Dueling Wizards Werewolf Suggestion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 05-27-2006, 07:31 PM

As requested (by Gurthang), I'm starting a thread for Dueling Wizards Werewolf suggestions.

Please post to this thread any ideas, questions, suggestions, criticisms, et cetera, you have regarding the game. I promise to post the rules in an orderly outline to this thread. They'll be edited into this first post at a later date (when I have time). Have fun!

Diamond18 · 05-27-2006, 10:29 PM

Well, about the GW getting to scry on Night One. I see no reason why s/he should not, after all, the EW already has an easier time of it and not letting the GW scry would be unfair. I was a bit confused at first why you said that in the future it would be a better idea not to let the GW scry Night One. Is it because this creates the opportunity for the GW to discover the EW right off? I think that's remedied easily enough by changing the ruling that the GW/EW find out each others' identities by scrying/cursing the same person. Just maintain the annonymity, unless one of them choses the other one. There is the possibility still that one wizard (or both) will chose the other wizard and find out that way -- but if they are so smart and fortunate as to pick the other wizard out from the whole village on Night One, more power to them. *shrug*

So to sum that ramble up: I would say, keep it so that both the GW and EW get to make picks on Night One, but do not reveal their identities to them if they pick the same person.

mormegil · 05-28-2006, 10:38 AM

I would consider posing a posting limit on day one. Over 200 posts on the first day was absurd and I had no chance to read through it all. I felt very detached at the start of the game due to this. I would hate making a hard and fast rule about it but it was just too many post to read in the short time I had.

Firefoot · 05-28-2006, 11:19 AM

Morm, I don't really think there's much way around it. In a game that starts with 30 people thereabouts, 200 posts is actually less than 10 posts per person (about 6-7), which really is not unreasonable at all; it's probably closer to average. The problem is there are just so many people, and I admit I had difficulties with that as well. But I think that in a game so big you just have to accept that it's going to be like that.

Loki · 05-28-2006, 12:06 PM

I am of the opinion that the night one events should be done as thusly:

GW prepares a list of people to scry (Possibly three or four people, as these are common numbers...). Good mod randomly picks one of these as a given gifted.

Much like the GW, the EW prepares a list of wolves, and the evil mod randomly chooses wolves from this list.

This is done so that neither wizard finds out who the other is on night one. This is done under the premise that the wizards, gifted and wolves had existed prior to Night One, and they simply take action on this Night.

Alternate situation:

Good Wizard picks gifted, then EW prepares his(her) possible list of wolves, whom are randomly selected from said list.

The hunter, also, must choose their kill-- they do not automatically kill any wolves that attack them.

I am also of the opinion that the GW should automatically select a seer, but neither of them take any action on Night One. However, these are all my personal choices. The EW has too many other benefits.

Also, this game should almost exclusively be played with a large number of players. Else, the EW won't have a chance. Large being over 10.

littlemanpoet · 05-28-2006, 12:56 PM

GW Scry on Night One

My rationale for this is that the GW & EW should not find each other on the first night. Possible solutions have been provided for that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamond

I think that's remedied easily enough by changing the ruling that the GW/EW find out each others' identities by scrying/cursing the same person.

That ruling is in place because it seemed to be the nature of magical power such that the two wizards would sense, and be able to identify each other, in such a case. So it's about trying to be realistic instead of arbitrary and artificial. Not that I have anything against other mods' choices for arbitrary rulings; in and of themselves, arbitrary rulings (that is, mod-initiated & not worrying about 'realism') are not a bad thing; I just don't like to use them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

GW prepares a list of people to scry (Possibly three or four people, as these are common numbers...). Good mod randomly picks one of these as a given gifted.

Much like the GW, the EW prepares a list of wolves, and the evil mod randomly chooses wolves from this list.

This is done so that neither wizard finds out who the other is on night one. This is done under the premise that the wizards, gifted and wolves had existed prior to Night One, and they simply take action on this Night.

This is feasible and not overly artificial or abitrary. Worth using, I think.

Also, I think that it is not right for the evil wizard to be down to 2 werewolves before Day One even begins. That's not fair either. Loki's plan could be used to prevent that too.

Number of Posts per Day

I built that problem into the game on purpose. It wasn't hard.

Again, it's like real life. On single villager can be in more than one place in the village at a time, and can't possibly keep track of every conversation that's going on in the village, although listening to other villagers' reports can give any other villager a sense of what's been going on, but then they're necessarily depending on the other villagers' perceived veracity. I like that. And there were a number of villagers who provided helpful summaries under the guise of analyses. Very much like things would run in a real village. So I don't mind the huge number of posts in a day. I like it, and support it. It's part of the game. A new "difficulty level" challenge for you accomplished blokes.

Hunter's Powers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

The hunter, also, must choose their kill-- they do not automatically kill any wolves that attack them.

Any moderator who wished to run a dueling wizards game is free to abide by this. I won't. I don't like a weak hunter. That's why I made the choice I did. If there's some way to find a middle ground between the weak hunter I don't like, and the strong hunter I used in the last game, I'm interested.

Number of Players

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

Also, this game should almost exclusively be played with a large number of players. Else, the EW won't have a chance. Large being over 10.

I absolutely agree. I would say no less than 16 players, and 20 or more is preferrable.

Lynching Tie

And now for a new possibility to increase what I call the "Tolkien Theme" aspect: if the top vote getters are tied, no lynch for the Day. You can see the implications pretty quickly. What do you think?

littlemanpoet · 05-29-2006, 09:58 AM

Okay, let's put this to a vote ... including reasons as you like.

What would be better:

1) Both Good and Evil Teams being able to PM all the time.

2) Both Good and Evil Teams being able to PM only at Night.

3) For a really perverse scenario ....

..... Evil team only able to PM during the Day, and Good team only at Night.

(only half serious ... could get really interesting)

**The Saucepan Man** · 05-29-2006, 10:50 AM

The Good Wizard must be able to scry the first night. Otherwise the innocents would be even worse off than they are already. If the GW and the EW pick the same person at night, I would suggest that the person in question simply remains an ordo and that they remain oblivious to the fact that they have been the subject of a wizardly power struggle. There is nor reason, as far as I acn see, why the wizards need be revealed to each other when they each pick the same villager.

As for the Hunter, I would not label the classic Hunter a weak Hunter. They are as strong or as weak as their skill and instincts enable them to be. There are a number of different ways to play the classic Hunter role, and therefore great scope for strategic play. If the Hunter always kills a Wolf, then there is much less flexibility to the role. Basically, the only way to play is to act in a way likely to get killed, since your only worth is in being killed, preferably as early as possible. For that reason, I don't really like it. That said, it probably suits the Wizard phase of a Duelling Wizard game where the Gifteds have less scope for using their own discretion anyway. When both Wizards are dead, the Hunter should revert to the classic Hunter role.

The logical Hunter is, as the name suggests, logical. But I think that it makes the role less interesting. Half the fun of the role is in the risk of killing an innocent, at Night as well as during the Day.

As for game balance, it seems to me that this game would have been far more balanced had the EW not been given the opportunity to make two additional Wolves. As a result of this, the EW had one more Wolf than she was strictly entitled to, and it also forced out the GW slightly earlier than he would probably have liked.

05-27-2006, 07:31 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Dueling Wizards Werewolf Suggestion Thread As requested (by Gurthang), I'm starting a thread for Dueling Wizards Werewolf suggestions. Please post to this thread any ideas, questions, suggestions, criticisms, et cetera, you have regarding the game. I promise to post the rules in an orderly outline to this thread. They'll be edited into this first post at a later date (when I have time). Have fun!

05-27-2006, 10:29 PM	#2
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Well, about the GW getting to scry on Night One. I see no reason why s/he should not, after all, the EW already has an easier time of it and not letting the GW scry would be unfair. I was a bit confused at first why you said that in the future it would be a better idea not to let the GW scry Night One. Is it because this creates the opportunity for the GW to discover the EW right off? I think that's remedied easily enough by changing the ruling that the GW/EW find out each others' identities by scrying/cursing the same person. Just maintain the annonymity, unless one of them choses the other one. There is the possibility still that one wizard (or both) will chose the other wizard and find out that way -- but if they are so smart and fortunate as to pick the other wizard out from the whole village on Night One, more power to them. shrug So to sum that ramble up: I would say, keep it so that both the GW and EW get to make picks on Night One, but do not reveal their identities to them if they pick the same person. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

05-28-2006, 10:38 AM	#3
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,637	I would consider posing a posting limit on day one. Over 200 posts on the first day was absurd and I had no chance to read through it all. I felt very detached at the start of the game due to this. I would hate making a hard and fast rule about it but it was just too many post to read in the short time I had. __________________ When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators. -- P. J. O'Rourke

05-28-2006, 12:06 PM	#5
Loki Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 31	I am of the opinion that the night one events should be done as thusly: GW prepares a list of people to scry (Possibly three or four people, as these are common numbers...). Good mod randomly picks one of these as a given gifted. Much like the GW, the EW prepares a list of wolves, and the evil mod randomly chooses wolves from this list. This is done so that neither wizard finds out who the other is on night one. This is done under the premise that the wizards, gifted and wolves had existed prior to Night One, and they simply take action on this Night. Alternate situation: Good Wizard picks gifted, then EW prepares his(her) possible list of wolves, whom are randomly selected from said list. The hunter, also, must choose their kill-- they do not automatically kill any wolves that attack them. I am also of the opinion that the GW should automatically select a seer, but neither of them take any action on Night One. However, these are all my personal choices. The EW has too many other benefits. Also, this game should almost exclusively be played with a large number of players. Else, the EW won't have a chance. Large being over 10. __________________ My, that's a rather sharp piece of wit you've got there. Why don't you let me take that away from you before you cut yourself? Always judge a book by it's cover.

05-29-2006, 10:50 AM	#8
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	The Good Wizard must be able to scry the first night. Otherwise the innocents would be even worse off than they are already. If the GW and the EW pick the same person at night, I would suggest that the person in question simply remains an ordo and that they remain oblivious to the fact that they have been the subject of a wizardly power struggle. There is nor reason, as far as I acn see, why the wizards need be revealed to each other when they each pick the same villager. As for the Hunter, I would not label the classic Hunter a weak Hunter. They are as strong or as weak as their skill and instincts enable them to be. There are a number of different ways to play the classic Hunter role, and therefore great scope for strategic play. If the Hunter always kills a Wolf, then there is much less flexibility to the role. Basically, the only way to play is to act in a way likely to get killed, since your only worth is in being killed, preferably as early as possible. For that reason, I don't really like it. That said, it probably suits the Wizard phase of a Duelling Wizard game where the Gifteds have less scope for using their own discretion anyway. When both Wizards are dead, the Hunter should revert to the classic Hunter role. The logical Hunter is, as the name suggests, logical. But I think that it makes the role less interesting. Half the fun of the role is in the risk of killing an innocent, at Night as well as during the Day. As for game balance, it seems to me that this game would have been far more balanced had the EW not been given the opportunity to make two additional Wolves. As a result of this, the EW had one more Wolf than she was strictly entitled to, and it also forced out the GW slightly earlier than he would probably have liked. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

05-28-2006, 11:19 AM	#4
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	Morm, I don't really think there's much way around it. In a game that starts with 30 people thereabouts, 200 posts is actually less than 10 posts per person (about 6-7), which really is not unreasonable at all; it's probably closer to average. The problem is there are just so many people, and I admit I had difficulties with that as well. But I think that in a game so big you just have to accept that it's going to be like that.

05-29-2006, 09:58 AM	#7
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Okay, let's put this to a vote ... including reasons as you like. What would be better: 1) Both Good and Evil Teams being able to PM all the time. 2) Both Good and Evil Teams being able to PM only at Night. 3) For a really perverse scenario .... ..... Evil team only able to PM during the Day, and Good team only at Night. (only half serious ... could get really interesting)