The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Announcements and Obituaries > Haudh-en-Ndengin
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-27-2001, 02:55 PM   #1
xMattx
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sting Ent-Wives

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I was wondering if any of the lost tales have anything about the Ent-wives, it seems like there wasn't any closure in The Lord of The Rings on this topic.
 
Old 10-27-2001, 03:08 PM   #2
Eldar14
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: the Cottage of Lost Play
Posts: 182
Eldar14 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Eldar14
Sting

I'm not sure, but I just had to say that I found it kind of disturbing that the quote on the top of my screen when I read that was a Treebeard quote. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
"Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!"

-- FŽanor to the Noldor
Eldar14 is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 07:43 AM   #3
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

Does anyone think that the walking Elm tree mentioned by Sam as ahving been seen by his cousin Hal in Chapter 2 of FOTR could av been an Entwife. After all Treebeard does imply later that he reckons the Entwives would love the Shire.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of FŽanor, and there he slew FinwŽ King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for FinwŽ alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 08:14 AM   #4
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 2,888
Mithadan has been trapped in the Barrow!
Sting

Welcome to the Downs, Matt and Finwe. Lost Tales does not mention the Ents or the Entwives. The Ents were conceived as JRRT was writing LoTR about 25 years after he had written what is now known as the Lost Tales.
__________________
That which once was shall be again!
Mithadan is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 09:03 AM   #5
Elenhin
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Posts: 205
Elenhin has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Originally posted by finwe:
<STRONG>Does anyone think that the walking Elm tree mentioned by Sam as ahving been seen by his cousin Hal in Chapter 2 of FOTR could av been an Entwife.</STRONG>
I very much doubt that. We know that over time Ents changed to resemble those trees they were closest to, and that the walking tree was supposed to be an Elm tree. We also know that the Entwives were gardeners (or farmers) and not tree-shepherds. It's logical to assume that just like the males of their species, the Entwives would change to resemble the things they care for - and therefore they would resemble garden-plants, not elm trees.

The theory you suggest is very popular though.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Elenhin ]
Elenhin is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 09:05 AM   #6
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 2,888
Mithadan has been trapped in the Barrow!
Sting

From Treebeard's description, I think that Entwives likely resembled fruit trees rather than garden plants.
__________________
That which once was shall be again!
Mithadan is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 11:42 AM   #7
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

IF the aforementioned sighting by Sam's cousin is in fact not an Entwife, what is it?
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 01:15 PM   #8
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 2,888
Mithadan has been trapped in the Barrow!
Sting

A tree? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
That which once was shall be again!
Mithadan is offline  
Old 10-30-2001, 02:45 PM   #9
Mister Underhill
Dread Horseman
 
Mister Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,738
Mister Underhill has been trapped in the Barrow!
Sting

A very large shrub?
Mister Underhill is offline  
Old 10-31-2001, 09:40 AM   #10
onewhitetree
Seeker of Syntax
 
onewhitetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Scene of the Crime
Posts: 273
onewhitetree has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to onewhitetree
Sting

Somehow, I'm not convinced!!!

You two are pros; you're going to have to do better than that.
__________________
onewhitetree (also known as Kate)

Well, I'M BACK.
onewhitetree is offline  
Old 10-31-2001, 11:00 AM   #11
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 2,888
Mithadan has been trapped in the Barrow!
Sting

I'm not convinced either! At best, Sam's report falls into JRRT's "enigma" category. At worst, Sandyman was right and Sam's cousin had taken too much holiday cheer.
__________________
That which once was shall be again!
Mithadan is offline  
Old 10-31-2001, 03:23 PM   #12
amyrlis
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Helcaraxe
Posts: 210
amyrlis has just left Hobbiton.
Boots

I'm re-reading The Fellowship now and recently went through the part where the Hobbits embark into the old Forest. Merry speaks of a time when the trees "planted themselves" right up against the hedge, in light of the hobbits' attempts to keep them back. So, the hobbits, um, let me see if I can remember correctly - the hobbits hewed down all the trees within a certain distance of the fence and burned them in a big bonfire. The bonfire glade never grew trees in it again. Anyway, could that row of trees that planted itself up against the hedge have been Ent-wives? How sad if they liked the Shire and wanted to be as close to it as they could get, but met their tragic fate instead. Well, just throwing that out as a thought.
__________________
"Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies
And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."
amyrlis is offline  
Old 10-31-2001, 05:34 PM   #13
SharkŻ
Hungry Ghoul
 
SharkŻ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
SharkŻ has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The most likely answer to both the walking tree Hal saw and the trees that issued forth from the Old Forest is that they, since they are very ancient specimens, were among those tress which are still aware of the mission Yavanna gave them, to protect the olvar, the rooted beings, from the kelvar, the animals and humanoids (apparently, if need arises, also by force).
Or they might simply be trees that have grown 'Entish' over the years, and resemble Huorns now, as was probably the case with such trees as Old Man Willow (notice how his/its (?) age is again eponymous) or some in Fangorn forest.

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Sharku ]
SharkŻ is offline  
Old 10-31-2001, 11:23 PM   #14
Orald
Shadow of Malice
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: right behind you
Posts: 843
Orald has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Orald Send a message via Yahoo to Orald
Sting

A curse upon you Sharku, you stumbled onto what I was about to say. Now I must change it, because I am going to say something.

Trees are always falling in and out of sleep. Becoming more entish or more treeish. This is why I don't feel to sorry for The ents, because as long as there are trees, there should be some ents. Remember when the hedge attacked the Shire? Maybe it was just a group of Hourns that had their slumber disturbed by some hobbits.
Orald is offline  
Old 11-01-2001, 06:45 AM   #15
SharkŻ
Hungry Ghoul
 
SharkŻ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
SharkŻ has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Yup, see above.
Just what I said [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
SharkŻ is offline  
Old 11-02-2001, 05:44 AM   #16
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

What about if you consider the possibility that Goldberry was intended to be Yavanna?
After all their descriptions are quite similiar.<Taken from a Gene Hargrove essay>

Quote:
In another guise Yavanna is described as a tree

... crowned with the sun; and from all its branches there spilled a golden dew upon the barren earth... but the roots of the Tree were in the waters of Ulmo, and the winds of Manwe spoke in its leaves. (Silmarillion, p 21)

Compare this with the description of Goldberry:

... her hair was flying loose, and as it caught the sun it shone and shimmered. A light like the glint of water on dewy grass flashed under her feet as she danced. (Fellowship, p 155)
Tolkien also mentioned that the Entwives were "loyal" to Goldberry whil the Ents followed Olwe.
Surely this would open the possibility of the Entwives following Goldberry to the shire.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of FŽanor, and there he slew FinwŽ King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for FinwŽ alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline  
Old 11-02-2001, 05:46 AM   #17
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

BTW
Quote from a Gene Hargrove essay, in case any1 thinks I'm stealing
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of FŽanor, and there he slew FinwŽ King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for FinwŽ alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline  
Old 11-02-2001, 11:27 AM   #18
Elenhin
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vantaa, Finland
Posts: 205
Elenhin has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Well... unless Yavanna is cheating on Aule (which I strongly doubt), then Goldberry can't be Yavanna. Tom Bombadil doesn't exactly look like Aule to me.
Elenhin is offline  
Old 11-03-2001, 10:21 AM   #19
Kin-strife
Haunting Spirit
 
Kin-strife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 58
Kin-strife has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

And how exactly does Aule look in the third age? It's a comon enough theory that Tom was Aule at that time studying hobbits due to his fondness of all the Eruhinž. It's quite natural that if he wished to meet and greet with hobbit folk he would assume an image familiar to them.
__________________
"Come away, O human child!/ To the waters and the wild/With a faery hand in hand,/ For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand."
Kin-strife is offline  
Old 11-03-2001, 10:51 AM   #20
SharkŻ
Hungry Ghoul
 
SharkŻ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,721
SharkŻ has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Look for a list of forum threads on Tom here. Practically wherever the Tom=Aule theory is mentioned there it is proved flawed.
SharkŻ is offline  
Old 11-04-2001, 12:14 AM   #21
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Thumbs up

Bombadil wasn't a craftsman, as Aule was. Yavannah was never said to have a mother. Goldberry was the River Woman's daughter, if her mother were Maia she'd have been a Maia of Ulmo. Didn't the forest stretch all the way across the land in the first and possibly the second age? And weren't the Ent wives supposed to have occupied what was known as the Brown Lands across the River from Fangorn?
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline  
Old 11-04-2001, 12:04 PM   #22
Kin-strife
Haunting Spirit
 
Kin-strife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 58
Kin-strife has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Well when you put it that way. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
"Come away, O human child!/ To the waters and the wild/With a faery hand in hand,/ For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand."
Kin-strife is offline  
Old 11-05-2001, 06:48 PM   #23
Halbarad
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Cheongju, Korea
Posts: 147
Halbarad has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

What if the elm tree was an ent searching for them. Treebeard said to Pippin that they went searching far and wide for them. OR, it could have been an ent that stayed with the Huorns in the Old Forest, it being a remnant of the greater forest. The entwives are either dead or gone to the East, which is outside the realms of LoTR

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: Halbarad ]
__________________
-Halbarad to Aragorn, 'The Passing of the Grey Company' Book V, Return of the King."A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labour for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not"
Halbarad is offline  
Old 11-06-2001, 06:30 PM   #24
old_man_willow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Shield

i think that maybe somewhere there is a description of where the entwives are.. but mainly i think they are there to play with peoples minds. you know something to wonder about but never know
 
Old 11-06-2001, 06:48 PM   #25
Kin-strife
Haunting Spirit
 
Kin-strife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 58
Kin-strife has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Like good old Tomo
__________________
"Come away, O human child!/ To the waters and the wild/With a faery hand in hand,/ For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand."
Kin-strife is offline  
Old 11-08-2001, 10:19 PM   #26
Halbarad
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Cheongju, Korea
Posts: 147
Halbarad has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Originally posted by old_man_willow:
<STRONG>i think that maybe somewhere there is a description of where the entwives are.. but mainly i think they are there to play with peoples minds. you know something to wonder about but never know</STRONG>
That's what makes it so cool
__________________
-Halbarad to Aragorn, 'The Passing of the Grey Company' Book V, Return of the King."A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labour for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not"
Halbarad is offline  
Old 12-08-2001, 09:06 AM   #27
Mhoram
Dead and Loving It
 
Mhoram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars.
Posts: 363
Mhoram has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

In The Wight Rider when Gandalf tells Aragorn and Co. about Treebeard, Aragorn is shocked that they really exist. Now, consider all the rangers that were on the borders of the shire around the time Hal saw his Tree-man. Could there have been an Ent, let alone Ents, be they male or female without a ranger having seen one? And anything a ranger had seen would have been reported to their leader.
Mhoram is offline  
Old 03-10-2003, 08:59 AM   #28
Noxomanus
Wight
 
Noxomanus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 233
Noxomanus has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

It might be interesting to know that in the Ent/Entwive song they're singing about going west.So maybe the Entwives (and possibly some Ents too) fled to Valinor. This could explain why the possible "Shire Ent/Entwive" was there,it might have been going to the Grey Havens. Ents don't seem to be mortal,do they?
__________________
Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't
Noxomanus is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.