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Old 07-15-2004, 07:04 PM   #161
One of the Nine
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Cool, our own forum! That'd be nice. Yes, I have been searching for the ever elusive wargs, but there has been nothing so far. I live in the city. Perhaps they don't like the husle and busle of our every day lives here.
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Old 07-16-2004, 10:23 AM   #162
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There is no doubt in my mind that Wargs despise the city, and steer clear of cities at all times.
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Old 07-16-2004, 01:39 PM   #163
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Hmm.... what about corn feilds? they surround the city, and are much more rural. Hmm. I could try that. After the stupid storm lets up, I shall search the cornfields for the ever illusive wargs.
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Old 07-16-2004, 03:47 PM   #164
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Absolutely One of the Nine, you should look wherever you can. Woods, fields, mountains, deserts, anywhere except the places where humans are frequent.

There is a long and unhappy history between humans and Wargs which we have merely touched upon on this thread.
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Old 07-16-2004, 05:22 PM   #165
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Here follows the legend of Aldreus, the first ever man, and the severing of the bond between man and warg:

In the days when the elven-folk came back east and settled in their many abodes having followed Feanor and then having lost faith in him there was born of the earth a man, and he was called Aldreus. Mighty he was, as though carven from granite, and yet his face was the fairest ere eye hath seen on mortal man. He was born a babe from a deep crevice, and on hearing his faint, whimpering child cry there came a warg upon him. That warg's name was not known, but that warg raised the child Aldreus like her own offspring. He was a brother to her litter and a son to bioth her and her husband. For many long years they lived happily together, until Aldreus met another human.

Though Aldreus was the first human, he was not the only, and the maiden he laid his eyes upon was the most beautiful thing he had seen. Bellathia he called her, for she was as glorious as the sun rising.

Aldreus's mother did not want it, though, and she forbade that her son follow the maiden into the woods, for she feared her son would not return. Aldreus knew a rage that burned his eyes, such was its intensity and as his mother slept that night he killed her, slitting that fair and caring mother's throat. As his brothers and sisters woke Aldreus panicked, slaying each one of them. Now his cold blooded rage had consumed him, and as the rain began he ran into the forest, seeking Bellathia. He searched this way and that, but in the pouring rain he became lost, and as the forest closed in around him Aldreus did not notice his father's mighty paw sweep down on the back of his head. So devoured with the pain of searing loss was that warg that he did not kill Aldreus immediately, he bound him and hung him by his feet from a branch some 50ft in the air.

Each day the warg visited until finally Aldreus died, and as he did so he cursed all wargs, but after his passing the warg who had killed him prayed to Eru that with this one act there may come a peace between warg and man. His prayer is yet unanswered.
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Old 07-16-2004, 05:53 PM   #166
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I have found one! His name he will not tell me, but our bond is growing stronger. He is lonely, and has had no rider since the cruel people of the city deemed him a witch and burned him at the stake. I first found his tracks near the edge of the particular cornfield I was searching in, and immediatly took to the trial. I found him later, laying in the sun. So as not to startle him, I let him be until he woke up. He then snarled and bared his teeth until I soothed him, saying that I was a friend. He then began to talk to me. He told me about the many customs of the Wargs and then some that he had started himself. He then told me about his long deseased rider, and then asked me if I would be his new one. We now take rides throught the cornfields, grassy fields, and the occasional mountain. We are having good times, and he says that I am light to his back and an easy rider. How are the rest of you faring in your Warg meetings?
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Old 07-17-2004, 10:39 AM   #167
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Beware, One Of The Nine, wargs should not be treated lightly. You must always treat the noble beast as is becoming of a creature with such regality. To be permitted to ride upon the back of such a fine creature is an honour I have yet to earn, and for many years have I studied the way of the warg.

I feel I owe you all an explanation not for my first absence but for my most recent notable. This was because I was unexpectedly called away to the town of Eastbourne in Sussex. There had been reported cases of a large warg terrorising the beachy head region of Sussex. I spent nine nights camped out below those cliffs, hoping to find some evidence and confront this beast. I was sadly unsuccesful in this task and had no option but to return home empty handed.

How are we all at the warg appreciation thread? I am glad to see so many new names having posted. Welcome to you all!
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Old 07-17-2004, 11:18 AM   #168
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It doesn't surprise me that you found no Warg there Samwise, it sounds like a case of typical human lies, pinning the blame on Wargs for their own misgivings. Your story was apt and fascinating.

So nice to have you back though! You have noticed the vast number of new subscribers to the Thread, I see. Wonderful isn't it? There is hope for humans after all.

One of the Nine, I'm sure you can appreciate how unusual your situation is. Samwise spoke truthfully, caution is yet necessary in your dealings with this Warg. I hope you play this game cleverly. Nevertheless, good luck to you! and keep your stories coming.
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Old 07-17-2004, 12:09 PM   #169
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Yes, cation is a virtue I don't like too much, but must be applied here. I have met my dear Warg again near his home, and he tells me much about his past rider. We together also must be careful because of the ever accusing people of the devious city I am shamed to call my own. Just this morning they accused a poor elderly woman of being in contact with a warg, when in fact, she had only scared one off with her many dogs. They take warg appreciation as treason, knowing a warg worse than treason, and riding a warg like terrorism. So, caution is good in my case here. Although, on a brighter outlook, I am learing some famed warg dances, and his wargliness says that he might be able to bring the warg that lives near a city not to far away here. So, for now, I'm happy with my warg findings.
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:39 PM   #170
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Of recent times on this thread I feel that the great power of wargs has been forgotten. A warg is a creature more noble and honourable than we could ever trully appreciate. Here at the appreciation society we do the best we can to reflect and, well, generally appreciate wargs. However, another word of caution One of the Nine, this warg with which you claim to meet may be a treacherous warg. The haste with which he has befriended you suggests to me that he is tricking you. A warg of nobler spirit would be far more suspicious and less forthcoming, I feel.

I am no expert in warg psychology, though a vast amount of my time in Cambodia during the summer of 1981 was spent researching the field. I feel this is a case of 'Rohan Village Syndrome', that is where a warg befriends you and treats you as an ally only to betray you to a greater power at an opportune moment. Eomer has touched on it before, I believe. The best authority I have for this is in Unravelling The Paradox: A Study In Warg Psychology by Viscount Hughbert Bramble-Heath of Kent, Oxford University Press, 1834:
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Wargs are prone to acts of dispicable treachery. It is unclear as to why they should act in such a fashion... but one thing seems clear: the trick is commonly used against unsuspecting humans and often even against warg-followers.
It was first observed in use against a village in Rohan as a servant of the Warg Rider... betrayed the trust of an entire village save one elderly lady for the purposes of his master.
As a result of this common trait wargs should always be held in some suspicion if their friendship is forthcoming.
There are other authorities, such as Wargs; Lovers, Murderers or Gods? by Albert Erekshon, Collins, 1946, which states quite simply:
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Wargs should not be trusted.
This is a cynical view and I for one do not agree, but the sentiment would be well learned.

Eomer, I would be interested in your opinions on the matter.
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Old 07-17-2004, 06:09 PM   #171
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Except for the word wargs, that was complete gibberish. Tolkien or closed, please.
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Old 07-18-2004, 04:37 PM   #172
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Seriously, we at the Appreciation Thread know all too well that Tolkien wrote little of Wargs and the Warg Rider. That is why we take it upon ourselves to keep the ball in motion, so to speak.
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Old 07-18-2004, 10:19 PM   #173
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Greetings Eomer and all Warg Lovers. This is Fordim, first time poster, long time listener to this thread.

While I do genuinely admire your determination to win for the mighty warg a more honourable place within the legendarium, I am afraid that I must nail the wolf skin to the door on this debate by turning to that source of all human knowledge (in English at least) – the Oxford English Dictionary.

‘Warg’ is simply an archaic word for wolf. So far, so good (if you’re a warg or a warg fan). But when we get into the etymology of the word we find that ‘warg’ comes from the Old English wear or wearh which means: “A felon, outlaw, villain.” The full etymology of the word is depressing reading if you are a subscriber to this thread:

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OE. wear, wearh = OS. warag, OHG. warc, warch criminal, felon (whence Frankish Law Latin vargus outlaw), MHG. warc monster, ON. varg-r outlaw, hence wolf (Sw., Norw. varg, wolf, mod.Icel. vargur fox), Goth. *warg-s (attested by the compound launawargs unthankful person, and the derivatives ga-wargjan to condemn, wargia condemnation):OTeut. *waro-z.

Probable cognates outside Teut. are Lith. vārgas misery, vargti to be wretched, OPrussian wargs suffering (n.), evil, bad (adj.), Lettish wahrgs ill, OSl. vrag (Russian vrag) enemy.
As you can see, the root forms of the word are all grouped around ideas of criminality, outlawry and even outright monstrosity. Even the cognates are connected with conditions that are far from happy.

To be 'warg' is to be bad.

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Old 07-19-2004, 05:24 AM   #174
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Greetings Fordim, and well met!
Your search to the very roots of the fairest language on this world is honourable, and I tip my hat to it, but I feel you miss the ironic stance that the good Professor took. To use a word such as warg, knowing as he would its full meaning, I believe he attempted to baffle and mislead academics and scholars. 'How so?' I hear you ask. Well, allow me to explain.
I feel that Tolkien was showing that by becoming too bogged down and concerned with detail one can often be misled even to the wrong conclusion. I think, and I'm pretty sure that on this thread I'd get plenty of agreement, that if one looks at the bigger picture then wargs are clearly heroic, noble and great (spot the tautology!) beasts worthy of our respect!
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Old 07-19-2004, 09:58 AM   #175
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'Fairest language on this world'? I guess you're entitled to your opinion, Samwise.

Greetings Fordim and many thanks for presenting this information to the Thread. It was certainly a fascinating discovery for me to see the origins of the word warg.

However, I am inclined to believe that this is another example of Tolkien's subtle humour. Does not Gamgee literally mean 'half-wit'? Draw your own conclusions from that.
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:29 PM   #176
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Err I think Samwise means halfwise and Hamfast means stay-at-home..... Gamgee is a kind of lint or cotton-wool covered in gauze ....
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:33 PM   #177
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Ah, my mistake Mithalwen and thank you for pointing it out. You are, of course, correct.
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Old 07-19-2004, 09:09 PM   #178
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so in all basicality, wargs are big, intelligent, talking wolves who can easily be corrupted to evil?
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Old 07-20-2004, 10:09 AM   #179
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If a small child asked the question "What is a Warg?" then that would be an appropriate answer NirvanaII. However, to learn the truth, one must seek deeper answers. This Appreciation Thread is probably the next step. After that, there is a wealth of Warg-related literature available.
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Old 07-20-2004, 11:19 AM   #180
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Quote:
so in all basicality, wargs are big, intelligent, talking wolves who can easily be corrupted to evil?
This is perhaps basically true, but 'basic' is itself a word which should not be associated with wargs. Wargs are complicated, intricate and diverse creatures, most certainly not basic. I think a fairer statement may be: wargs are huge, with the intelligence of many wise men and the communication skills of all but the most gifted elves. They are, however, prone to downfall. Similar, Nirvana II , but different for it gives a better sense of the warg and all its glory.

Here at the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread we aim to give wargs all the glory and honour they deserve. For many years the warg has been persecuted by ignorant men who know nothing of the ancient ways and majesty of these great creatures. It must stop. So, starting here we fellow warg appreciators must band together, sharing our joyous tales of wargs and educating the masses to the truth: wargs are our friends.
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Old 07-21-2004, 06:52 AM   #181
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Well said Samwise, it has been a while since we had a good old-fashioned tale. There are a host of Warg-related tales just waiting to be told, the only hard part is deciding Which one to tell first?
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:57 PM   #182
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but how many wargs had the intelligence of wise men???is it documented? could a warg solve any riddle i gave them?
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Old 07-24-2004, 10:56 AM   #183
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A greater proportion of Wargs are wise, compared with Men. A far greater proportion.
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Old 07-25-2004, 06:55 AM   #184
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Naturally, Nirvana II, a normal warg could not solve any riddle you gave it. For example- 'What have I got in my pockets?' However, a normal warg would be far more able to solve a riddle than a normal man. And the most wise of wargs could solve the above riddle, for they have powers of telepathy.

One thing, however, you must keep in mind: wisdom is not the solving of riddles.
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Old 07-25-2004, 08:32 AM   #185
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Indeed, if there was a children's book with adventures similar to The Hobbit but instead called The Warg it would be an altogether darker affair. Riddles and games are associated with Hobbits. However knowledge, strength and wisdom are associated with Wargs.

It reminds me of a news article sometime ago. There was a jester performing in the street. He was a small chubby fellow with a large cheery face. Using the art of mime, he mocked all sorts of animals to the amusement of his (human) crowd. Out of nowhere, a Warg appeared and ripped him to shreds. Surely a lesson to take seriously those things which demand it.

Makes you think...
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Old 07-25-2004, 06:26 PM   #186
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Eomer I've come to a conclusion and I have to say.......you must really like wargs. Quite frankly your speaking so passionatly about wargs is what made me read this thread. I also have a little something to say about our belovedly snarling, and furry friends. During highschool I was ordered to read the epic novel Beowulf by the urgings of my teacher who wanted to help me expand my knowledge of Tolkiens readings. With Beowulf being one of Tolkiens favourite novels, I was more than happy to accept the challenge. I absolutley adored the novel. And I couldn't help noticing something. I had read LOTR long before I read Beowulf. With that being said I found myself using the same images I had for the wargs for my image of the deamon creature Grendal. My thoughts are that Tolkien loved the creature Grendal so dearly he felt he sort of needed to pay homage to this incredible being but with much greater numbers and savagery involved. Wargs are incredible creatures. They added another sense of ominous power to the unseen evil that is the Drak Lord.
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Old 07-26-2004, 04:57 AM   #187
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But, ninlaith, there is so much more to wargs than savagery and blood-letting! So deep, diverse and wonderful are they!

I think that perhaps Tolkien wasn't following the lead of Beowulf, but trying to rectify its harsh treatment of wolf-like creatures- and so the warg was created! Hallelujah!

The thing that we must remember here at the appreciation thread is that the wargs which did appear in LOTR(book) represented only a tiny minority of the warg population. On the whole wargs were not 'servants' of evil, but pleasant creatures, trying to impart wisdom to others and generally be nice. In fact, there is an interesting tale of wargs doing just that and being shunned by their helpees. I hope to post it soon. Until then, farewell.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:15 AM   #188
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Even so. It's not that I meant wargs were evil creatures such as Grendal. Just that they were magnificent beings up to Grendals caliber. I just felt Tolkien wanted to pay homage to this creature be it a good way or a bad way. He seemed to love the wargs himself.
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Old 07-27-2004, 06:54 AM   #189
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I would not disagree with that ninlaith, and by the way, if we haven't already welcomed you to The Appreciation Thread (I honestly can't remember, people tend to come and go) then you are due a hearty welcome!

I look forward to this tale Samwise. No doubt it will have me holding back the tears.
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Old 07-27-2004, 08:58 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamwiseGamgee
Naturally, Nirvana II, a normal warg could not solve any riddle you gave it. For example- 'What have I got in my pockets?' However, a normal warg would be far more able to solve a riddle than a normal man. And the most wise of wargs could solve the above riddle, for they have powers of telepathy.

One thing, however, you must keep in mind: wisdom is not the solving of riddles.
i was just using the solving of riddles as an example

are wargs extremely fast?
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:06 AM   #191
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Wargs run like the wind. There is no escaping the fact that every single Warg is remarkably fast. In general Wargs are just amazing physical specimens.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:11 PM   #192
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Apologies for taking so long on my tale of the Origin of Wargs, but I have been delayed by some smugdes in the text that have necessitated travel to the janitor's closet at Marquette University, where the reallly hush-hush Tolkien documents are kept. Therein I am sure I will find the missing pieces to the tale. Apparently Aulė was up to no good again, but that's all I'll say.
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Old 07-30-2004, 11:07 AM   #193
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You have us all salivating with anticipation Diamond.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:46 PM   #194
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I was wondering today while driving all over this country of mine what the warg view on motorised transport is. What do they feel about the environmental impact of the automobile upon their natural lands? I can imagine the answer, but if anyone has any authority laying out the warg point of view I would find it most interesting.
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Old 07-30-2004, 03:56 PM   #195
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The only point of relevance which I can add just now is this. I remember hearing about a year ago of an assault upon the local bus station. The culprits were clearly Wargs. The event had all the trademarks of a Wargian assault. I would not be at all surprised if Wargs despised man-made transport. As well as sharing the Professor's point of view about toxicity, the invention benefits the race of Men in their struggle against Wargs, a struggle which they have a better chance of winning nowadays.
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Old 07-30-2004, 04:48 PM   #196
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I'm back and in full health. I have met a whole host of wargs, being very careful to be on their good side. They are very interesting, and have taught me some of their scratchy language. Well, I'm off to learn more with my beloved wargs.
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Old 07-31-2004, 02:54 PM   #197
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White-Hand

I've caught the warg fascination bug... And now am wondering where the best place to find one is... Should I look in the mountains or in fields or in the forest? I tend to associate them with mountains, but am not sure.
Also, back in the early days of Middle-Earth, how were the wargs created? (After all, when going out looking for a warg, one must know as much as possible about them! )
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:02 PM   #198
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Ah! the origin of Wargs! There is a debate in which we have only scratched the surface of the content, here at the Appreciation Thread. For I don't believe Tolkien ever mentioned from whence they came. Please, list your ideas.

By the way, so nice of you to join us Azaelia. May your fascination with Wargs be long and healthy!
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:49 PM   #199
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Tolkien The Origin of Wargs

It is told that in their beginning the Wargs were made by Aulė in the darkness of Middle-earth; for Aulė was mighty headstrong and the whole Dwarf incident had not taught him his lesson.

Aulė wrought the Wargs in secret under the mountains of Middle-earth, crafting their magnifcent bodies to be strong and unyielding. He made them much larger than Dwarves, and gave them a form of the kelvar, like unto wolves since as far as humanoid forms went, he'd already been there and done that. Yet he also made the Wargs things of beauty and elegance, and gave to them minds capable of infinite knowledge and wisdom.

Now Ilśvatar knew what was done, as always, and in the very hour when Aulė's work was complete, and he was giddy with pleasure, and began to instruct the Wargs in the speech he had devised for them, Ilśvatar spoke to him; and Aulė heard his voice and was silent, thus ending this run on sentence. "Why hast thou done this? Why hast thou done what I told thee not to do, again? What part of 'don't do this stuff anymore' dost thou not understand?"

Then Aulė scuffed his sneakers on the floor and shoved his hands in his pockets, shrugging. "I dunno," he mumbled.

And then Ilśvatar took up a gigantic hammer with teeth on the end, and said to the Wargs, "I know what thou art thinking. Is he going to forgive Aulė again or not? Well, to tell thee the truth, I can't really decide. But being as this is a 44 pound meat tenderizer, the most powerful hammer in the world, and would flatten thine heads to little pancakes, thou hast got to ask thyselves one question: Do we feel lucky? Well, do ya punks?"

And the Wargs shrank from the hammer and were afraid, and they bowed their heads and begged for mercy. Wargs are fearless, noble creatures, but this is Eru we're talkin' about here.

And Aulė said, "Noooooo!" and flung himself in front of the hammer. "I am the one who is in the wrong, kill me and let them live!" he pleaded.

But Ilśvatar took compassion upon Aulė and his creatures, and put aside the hammer. "Oh alright," he said. "But next time someone is going to get it, verily."

Aulė began to thank him profusely, but Ilśvatar held up a mighty hand and added, "Finished I am not. Since thou hast so presumptuously wrought creatures in secret not once but twice, still there is a punishment thou must endure. These creatures, so noble and magnificent, shall be cursed ever onward to live a dual existence. Moreso than any other creature shall they be prone to the extremities of good and evil -- thou hast given them great minds capable of much wisdom, and bodies capable of great strength, and now I also give to them teeth and jaws of totally wicked awesomeness, much like my Hammer of Death. It will ever be a struggle for them to use this gift for things that are good, pure, and just. And always they shall be misunderstood and loathed by my Children."

"Sounds fair," said Aulė. "Nonetheless, they will have need of meat."
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Old 08-02-2004, 06:07 AM   #200
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It was definitely worth the wait. Bravo!

It certainly explains a lot. Any idea who devised this legend, Diamond?
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