Questions - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Armani_Elf · 01-01-2003, 08:29 AM

1. In FOTR, Legolas appeard to be "not part of the clan" when the fellowship entered the Lorien forest and met Haldir and his clan...Why? 2. explain the definition of "half elves". (i know...I know...to those who tried to educate me in elf-ology in the chatroom, forgive me for not really getting the whole idea)....and the choice for Immortality and mortality for elves...and half elves. 3.Urukhai= goblins+orcs?4. How come the Elves of Lorien manage to hide from Sauron while most of the rest who owned the rings of power either died or become Nazguls?thank you. *bows* peace

Purple Elf · 01-01-2003, 05:17 PM

KK hang, on this might not be perfectly correct but ill try others please correct me! Riight 1) Legolas Greenleaf is a mirkwood elf, a prince in fact they are known to be wilder than the high elves of Lothlorien, (even though Legolas is of high elven decent) they are from very different parts of middle earth and do not visit each other often so this is probably why he seems "not part of the clan". 2)Half elves are, i think, elves which have some human blood in their ancestry, hence the brown hair rather than the blond of the mirkwood and high elves, The choice of mortality for elves as i know is some thing elrond and his twin brother, who i cant remember the name of, had to do, they were given the choice of which race to be counted in elves or men Elrond chose the elves and gained imortality for himself and his decendents, for,i gather, as long as he was with them, and his twin chose to be counted in the race of men, was mortal and becam the direct ancestor of Isildur and therefore Aragorn, for more info look on the middle earth encyclopiedia (thats where i got this from, under Elrond) 3)Uruk hai, ok im lookin in the books for this one, erm they are orks as Aragon states in TTT in the chapter the Riders of Rohan "Among the slain are none of the great Orks with the strange badges" and eomer says "We found none but Orcs" but i think they were bred especially by Saruman as they could carry on marching with Merry and Pippin even during daylight when normal orks would not. oo i just found it in the treebeard chapter hang this might be long "He (Saruman) has taken up with foul folk, with the Orks. Brm, hoom! Worse than that: he has been doing something to them; somethig dangerous.For these Isengarders are more like wicked Men. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the sun; but Saruman's Orks can endure it, even if they hate it. i wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Ords and Men?" this is what we get from the books in the film i think they say it is Ork's and Goblins also in the film they say Orks are elves corrupthed by Sauron but in the book treebeard says they are mockerys of Ents made by Sauron in the dark times. 4) finally only the Ni neKings of Men who took the rings of power became Nazgul as they were weak and greedy for power and so Sauron could control them. Both Elrond and Galadrael have rings of power but they are stronger than the men and wont be controlled, there was another but i cant remember, and the dwarven rings were lost. hope this has helped.

Orual · 01-01-2003, 06:00 PM

All good! The only thing I take issue with is your description of half-Elves...I don't think that that's why they had brown hair. If I'm not mistaken, the various races of Elves were differently coloured. (Would somebody who understood the Silmarillion correct me if I got that wrong?) Elrond is a half-Elf because his mother (Elwing) was an Elf, and his father (Eärendil) was human. He and his brother, Elros, were given the opportunity to decide which kindred they would belong to. Elrond chose the Elves, while Elros chose the Men, and they were both given the life-spans of their respective races.And as a bit of trivia, the Elvish word for Half-Elven is Peredhil.Hope that helps!~*~Orual~*~

Armani_Elf · 01-05-2003, 01:34 AM

hannon le.peace

01-05-2003, 01:48 AM

Okkie, I'm only 15 years old but I spent 3 years of my life studying Elves, i know quite a bit, I will do my best to help you out!!!!!!!! 1. Purple Elf got the point but there is a history behinde it. Elves used to be one great family, that is why there are no elves that battle each other (when men and ddwarfs do). Legolas is from mirkwood, he is a Grey elf, his family has harly had any enemies and any great griefs, that exlpains his being "completely out of it" and it also explains the weird reaction he has to death. 2. An half elf is an elf whose mother or father were not elves or were not of pure race. this is a very rare situation, as you see, the love between Aragorn and Awen seems so strange to many in the movie because it is very unusual. On the other hand giving up immortality doesn't really mean what people think. Everyone that didn't read the books thought that Arwen had given up her immortal life (meanig she would die at time like a human). The true meaning of it is that she will give up to live with her kind and with the immortals. I must say i never heard of any differece between elves and half elves giving up immortality (which again is a rare thing), but i'll look it up. 3. Yup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! every single one of those groose, muddy thingies. 4. Lothlorien is a cursed place, not even sauron would try to take it over without being certain of winning.I almost forgot The rings that Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond bear are not of ME, they were made by an elf, they are the only ones not affected by Saurons powers, or that is mr.CT theory. [ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen_RingBearer ][ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen_RingBearer ][ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen_RingBearer ]

FarathrimMaiden · 01-05-2003, 04:20 PM

1. Just being difficult here, but actually there was at least one recorded fight between elves. Melkor, the dark enemy spread lies, Ungoliant destroyed the Trees of Valnor which drove out light from the Undying Lands, Melkor stole the Simarils that the Noldor Prince Feanor had wrought, he fled with Ungoliant (the great spider) across Helcaraxe (the grinding ice), and returned to Middle-earth. Feanor swore vengeance and pursued Melkor. They captured the swan ships of Teleri of Alqualonde and slew their elven kin. I wish icould expplain this better but i only know it because i read it in the Tolkien Encyclopedia, i havnt yet read the Silmarillion (forgive my spelling) 3. (I got this from a Tolkien encyclopedia, although it could be wrong) Goblins are the name we humans have nowadays given to orcs. Orcs perfer not to be in sunlight, but Uruk-Hai are not bothered by it as much and are bigger, stronger, and bred by Sauron. So i think basically what it said was Goblins and orcs are the same just different name which is weird cause they are called goblins in the hobbit, but still i understand because the hobbit is more of a child's story.4. Yeah, the elven rings were forged by the elves in secret, and therefore never touched by Sauron, so he could not know of them or control them. The other rings were controled by the one ring and therefore corrupted, but the elven rings were free of this.

01-05-2003, 04:27 PM

4. the elves had matching powers to the magic rings, witch made the resist the rings. this is only a plus to the other answers.

maikafanawen · 01-05-2003, 06:32 PM

Purple Elf you said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...but in the book treebeard says they are mockerys of Ents made by Sauron in the dark times. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I may be wrong but I think that Treebeard said that Trolls were a mockery of Ents and Orcs were a mockery of Elves.

Purple Elf · 01-06-2003, 08:40 AM

Thanks Maikafanawen i couldn't find that part in the book as i was in a hurry, so I did it from memory. This shows still though that Orks were not Elves corrupted by Sauron, as said in the film, but mockerys of them made by him.

Armani_Elf · 01-06-2003, 08:58 AM

all right. now i feel really sorry for Legolas. like u said no wonder he had that reaction to death....oh so u have to read the similrillion or watever to get all these history thingies????peace

01-01-2003, 08:29 AM	#1
Armani_Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: a mere Ghostly Wanderer Posts: 29	Questions 1. In FOTR, Legolas appeard to be "not part of the clan" when the fellowship entered the Lorien forest and met Haldir and his clan...Why? <P>2. explain the definition of "half elves". (i know...I know...to those who tried to educate me in elf-ology in the chatroom, forgive me for not really getting the whole idea)....and the choice for Immortality and mortality for elves...and half elves. <P>3.Urukhai= goblins+orcs?<P>4. How come the Elves of Lorien manage to hide from Sauron while most of the rest who owned the rings of power either died or become Nazguls?<P>thank you. bows<BR>peace __________________ An elf in an Armani suit

01-01-2003, 05:17 PM	#2
Purple Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: A tree somewhere anywhere! Posts: 34	KK hang, on this might not be perfectly correct but ill try others please correct me! Riight<BR>1) Legolas Greenleaf is a mirkwood elf, a prince in fact they are known to be wilder than the high elves of Lothlorien, (even though Legolas is of high elven decent) they are from very different parts of middle earth and do not visit each other often so this is probably why he seems "not part of the clan".<BR>2)Half elves are, i think, elves which have some human blood in their ancestry, hence the brown hair rather than the blond of the mirkwood and high elves, The choice of mortality for elves as i know is some thing elrond and his twin brother, who i cant remember the name of, had to do, they were given the choice of which race to be counted in elves or men Elrond chose the elves and gained imortality for himself and his decendents, for,i gather, as long as he was with them, and his twin chose to be counted in the race of men, was mortal and becam the direct ancestor of Isildur and therefore Aragorn, for more info look on the middle earth encyclopiedia (thats where i got this from, under Elrond)<BR>3)Uruk hai, ok im lookin in the books for this one, erm they are orks as Aragon states in TTT in the chapter the Riders of Rohan "Among the slain are none of the great Orks with the strange badges" and eomer says "We found none but Orcs" but i think they were bred especially by Saruman as they could carry on marching with Merry and Pippin even during daylight when normal orks would not. oo i just found it in the treebeard chapter hang this might be long "He (Saruman) has taken up with foul folk, with the Orks. Brm, hoom! Worse than that: he has been doing something to them; somethig dangerous.For these Isengarders are more like wicked Men. It is a mark of evil things that came in the Great Darkness that they cannot abide the sun; but Saruman's Orks can endure it, even if they hate it. i wonder what he has done? Are they Men he has ruined, or has he blended the races of Ords and Men?" this is what we get from the books in the film i think they say it is Ork's and Goblins also in the film they say Orks are elves corrupthed by Sauron but in the book treebeard says they are mockerys of Ents made by Sauron in the dark times.<BR>4) finally only the Ni neKings of Men who took the rings of power became Nazgul as they were weak and greedy for power and so Sauron could control them. Both Elrond and Galadrael have rings of power but they are stronger than the men and wont be controlled, there was another but i cant remember, and the dwarven rings were lost.<BR> hope this has helped. __________________ "Because i belived you to be indeed Luthien Tinuvel, of whom i was singing. but if you are not she, then you walk in her likeness." - Aragorn

01-01-2003, 06:00 PM	#3
Orual Speaker of the Dead Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Superbia Posts: 883	All good! The only thing I take issue with is your description of half-Elves...I don't think that that's why they had brown hair. If I'm not mistaken, the various races of Elves were differently coloured. (Would somebody who understood the Silmarillion correct me if I got that wrong?) Elrond is a half-Elf because his mother (Elwing) was an Elf, and his father (Eärendil) was human. He and his brother, Elros, were given the opportunity to decide which kindred they would belong to. Elrond chose the Elves, while Elros chose the Men, and they were both given the life-spans of their respective races.<P>And as a bit of trivia, the Elvish word for Half-Elven is <I>Peredhil.</I><P>Hope that helps!<P>~~Orual~~ __________________ "Oh, my god! I care so little, I almost passed out!" --Dr. Cox, "Scrubs"

01-05-2003, 01:34 AM	#4
Armani_Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: a mere Ghostly Wanderer Posts: 29	hannon le.<P>peace __________________ An elf in an Armani suit

01-05-2003, 01:48 AM	#5
Arwen_RingBearer Guest Posts: n/a	Okkie, I'm only 15 years old but I spent 3 years of my life studying Elves, i know quite a bit, I will do my best to help you out!!!!!!!!<BR>1. Purple Elf got the point but there is a history behinde it. Elves used to be one great family, that is why there are no elves that battle each other (when men and ddwarfs do). Legolas is from mirkwood, he is a Grey elf, his family has harly had any enemies and any great griefs, that exlpains his being "completely out of it" and it also explains the weird reaction he has to death. <BR>2. An half elf is an elf whose mother or father were not elves or were not of pure race. this is a very rare situation, as you see, the love between Aragorn and Awen seems so strange to many in the movie because it is very unusual. On the other hand giving up immortality doesn't really mean what people think. Everyone that didn't read the books thought that Arwen had given up her immortal life (meanig she would die at time like a human). The true meaning of it is that she will give up to live with her kind and with the immortals. I must say i never heard of any differece between elves and half elves giving up immortality (which again is a rare thing), but i'll look it up.<BR>3. Yup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! every single one of those groose, muddy thingies.<BR>4. Lothlorien is a cursed place, not even sauron would try to take it over without being certain of winning.I almost forgot The rings that Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond bear are not of ME, they were made by an elf, they are the only ones not affected by Saurons powers, or that is mr.CT theory. <P>[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen_RingBearer ]<P>[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen_RingBearer ]<p>[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: Arwen_RingBearer ]

01-05-2003, 04:20 PM	#6
FarathrimMaiden Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering the Shores of Middle-earth Posts: 21	1. Just being difficult here, but actually there was at least one recorded fight between elves. Melkor, the dark enemy spread lies, Ungoliant destroyed the Trees of Valnor which drove out light from the Undying Lands, Melkor stole the Simarils that the Noldor Prince Feanor had wrought, he fled with Ungoliant (the great spider) across Helcaraxe (the grinding ice), and returned to Middle-earth. Feanor swore vengeance and pursued Melkor. They captured the swan ships of Teleri of Alqualonde and slew their elven kin. I wish icould expplain this better but i only know it because i read it in the Tolkien Encyclopedia, i havnt yet read the Silmarillion (forgive my spelling) <BR>3. (I got this from a Tolkien encyclopedia, although it could be wrong) Goblins are the name we humans have nowadays given to orcs. Orcs perfer not to be in sunlight, but Uruk-Hai are not bothered by it as much and are bigger, stronger, and bred by Sauron. So i think basically what it said was Goblins and orcs are the same just different name which is weird cause they are called goblins in the hobbit, but still i understand because the hobbit is more of a child's story.<P>4. Yeah, the elven rings were forged by the elves in secret, and therefore never touched by Sauron, so he could not know of them or control them. The other rings were controled by the one ring and therefore corrupted, but the elven rings were free of this. __________________ Not All Those Who Wander Are Lost. Frodo most certainly does live. "Will you look into my mirror?" "What will I see?"

01-05-2003, 04:27 PM	#7
nibinlondwen Guest Posts: n/a	4. the elves had matching powers to the magic rings, witch made the resist the rings.<BR>this is only a plus to the other answers.

01-05-2003, 06:32 PM	#8
maikafanawen Tears of Simbelmynë Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Beast's Castle Posts: 705	Purple Elf you said: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...but in the book treebeard says they are mockerys of Ents made by Sauron in the dark times. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I may be wrong but I think that Treebeard said that Trolls were a mockery of Ents and Orcs were a mockery of Elves. __________________ "They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say, 'Sht, it's raining!'" -- Ruby, Cold Mountain*

01-06-2003, 08:40 AM	#9
Purple Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: A tree somewhere anywhere! Posts: 34	Thanks Maikafanawen i couldn't find that part in the book as i was in a hurry, so I did it from memory. This shows still though that Orks were not Elves corrupted by Sauron, as said in the film, but mockerys of them made by him. __________________ "Because i belived you to be indeed Luthien Tinuvel, of whom i was singing. but if you are not she, then you walk in her likeness." - Aragorn

01-06-2003, 08:58 AM	#10
Armani_Elf Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: a mere Ghostly Wanderer Posts: 29	all right. now i feel really sorry for Legolas. like u said no wonder he had that reaction to death....<P>oh so u have to read the similrillion or watever to get all these history thingies????<P>peace __________________ An elf in an Armani suit