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Old 11-15-2003, 09:46 PM   #1
Northman
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Sting help from valar

this my sound dumb but, why didnt the valar or even "the one" help out in the war of the ring .
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:27 PM   #2
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Sting

I haven't gotten that far in the histories of Middle-Earth yet. How did they help?
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Old 11-15-2003, 11:21 PM   #3
Westerly Wizard
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The Valar's method of helping in the War against Sauron was by sending the Istari. Apparently realizing that in previous instances they had aided the Children of Iluvatar too greatly and directly, and at great cost to the land of Middle-earth, they decided upon a more subtle strategy. Thus, the Istari, or wizards, came in the shape of old men (and were only Maiar) who could not use their full power and were to help the battle from behind the scenes, more or less, rather than fighting Sauron one-on-one.

The One helped in a singular, very important way. It was Eru who sent Gandalf back from his death and gave him greater powers and enlarged his role. Eru does not interfere in the events of Arda often either: only in this instance and in the destruction of Ar-Pharazon's fleet and Numenor.
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Old 11-16-2003, 01:10 AM   #4
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Sting

You might be interested in this similar topic.
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Old 11-16-2003, 03:56 PM   #5
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There is at least one other instance where it is hinted at that Eru has interfered. Gandalf tells Frodo in "The Shadow of the Past":
Quote:
"Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was MEANT to find the Ring, and NOT by its maker. In which case you also were MEANT to have it. And that may be an encouraging thought."
There are many more instances where we can ask ourselves if "chance" is just chance, or if it is MEANT to turn out like that, (in other words if it is the finger of Eru...)

In letter 156 Tolkien wrote about LotR:
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I have purposely kept allusions to the highest matters down to mere hints, perceptible only by the most attentive, or kept them under unexplained symbolic forms. So God and the "angelic gods", the Lords or Powers of the West, only peep through in such places as Gandalfs conversation with Frodo "behind that there was something else at work...", or in Faramirs Numenorean grace at dinner.
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Old 11-16-2003, 08:24 PM   #6
Westerly Wizard
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Guinivere - I do not think that the non-chance instances in LotR can be accurately defined as the finger of Eru interfering. Rather, these simply represent the plan of Eru being effected, if that difference makes any sense.
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Old 11-17-2003, 02:52 AM   #7
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How about the winds that drove away the darkness of Sauron? ManwŽ's, probably?

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Old 11-17-2003, 10:17 AM   #8
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Sting

Doesn't Tolkien mention in one of his letters that the appearance of the little stream in Mordor (sent by Ulmo) is one of the only (if not the only) work by the Valar that specifically appears in LOTR?
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Old 11-17-2003, 12:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
I do not think that the non-chance instances in LotR can be accurately defined as the finger of Eru interfering. Rather, these simply represent the plan of Eru being effected, if that difference makes any sense.
I definitely agree with Westerly Wizard here - this is Eru's design working. He did not directly guide these instances; it's the ultimate goodness, included in the world from the start, as a result of his hand in creation.
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