I agree with Lord of Angmar. Proably about the same as the middles ages, before the plague. Give or take. __________________ A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK

04-13-2004, 02:08 PM	#5
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	I don't think it would be impossible. Extraordinarily difficult, yes. Impossible, no. Some places would be easier than others. The Shire probably wouldn't be all that hard. Someplace such as Gondor where all the people are spread out would be more difficult. Another place worth mentioning would be the area of the Grey Havens. There were quite a few Elves living there still. As for estimating, I will use Rohan as an example. At the time of the WotR, they sent about 6,000 men to Gondor and still had some left to guard the country. I will say they had about 8,000 men total. Then there were probably about the same number of women, maybe more since they don't fight in battles, etc. So maybe 8,500 women. That's 16,500 people. Plus the children and the elderly, which would probably be slightly less than the totals of men and women. I'd say you are probably looking at a few more than 20,000 people in Rohan, which really isn't all that much.

04-13-2004, 06:43 PM	#7
Lady Snickerdoodle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the cookie jar Posts: 256	I don't think orcs would count because it would be kind of hard to find them all, and even then, they're supposed to have multiplied beyond number or whatever the quote was. shudders __________________ "Let me handle this, I'm British." ~hitchhikers guide

04-13-2004, 06:51 PM	#8
Gil Galad Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hmm... good question.... Posts: 58	That is a very discomforting thought Lady S. __________________ A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK

04-13-2004, 07:10 PM	#9
Lady Snickerdoodle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the cookie jar Posts: 256	lol, but it's true you know... Think about it. A complex and intricate web of infested tunnels stretched through a major part of the Misty Mountains. And then the plains in Mordor trampled as far as Frodo and Sam could see with camped orc armies. Then the Moria population. Orthanc's too, though its kind of insignificant compared to the rest. All together thats a lot of orcs... Have I forgotten anyone? __________________ "Let me handle this, I'm British." ~hitchhikers guide

04-13-2004, 07:14 PM	#10
Gil Galad Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hmm... good question.... Posts: 58	hmm.... yes... lot's of orcs..... they don't taste very good. (I also signed your guestbook on your site Lady S. ) __________________ A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK

04-13-2004, 10:47 PM	#11
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	It depends greatly on when you take the census! If you took it after the war of the ring, you'd have about 1,000,000 less orcs in your census. There's a big drop there! Here's a thought, what would be the census of Lindon. That's a question...and a small number! And don't forget Fangorn! Ents, perky or not, have a say in a census also! Not to mention the ents in buckland... __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

04-14-2004, 05:01 PM	#12
Lady Snickerdoodle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the cookie jar Posts: 256	Ooh yes, ents too. Those would probably be easier to keep track of seeing as they're generally in one place. So number of trees by square acre times the area of Fangorn Forest... Did Tolkien ever mention how big the forest was? (lol, thanks for signing Gil Galad!) __________________ "Let me handle this, I'm British." ~hitchhikers guide

04-15-2004, 08:08 AM	#13
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	There are maps, yes.

04-15-2004, 01:53 PM	#14
Lady Snickerdoodle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the cookie jar Posts: 256	fine that was stupid of me. __________________ "Let me handle this, I'm British." ~hitchhikers guide

04-15-2004, 07:53 PM	#16
Lhundulinwen Wight Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wishin' and hopin' in the Shire Posts: 139	Yes, it greatly depends on when you took the census. At one point the elves, I think would have outnumbered everyone. Hobbits were mostly concentrated in a pretty small area so they wouldn't have been too high in number. Its not like they had a ME post office! It'd take years to go to all the various corners if you were able to survive. Personally, at the hight of Gondor's glory, I would think that there'd have been aprox. 29,000 give or take a few men. But I don't really know, its just a guess. __________________ ~Just call on me, and I'm there. I'll always be your Sam~

04-16-2004, 09:08 AM	#17
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Here are some thoughts on the population of Gondor: Gondor: Population and Casualties __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

04-16-2004, 11:50 AM	#18
erisber Guest Posts: n/a	Check this out ... Not directly related to Tolkien's work but this is an interesting guide on this topic. http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm May help put kingdoms like Gondor or Rohan into perspective. Last edited by erisber; 04-16-2004 at 12:02 PM.

04-18-2004, 01:07 PM	#19
Nirvana II Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: The Yellow Submarine....sandwich Posts: 207	i would estimate around 80,403 and 1/4......counting everything east of Mordor..... __________________ Это - российская вещь, Вы не поняли бы. Вы - пончик желе! Я оказался снова. Частное сообщение меня, если Вы понимаете.

04-18-2004, 01:57 PM	#20
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	If Mordor had uncounted numbers of orcs, Gondor would have had to have a lot more than 40,000 people to fight them.