The Value of fantasy

[Starbreeze]

Do you think more people are reading fantasy or respecting it more because of the LotR film?

I have noticed that more people then ever are hanging around the Fantasy section of my local library, when I go to buy a book now there are very few of the fantasy ones I like left, and one of my local book shops has made the fantasy and scifi section twice the size it was before. What do you think?

[Lomelinde]

People are definitely paying more attention to fantasy now than before the LOTR films, especially that of Tolkien. Only a little while ago, LOTR, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion all were on best-sellers book lists in many newspapers, and the bookstores near me have expanded their Tolkien offerings tenfold. The movie has definitely put Tolkien back into the spotlight, and now people who never would have picked up a fantasy novel before are finding they like the genre after all. I know. I'm one of them.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

It seems to me that a lot of fantasy closet cases have come out in the open. There is definitely a lot more available now & I find that when I go to used book stores the owners always tell me that a lot of people have been in asking for Tolkien stuff.
I think it's great that there is a lot more out there now & a lot more fans to appreciate it.

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

Nobody ever read Tolkien before the movie(excepts you guys and me). Now where ever I go I always see someone with his nose in a paperback Tolkien book.

[Naaramare]

I think it's mainstreaming (to borrow our local punk-clique's word) the entire genre. I've been quite amused of late; I've managed to aquire a bit of a cachet in that I "liked Tolkien before it was cool to like Tolkien" (to quote someone from Musical Theater).

Whether it will gain more respect . . .well, that depends on what you mean by "respect". From the mainstream world, possibly. The movie, by being the success it was, has sent something of a message: "Yeah, you like fantasy too. It's not just a geek thing." (whether this will last after the newness has worn off is up to question). From serious literati? Probably no one who didn't already consider Tolkien significant will think any more of him now.

[Thinhyandoiel]

I think fantasy has become more widespread as a result of this latest craze. I say craze, because many of those who like it now won't in a few years. Sad really. I started reading the books before Christmas. After Christmas and the FOTR movie, I came to school and saw about ten girls I didn't even think could READ with their noses deeply imbedded in The Hobbit. Guys who saw my LOTR books started asking questions about them. When I went out to buy the Silmarillion, there was half a wall at Coles devoted to Tolkien, with LOTR, The Hobbit, Unfinished Tales and The Silmarillion all lined up neatly from three different publishers in three different covers. Every gaming store I go to has a life-size stand up of Saruman and Gandalf (usually 'guarding' the entrance). I think it's great, and I do credit the LOTR movie with that. But also, I'm more than willing to give some of that credit to the Harry Potter craze, even if LOTR is a million, billion, trillion, gazillion times better! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Birdland]

Sadly, many people who are inspired by the movie will read LoTR and enjoy, then look around for the next good "read" in the genre. And will probably be disappointed.

Hopefully, they will do their homework, and discover some of the other lost classic of the genre. (Though Tolkien has never really been "lost". [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] )

[akhtene]

What good the film has definitely done - it sent lots of people reading , introduced Tolkien's works to those who could never otherwise have opened a book. I don't believe that 'mainstreaming' (?) can really diminish in any way the value of fantasy for its true fans and admirers.

whether this will last after the newness has worn off is up to question

It probably won't, but still the nmber of those who admire fantasy as trend and Tolkien as a writer will be growing.

To my mind it's not wise to sneer at those who's just took up fantasy following the craze. It shouldn't matter how or why one came to certain ideas or preferences. What should matter is caring and understanding. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Please allow me to add my two pieces of mithril to the discussion.

* looks up from the table where he's been enjoying seedcakes and ale, lights a conversational bowl of pipeweed, nods a good-natured greeting to all present *

Have you ever stopped to consider that all experts must start somewhere? Take the Fellowship of the Ring for example. Frodo, Samwise, Merry, Pippin ... when they first began their adventure, they could hardly be considered experts. Yet each one of these Hobbits proved a valuable contributor to the group. It was a matter of being open enough to recognize their potential, give them a chance, assist them with a little encouragement and guidance now and again.

* inhales smoke *

In a similar way, those who but glimpse an incomplete view of Middle Earth and its history through the magic of the palantir rather than through the effort of serious study of books, ought to be welcomed to the Tolkien community, should they come seeking fellowship and willing to contribute their talents to the betterment of all through active participation in this realm.

At your Service,

Gandalf the Grey

[Birdland]

Hail and well met, Oh Grey Wanderer. Welcome to the Downs.

There is nothing wrong with discovering the tales of Middle Earth through seeing the films. I discovered one of my favorite authors after watching "I, Claudius" on PBS many years ago.

I just hope that after reading the trilogy and other works by Tolkien, that they don't get discouraged when they find that few books in the fantasy genre can measure up to the Master.

[Naaramare]

Grey Pilgrim, I think you amuse me. ^^

I don't mean to sneer at those who bought in after the "craze"; if they actually enjoy the genre and the literature, welcome to them. Orlando-crazed chat-speak fangirls, I could do without, but that's a rant for another time and another place. ^~

But I adore the fact that the movie has brought an entire section in Chapters devoted only to Tolkien. I'm not going to count on it lasting, but for now, I think I'll just enjoy my cachet.

Oooh, shiny . . .

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Return greetings, Birdland. Well met. * bows *

We can only hope that some of those introduced to the realm of Middle Earth through any means will absorb its magic well enough to inspire them to become authors of worthy sub-creations in their own right. The best way to find a book that measures up to the wonder you expect, is to write one yourself, as Bilbo Baggins discovered.

Which reminds me ... * leans toward you with a good-natured conspiratorial whisper * Having an adventure or two along the way might help as well. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

At your Service,

Gandalf the Grey

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Hail Naaramare,

And thank you, I think.

You say, "I'm not going to count on it lasting, but for now, I think I'll just enjoy my cachet."

True enough that even the best Age passes, and wise to live in the present rather than look forward to past melancholy. Meanwhile, we each have the opportunity to establish our legacy according to how we interact with those newly arrived on our shores, who look to us to set an example for them to aspire to.

At your Service,

Gandalf the Grey

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

There is nothing wrong with discovering the tales of Middle Earth through seeing the films. I discovered one of my favorite authors after watching "I, Claudius" on PBS many years ago.

Precisely. How someone comes to be interested in something has no significance whatsoever. In fact I'm finding this "mainstreaming" quite convenient in completing my set of the Histories. I must admit that I really can't stand to see LoTR figurines being given away by McDonald's, which to my mind is to treat Tolkien like the cultural junk food that Disney traditionally turn out. Not only that, but corporate marketing is so antithetical to JRRT's attitude that it's insulting to his memory to do so, but if people really appreciate what they're reading I consider it the worst kind of snobbery to begrudge them their discovery just because it was made a little easier for them by popular culture (one of the few instances where the term isn't oxymoronic).

Incidentally, it's nice to see a Robert Graves fan in the forum. "The Greek Myths": what a textbook. That adaptation of "I, Claudius" with Derek Jacobi, John Hurt et al was excellent in its own right (the cast list was like a who's who of British acting talent at the time). Graves is contemporary with Tolkien as well, if I'm not much mistaken. I believe that they were both infantry officers on the Western Front, although I don't think that they met.

Anyway, I digress; nice topic.

[Starbreeze]

I must admit, thought I did not find Tolkien by watching the film, my interest was rediscovered, which promoted me to join here. Without the film I would probably just have left it as a book I picked up and leafed through occaisionally, rather as the singular conversation topic of myself and my friends/family/strangers for the next 6 or so months.

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Starbreeze ]

[Lothiriel Silmarien]

I finished reading The Hobbit and loved it so much that I read LotR (and eventually mostly all of Tolkien's books) And a couple of months after I finished them, I found out that the book was being made into a movie, so that was really cool! But to me, a Tolkien fan is a Tolkien fan. It doesn't matter how many years, months, weeks, etc. since you liked Tolkien's books, the only thing that matters is how much of a fan you are of it. But although, those who have read them before the movies were even out, or even thought of, probably are more proud that they discovered him before. And that'd be nice if people were more into Tolkien before the movies, because some (not a lot) but some people I know only became interested in Tolkien because of the movie (which is not bad) but mostly for the reason because they think that Legolas was hot.... Oh well, better that people read the books than not! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Lothiriel Silmarien ]

[Saxony Tarn]

oh my -- so deep a topic that i think i'm going to need a Dwarven Mining team to excavate me out of here, not to mention what a wonderful "character" we have gracing this thread in Gandalf ( |_|) <-- this mug's for you, and it's better than Barliman's)

Not really much that i could disagree with here, and while there's a side of me that is moved to add a lusty "Huzzah" to the summary judgement of large segments of O.B.'s fan club, its conscience would remind it that there by the grace of Iluvatar it too once went. (though it be 25 years on, that sort of thing does keep one humble)

Hey, if it keeps the genre alive, and even revitalizes it for another generation or three, can't see how that could be a bad thing.

s.t.

(now where's that Dwarven Rescue Team? Good thing i've got lots of beer to provision me while i wait...)

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Hail and Well Met, Saxony Tarn.

* words echoing, the wizard bows a greeting from the top of the delving. with a wave of his staff, Gandalf causes the offered mug to rise through the dirt shaft and into his hand without spilling a drop of the precious golden liquid *

Thank you kindly for the beer. I assume since you're well-provisioned with brew, you'd prefer it if I leave you to wait awhile for the Dwarven Rescue Team, and drink a toast towards keeping fantasy alive! Oh ... and careful of the dragon, meanwhile. Or are you the one that's volunteered to slay it? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Gandalf the Grey

[GreatWarg]

Hello Grey Wanderer! Hail and well met at last. *bows deeply*

The point being, the TRUE Tolkien fan will ever be inspired by his works abnd the depth of it, and ever-welcome ideas it has created and the history and such detail of a highly refined quest like no other. What one can say about this is: Int he end, when the Orlando fans stops wailing about him, and the Elf fans get bored of their Elf hairstyles, the true fans will ontinue taking joy and pleasure in reading Tolkien's works over na dover again, each time experiencing it differently.

Sorry for the sternness of whe para. I just wrote. I usually don't write like that. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Daisy Sandybanks]

Yes, well, I can't say much here except to just go along and agree with everything that has already been said. To tell you the truth, I was one of the many people who didn't actually realize Tolkien's fine work exsisted untill the movie came out.
But, before that, I was reading a few Fantasy novels here and there.
But, yes, I do see how LotR (I'll have to admit, I do think HP had a small part in this as well) has inspired many to come out in the open and explore this "other" world that so many before them have already conqured.

[Naaramare]

With all do respect, Grey Pilgrim, no slaying of that dragon. It took me seven hundred years to tame the lizard, I won't have you offing him now.

A true Tolkien fan is defined by how willing they are to argue about it with me. ^^

[Starbreeze]

Yes, I will agree, LotR cannot be give all the credit for the growing success of the fantasy and sci fi genre - HP is also helping, as is the release of films like Star Wars Episode II - Attack of the Clones (which was a very good film). Bur LotR is the my opinion the most effective catalyst in the rapid growth of the fantasy reading population.

[Daniel Telcontar]

I wrote an essay about fantasy-books, and it made me think about their popularity.
I think that many people, both young and old, have many problems on their mind, and is often stressed. Then it is wonderful to take a book full of events so far from our daily lives, with heroes that we compare ourselves to. Just a few thoughts.

[Saxony Tarn]

Not a problem, Mithrandir, so long as you'll all be good and loud when you discuss so's i can hear it clearly down here at the bottom of this topic. Got plenty of beverages and a flaming sword for roasting the bratwurst too... Heh heh, good dragon, nice dragon, have some more beer and Goblin-Crunchies!

After all, without fantasy to enrich life, things would be awfully boring while sitting here at work waiting for something to break so we Dwarven Tinkers can go running off to fix it! Guess i can use the time while i wait for my rescue to edit that manuscript. Again. Anybody got a torch? Lantern? Candle? Reading by the light of a flaming blade is a real waste of good magic...

s.t.

(provisioned for a long stay...)

[Starbreeze]

Daniel - I couldn't agree more - after all, isn't that the meaning of fantasy? - A means of escape?

[Lush]

"Nowadays people know the price of everything, and the value of nothing..."

Sorry, but there is really nothing like a good Oscar Wilde epigram to start me off.
At this point in time, people have discovered that fantasy makes money; a little escapism in a troubled world, a little bit of magic sprinkled on the concerte cement blocks that we walk on in modern times, and stories that are a rich feast for the mind and somehow relevant to our daily lives all the same, what could be more profitable?
I am watching all this with bemusement: the hoopla will die down over the next few years, but the true lovers of the genre will be toughing it out, so I'm not worried.
I do, however, believe that the die-hard fans, as well as the fickle ones are all equally important. All can make a contribution, and all will take something away from Tolkien's works.

[Naaramare]

I think it may be a desire to return to a land of happy endings, actually . . . we tend to dislike them in our "realistic" fiction; in our new, enlightened cynicism (look, it's SARCASM, don't step in it) we dismiss them as "soft" "unrealistic" "stupid."

But happy endings and good and evil are still okay in fantasy, because it's all make believe anyway.

This is something that occurs to me at midnight, anyway. ^^

[Niphredil Baggins]

My brother is not a keen reader, but he asked to borrow my Lord of the Rings last time he visited me. He still has it. He loved the movie.

[Aragorn_the_Ranger]

Well Gimli Son Of Gloin,
you are but mistaken. I only started reading LOTR a bit before the movie came out and I regret it.

I had heard of the LOTR books yet i never got round to reading them. But I did always like fanatsy way before I saw the movie and before I read the books. Like Willow. Anyway I think I had read the Hobbit before at school. Though it must have been when I was in a younger grade cause all I remember is " In the hole there lived a Hobbit " and I had this mental picture of a little furry thing like an Ewok though dirty. I have now read the Hobbit and the other of Tolkien's work yet I still regret that I didn't get into it earlier before the hype.

[greyhavener]

I don't think it matters so much when or by what medium one came to love Tolkien in particular or good fantasy in general, but that we've discovered them. I agree fantasy can be an escape from reality, but I also believe it can be a setting in which to clothe invisible truths and revive heroic myth.

To me characters of depth, believable conflict, meaty relationships, settings and abilities and results that are consistent with the universe presented...these elements make a good story whether it's Middle Earth, present day New York City or ancient China.

Naaramare pointed out that happy endings are acceptable in fantasy but not in current realistic fiction. The thing that I find most satisfying in fantasy (also in so many older stories) is the hope that comes when good triumphs over evil and heroic characters receive their reward. This is only enjoyable, though, when the ending is happy but not contrived. For example, Frodo was too wounded to stay in Middle Earth. He didn't get the happily ever after that any hobbit would expect, but his fate was rewarding for Frodo and for the reader.