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Old 10-17-2020, 01:29 PM   #1
Victariongreyjoy
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Why was Sauron so powerful during his war against Celebrimbor and the elves?

In the books, there was not mention of any forces except orcs that he used against Eregion. We would think Celebrimbor and the Noldor would have no problem crushing the orcs. Or were the numbers of Sauron's orcs just too massive for them to overcome?
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Old 10-17-2020, 01:44 PM   #2
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Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
The latter. Quantity often beats quality, exampled by Isildur's war-hardened party being overcome by a superior force of inferior fighters.
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Old 10-17-2020, 03:27 PM   #3
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Also, Sauron knew the city, and - given how much we know Celebrimbor worked with "Annatar" - it's possible he actually had a hand in building its defences. Which certainly gives him an advantage when it comes to pulling them back down.

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Old 10-29-2020, 05:25 AM   #4
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From Appendix B: "The Tale of Years", Second Age:
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c. 1500 The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power.

c. 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion.

c. 1600 Sauron forges the One Ring in Orodruin. He completes the Barad-dűr. Celebrimbor perceives the designs of Sauron.

1693 War of Elves and Sauron begins. The Three Rings are hidden.

1695 Sauron's forces invade Eriador. Gil-galad sends Elrond to Eregion.

1697 Eregion laid waste. Death of Celebrimbor. The gates of Moria are shut. Elrond retreats with remnant of the Noldor and founds the refuge of Imladris.
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Is it worth considering that this is the first time Sauron has gone to war wielding the power of the One Ring?

With its power he will only be defeated by the might of Numenor (twice), by the Last Alliance and finally through the Ring's destruction.

Near the beginning of the same section of Appendix B we are told, "Later, some of the Noldor went to Eregion..."

Once Eregion was founded and began its prosperous partnership with Durin's Folk in Moria there may have been more migration there from Lindon. But are we ever given any information regarding its population at the beginning of Sauron's attack?

In Unfinished Tales, History of Galadriel and Celeborn we learn that,"When Sauron learned of the repentance and revolt of Celebrimbor his guise fell and his wrath was revealed; and gathering a great force he moved over Calenardhon (Rohan) to the invasion of Eriador in the year 1695. When news of this reached Gil-galad he sent out a force under Elrond Half-elven; but Elrond had far to go and Sauron turned north and made at once for Eregion."

Certainly Gil-galad did not deem there to be enough elves to defend Eregion without help. As it turned out even Elrond's assistance wasn't enough.

It could be argued that Sauron, with an over-whelming force of orcs and trolls, simply rolled over the region. But should we not also consider the impact of the One Ring. Surely it played a role. But what?

We know from LoTR that Sauron could whip his troops up into a fighting frenzy without the Ring, so what would have been the added impact of his bearing it into battle that first time. I would love to hear other people's thoughts as to how the power of the One Ring would have manifested itself when it was on Sauron's finger.
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Old Yesterday, 08:26 AM   #5
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Gardener, you pose some good questions.

Clearly, Sauron's forces in the Second Age were overwhelming, at least until the Numenoreans came into the picture. Then Numenor's overwhelming force outweighed Sauron's overwhelming force regardless of the Ring. Even after Numenor fell, the West was able to scrape together sufficient force to defeat Sauron, again with the Ring.

To repeat comments from an earlier thread, found here http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=19065, JRRT says in Letter 131 that the One "contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that used the lesser rings, could govern all that they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them." But the Elves simply took off their Rings, so, other than perhaps control over the Ringwraiths (it seems that the One did not effectively control the Dwarves that wore the Seven), the effect of the Ring was really minimal during the wars of the Second Age.

In contrast, during the Third Age, Rivendell and Lorien may have relied heavily upon the power of the Elven Rings to establish and maintain those realms and if Sauron recovered the One, his force would have been enough to defeat Men with the Elves diminished due to the loss of the powers or Sauron's control of their Rings.
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Old Yesterday, 09:36 AM   #6
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Numenor plus Glorfindel, as the latter was "(though not yet said) pre-eminent in the war in Eriador."

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Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM   #7
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I agree, but would add that the Nine were not yet Ringwraiths at the time of the First War of the Rings; they hadn't yet been en-wraithened by long possession. But they were "kings, warriors and sorcerors," now wielding Rings of Power.....

In fact, it's not entirely clear when Sauron handed out the Nine and the Seven; he didn't even have them until after he sacked Eregion.
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Old Yesterday, 09:44 AM   #8
Mithadan
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True, we do not know when the Nine and the Seven were handed out. But if they were not distributed during the Second Age and the Elves put aside the Three, then what power did the One exert?
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Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM   #9
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We have at least one clue:the Nazgul were first sighted around SA 2250, or roughly 550 years after the First War. Now, I have no idea how long it took a Great King of Men to become a wraith, but it couldn't have been less than a couple of centuries, could it? On ther other hand, I doubt he would resist as long as Gollum (some 500 years). In other words, passing out rings was something Sauron decided to do after his attempt at conquest by brute force had been thwarted.

Obviously, Sauron would only have given Rings of Power out so long as he held the One and could control them, so deff. in the Second Age.
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