hobits and outer racial breeding - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

lore_master · 02-25-2004, 08:21 PM

this came to me a few nights ago
If A Dwarf and a Man bred, could that create what we know today as Hobbits?(Stoors and Harfoots at least)

Maybe the Fallohides were a mix of the other two races of Hobbits and the Elves. Or maybe a mix of the Rohirrim or other north-men that could have had Elvish blood in them?

just a thought let me know what you think

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 02-27-2004, 10:23 AM

I think you should perhaps read 'Concerning Hobbits' again.

We should also remember that there is a difference between 'race' and 'species'. Dwarves could not reproduce with Men.

Findegil · 03-01-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Dwarves could not reproduce with Men.

Were does you get that knowledge from that you can sound so sure about it?

As fare as I know Tolkien never made a clear statment about this.

Respectfully
Findegil

galadriel'smaiden · 03-01-2004, 03:47 PM

Lets look at this as if we were dealing with animals.

A donkey and a zebra make a zonkey.

A lion and a tiger make a liger or a tion ( depending on maternity)

Logically, a man and a dwarf would make a hobbit, right?

Wrong.

Now lets looka this as if they would be people.

There arent subspecies of humans, we're all Homo Sapieas Sapiens, so its very difficult to decide wether or not this could happen; personally I doubt it. It was probably a recessive gene for shortness that perpetuated and eventually became hobbits.

Firefoot · 03-01-2004, 06:03 PM

There are lots of threads just like this. See this thread, this thread, and also here, here, and here.

You really should search before you start a new topic. I got all of these and more just with the search "Hobbit".

Lily Bracegirdle · 03-01-2004, 06:13 PM

I agree with Findegil: we just don't know.

Tolkien calls the different humanoids of Middle Earth "Races;" there is no mention of "Species."

Men can interbreed with both Elves and Orcs and produce fertile offspring in the former case. (Eldarion) We're never told about the latter, but if you believe that orcs were elves once it seems possible. The "southerner" in Bree is suspected to be part orc, but less so than the "half-orcs" at Helm's Deep, so perhaps he was only 1/4th or 1/8th orc. (Merry and Aragorn discuss this in "Flotsam and Jetsam")

In "Concerning Hobbits," hobbits are said to be "relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves." This brings up the possibility that hobbits and humans also could interbreed, however there is no reference to this ever happening. There's also no mention of dwarves interbreeding with other races, but that doesn't mean it was biologically impossible.

You can't assume that the different peoples of Middle Earth are different species just because they look different. A Great Dane and a Chihuahua look very different but they are still the same species and capable of having fertile offspring together (however unlikely this may be).

Anyway, I don't think Tolkien cared enough about biology to work out the logistics of interbreeding. He never said how many chromosomes dwarves had.

As far as hobbits being the offspring of humans and dwarves, I don't think it's likely, but can't prove it conclusively. The origins of hobbits are obscure even to them, so no one can say for sure.

-Lily

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 03-02-2004, 10:32 AM

But Aule created the Dwarves. They are very different from Men.

ArathorofBarahir · 03-03-2004, 02:29 PM

I highly doubt that a Man and Dwarf would consumate together. It just sounds disgusting if you ask me.

02-25-2004, 08:21 PM	#1
lore_master Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Valhalla Posts: 116	hobits and outer racial breeding this came to me a few nights ago If A Dwarf and a Man bred, could that create what we know today as Hobbits?(Stoors and Harfoots at least) Maybe the Fallohides were a mix of the other two races of Hobbits and the Elves. Or maybe a mix of the Rohirrim or other north-men that could have had Elvish blood in them? just a thought let me know what you think __________________ As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think

02-27-2004, 10:23 AM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	I think you should perhaps read 'Concerning Hobbits' again. We should also remember that there is a difference between 'race' and 'species'. Dwarves could not reproduce with Men. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

03-01-2004, 03:47 PM	#4
galadriel'smaiden Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vilnius Posts: 75	uhhhh Lets look at this as if we were dealing with animals. A donkey and a zebra make a zonkey. A lion and a tiger make a liger or a tion ( depending on maternity) Logically, a man and a dwarf would make a hobbit, right? Wrong. Now lets looka this as if they would be people. There arent subspecies of humans, we're all Homo Sapieas Sapiens, so its very difficult to decide wether or not this could happen; personally I doubt it. It was probably a recessive gene for shortness that perpetuated and eventually became hobbits. __________________ "For God's sake Ed, just take the stupid call!" said Justin. "Hello, Mum, I'm on stage," said Ed casually. "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGH!" screamed Justin.

03-01-2004, 06:13 PM	#6
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	I agree with Findegil: we just don't know. Tolkien calls the different humanoids of Middle Earth "Races;" there is no mention of "Species." Men can interbreed with both Elves and Orcs and produce fertile offspring in the former case. (Eldarion) We're never told about the latter, but if you believe that orcs were elves once it seems possible. The "southerner" in Bree is suspected to be part orc, but less so than the "half-orcs" at Helm's Deep, so perhaps he was only 1/4th or 1/8th orc. (Merry and Aragorn discuss this in "Flotsam and Jetsam") In "Concerning Hobbits," hobbits are said to be "relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves." This brings up the possibility that hobbits and humans also could interbreed, however there is no reference to this ever happening. There's also no mention of dwarves interbreeding with other races, but that doesn't mean it was biologically impossible. You can't assume that the different peoples of Middle Earth are different species just because they look different. A Great Dane and a Chihuahua look very different but they are still the same species and capable of having fertile offspring together (however unlikely this may be). Anyway, I don't think Tolkien cared enough about biology to work out the logistics of interbreeding. He never said how many chromosomes dwarves had. As far as hobbits being the offspring of humans and dwarves, I don't think it's likely, but can't prove it conclusively. The origins of hobbits are obscure even to them, so no one can say for sure. -Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

03-02-2004, 10:32 AM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,992	But Aule created the Dwarves. They are very different from Men. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

03-01-2004, 06:03 PM	#5
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,646	There are lots of threads just like this. See this thread, this thread, and also here, here, and here. You really should search before you start a new topic. I got all of these and more just with the search "Hobbit".

03-03-2004, 02:29 PM	#8
ArathorofBarahir Wight Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crickhallow Posts: 247	I highly doubt that a Man and Dwarf would consumate together. It just sounds disgusting if you ask me. __________________ King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me.