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Old 05-15-2006, 10:49 AM   #281
Thinlómien
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I feel the village is dividing into two camps. I predict that there will be a battle for votes between Nogrod and Lalaith today. Oddwen and I may receive votes as well. If I had to choose between Nog and Lal, I'd vote Nogrod. Lalaith feels quite innocent to me.

Most people think Nogrod might be a wolf. I think he could even be the Evil Wizard.

Kath, I agree my plan has faults. I think it could be used as a general guideline. Or at least I'm using it as such. If there's a person I'm pretty sure that she's a wolf, I will of course vote her rather than a random EW suspect.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:59 AM   #282
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commenting as I'm reading the thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cailín
(Oh, and, if the evil wizard is Fea, these would have been her wolves: Loki, Lalaith and Lhunardawen. I shall support this theory for now, as it seems to be no less rational or irrational than anything we come up with.)
Hang on, that's not true at all. I'd have loved to be the wizard and anybody that knows me would know it, but what with all of my [shepherdessing], I just haven't the time for those sorts of shenanigans. I want no wolves near my sheep, thanks much.

However, this is why it's that much more wrong: If I was EW, I wouldn't have picked them. Well... not two of them. Loki, yes. Lalaith and Lhuna, no. I'd have picked Loki, the phantom, and JennyHallu. One newbie to be taken for granted, one "yeah freaking right", and one just subtle enough to make a right evil wolf. That and Jen's been evil so often that I wouldn't want to break with tradition.

Next night would be morm, next would be Cailin. Actually, I might have tossed Nilp into the mix. I like my variety, wouldn't you know.

Still, I'm dead curious as to why you picked Lalaith and Lhuna for me and why you support the theory of Fea=EW.

Next tangent: I liked the cannon fodder idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimè
F....f....fe.... ahem. It's you, right? Just a guess. [img]ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Keep guessing.

Here's my afternoon schedule: stop procrastinating and write a story due at 2:15; go to class; work; don't get back until the Day is over.

So I have to vote for somebody.

Since Roa denies being "the friend," I'm now fascinated by her strong defense of Loki.

Why would anybody be defending anybody unless they had a reason? If her reason isn't that they're the friends, what is it? Since I don't have any more time to ponder, I'm going to go with that reasoning. She defended somebody very staunchly and that's a stupid idea in such an unpredictable village.

++ROA
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:02 AM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil
So I have to vote for somebody.

Since Roa denies being "the friend," I'm now fascinated by her strong defense of Loki.

Why would anybody be defending anybody unless they had a reason? If her reason isn't that they're the friends, what is it? Since I don't have any more time to ponder, I'm going to go with that reasoning. She defended somebody very staunchly and that's a stupid idea in such an unpredictable village.
Maybe the reson could simply be that she didn't believe him to be a baddie?
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:05 AM   #284
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Quote:
Since Roa denies being "the friend," I'm now fascinated by her strong defense of Loki.

Why would anybody be defending anybody unless they had a reason? If her reason isn't that they're the friends, what is it? Since I don't have any more time to ponder, I'm going to go with that reasoning. She defended somebody very staunchly and that's a stupid idea in such an unpredictable village.
But didn't Loki die innocent? As from what I know of Roa she likes to support the one who seems to be under the most fire. And anywho, past experiences tell me never trust a Fea... Now then, unfortunately I haven't been able to read through the entire thread (Evil, evil, evil illness! and also random distractions) but anyway since I don't think I'll be able to get anything reasonable formed before the deadline (or rather my bed-time) -

++Feanor

Edit: Cross-posted with Thinlomien.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:06 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
Maybe the reson could simply be that she didn't believe him to be a baddie?
I'm not discounting the possibility. Still, I had to vote for somebody and she was as good a choice as any, given the circumstances.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:09 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy Ranger
But didn't Loki die innocent? As from what I know of Roa she likes to support the one who seems to be under the most fire.
Yes he did, but nobody (okay, almost nobody) knew his innocence before his death. And my lorebooks are woefully inadequate in the Roa section. The index reads: "Roa - see "Villagers You Don't Really Know."

Okay... I'm really going to stop procrastinating now. Paper... due at 2:15... must write it...

*tears self away from village*
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:20 AM   #287
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Fea, I thought the reasons I gave for my defense of Loki were quite good. If you disagree, you're welcome to do so, but I'd like an explanation. I'd also like to point out that I was not the only one who deemed Loki innocent. At least Morm and Firefoot believed the same as I, and there may have been others, but I'm not really aware of them at the moment. As for me being just as good a choice as any, there are plenty of suspcions being thrown around today, some of which have actually good backings behind them. Maybe you should check a bit more carefully before you accuse.

And as a notice to everyone, please do not just throw away your votes randomly. We are beyond day one, and nothing has really changed except for one player switching from good to evil. We have 8 pages of evidence. randomness is not needed. Please give more thought to your votes.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:23 AM   #288
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There has been lots of talk today so far....I see I have a vote....from Nilp! I will not defend myself on this because looking at crossposting is no way to find a wolf! Now I did find it odd that SPM got killed last night.I would have thought the wolves would want to keep him around, seeing as he gets lots of suspicion...I have many thoughts on who I think could be baddies, but not much to back them up with yet...I will post my thoughts anyways since my gut seems to be right alot of the time, even if noone notices till after I'm dead...

Baddies?

Celuien
Caranlondien
Spawn
Lhuna
Glirdan
Kitanna
Firefoot
Alcarillo
Cailin
Oddwen
Azaelia
Lalaith
Naria
Eonwe
Gurthang


Goodies?

Diamond
Roa
Lommy
Nogrod
Kath
Sleepy
Mormegil
Valier
Feanor
Phantom
Jenny
Eomer
Nilp

Ok I know there is alot of Baddies, but some I could not put down as Goodies yet so they stay there for now....My biggest suspects for toDay would be....Celuien, Caran, Kitanna, Naria, Alcarillo .Not that I have any concrete evidence yet, but I go with what I feel and toDay I thought of these....I will be around for the rest of the day, so I will have more time to read through and post some more.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:26 AM   #289
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Roa, you speak much sense. I have also been wondering about Nogrod. It also irked me that his voting tallies were so far off...it is unlike him to be so careless.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:27 AM   #290
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I must go now.

++Nogrod

I fear he's the evil wizard. He might be a wolf as well.

x-posted with Jenny
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:34 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith
Roa, Cara: perhaps the reason the changed wolf didn't come forward is that s/he didn't want to die. Because as a known innocent, s/he would have been a prime candidate for eating in the night.
I have considered that, and it's possible. But if it is the case, then they're not doing what's best for the village. The wolves are going to kill an innocent every night, and even worse, they might kill a gifted. Letting us know if our reasoning is going in the wrong direction would help us, and it would only lead to what's going to happen anyway: the death of an innocent.

The voting thus far: (and please correct me if I'm wrong)

1. Nilp --> Valier (Valier 1)
2. Celuien --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 1)
3. Oddwen --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 2)
4. Diamond --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1)
5. Feanor --> Roa (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1)
6. Sleepy --> Feanor (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
7. Lommy --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 2, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:34 AM   #292
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One thing I just noticed......Was the GW not supposed to pick another gifted last night? I see on the tally that there is only one gifted....Did I miss something?
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:37 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valier
One thing I just noticed......Was the GW not supposed to pick another gifted last night? I see on the tally that there is only one gifted....Did I miss something?
The first night, we didn't get a gifted, because the GW scried one of the werewolves. The GW did get us a gifted last night, so now we're at 1.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:42 AM   #294
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OOOHHHHH Now I see!! Thanks
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:52 AM   #295
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I'm off to complete my weaving now, and it is unlikely that I'll be back on before voting closes, so I'm going to vote now.

++Nogrod

And I'd just like to say that if he is a wolf, then I'm going to throw my head back and laugh, because for once he's on the evil side and I'm not! (It's about bloody time.)
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Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 05-15-2006 at 11:53 AM. Reason: Forgot to bold my vote
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:04 PM   #296
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Valier, what did you think the whole issue with Loki was about then?

I'm not sure about Nogrod. He might be the EW or Wolf, you say? You make some good points, but the reason alone that he has changed his behaviour isn't very convincing. Wolves might change the way they act while they try to figure out how they could look the most innocent, but a Wolf or not, if someone is about to get lynched because of the way he acts, sure it's quite a natural thing to start acting differently then. I'm intrigued to find out if Nogrod really is a baddie, but I won't make my voting decision yet (although I have to make it soon).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith
Spawn, you misunderstood me. Three wolves were picked by the EW. One would be, in my theory, "cannon fodder". This would NOT be the same wolf that was changed back.
Ah, now it makes more sense! I still rather disagree with your theory, but it's not so relevant here.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:07 PM   #297
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Spawn, if you'll go back a page, you'll see my analysis of Nogrod, and it gives more reasons for suspicion than a change in behavior.

Okay, okay, I'm going back to work now.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:13 PM   #298
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Eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
but it's possible the pick was extremely careful and strategic, in which case I want to watch for people doing certain things today, because there are certain things someone does if they make a kill for a certain reason.
Well, in going over the posts, I'm not seeing much of the behavior I had my eyes open for, so I'm guessing Sauce's murder has simple reasoning behind it.

A couple of reasons to kill Sauce-
1) My willingness to trust him (not just mine, but the village in general). More than one person yesterday suggested that Sauce would not make a good wolf (especially early), and that was very true. So why let someone live who is intelligent, innocent, and likely to be trusted?
2) With all the talk about Sauce being a likely Seer dream, perhaps the Wolves (or EW) was hoping to render the Seer's Night 2 dream worthless. You see, if the Seer had dreamed of Sauce on Night 2 and then the Wolves killed him, there might as well have been no dream at all. If that was the motivation behind the killing, I was probably a candidate as well. Unless, of course, the EW wants to make me a Wolf late- after the Seer has dreamed of me. Just in case that is his strategy, I would like to suggest to the Seer that you wait to dream of me for a good while. You don't want me to become a Wolf after I'm trusted! Now, naturally if I'm turned into a Wolf I will regret giving this advice because my loyalty will then be to the EW and his cause, but for now (and I hope, until death) my loyalty is to the village and the GW.

GW, if you really want to find out about me early on (in case I'm the EW, which I hope you see as unlikely) and you also want to keep tabs on me until death (in case the EW tries to turn me), I suppose you could make me your Hunter. That way, if I'm cursed you'll know, plus the curse wouldn't create a Phantom-wolf, it would only create a Phantom-ungifted. But only do that if you have a Wolf target to give me. I don't want to be responsible for accidentally killing the Seer with my Hunter gift.

Also, only do that if you don't mind losing a gifted. I doubt the EW and Wolves plan on allowing me to live more than a couple days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by My mom
After yesterDay, I should think the EW would have chosen someone inconspicuous last Night. Numbers, not the composition of the team, are probably most important to him at the moment.
I agree. Later on, if he survives that long, the EW will round out his pack by selecting some louder, lynchable sorts, but probably not right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lal
perhaps the reason the changed wolf didn't come forward is that s/he didn't want to die. Because as a known innocent, s/he would have been a prime candidate for eating in the night.
And no, it's not me.

Which brings me to my Saucie theory, which I wanted to wait on a while. It's more unlikely than the cannon-fodder one so I will stress it's only a theory - but maybe he was the changed wolf. And that's why he was killed.
That was one idea that I had. I agree that it's unlikely, but it's still a good thought.

All right. Here's a list of a few suspects. It's not random, but at the same time you shouldn't put much faith in it. The only way any of us are going to get more than one or two things right at this point is by luck.

GW: Roa or Eomer
EW: Nilp or Firefoot
Wolves: Diamond, Kitanna, Celuien, or Glirdan
Seer: like I'd tell
Totally Innocent: morm, Gurthang, Spawn

Oh, and one more thing. If some people continue to be super quiet (3 posts or less per day, and not saying much) I think we should just lynch them. They could be a hiding EW or Wolf. Worst case scenario, they are an unhelpful innocent who gives us nothing to base suspicions on. Those sorts should be slain.

Later on today, I'll provide some helpful information for the GW and future gifteds.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:26 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife
Spawn, if you'll go back a page, you'll see my analysis of Nogrod, and it gives more reasons for suspicion than a change in behavior.
I've read it, and it was an interesting one. I've understood that it's rather your habit to suspect Nogrod and vice versa, so I'm not sure how unbiased it is, though, and if you're a baddie, sure you would make up a case for old times sake starting from scratch? No offense, of course.

I haven't really suspected you, and I'll go rereading your post. My vote, whomever it may be for, will follow after that.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:27 PM   #300
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I'm going back and forth on my main suspects - Nogrod or Lommy? With both of them, my main reason for suspicion is a gut feeling that something is off. I also think we should consider The Phantom's plan about lynching the quiet people; normally I'm opposed to such things, but in such a large village, I can see the necessity. However, for toDay I think I'll be voting for either Nogrod or Lommy.

Roa and Sleepy are going to be so mad if I vote for my little sister...

1. Nilp --> Valier (Valier 1)
2. Celuien --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 1)
3. Oddwen --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 2)
4. Diamond --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1)
5. Feanor --> Roa (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1)
6. Sleepy --> Feanor (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
7. Lommy --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 2, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
8. Roa --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 3, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:37 PM   #301
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As far as Loki was concerned, for what it's worth, I think he was someone who liked attention.
That was why I thought he might possibly be someone who had been wolfed under my cannon-fodder theory, because the EW would know it was likely he would do something that would make it easy to get lynched.

I still, now that we know he was innocent when he died, think he was someone who liked attention, and I don't think he was the unwolfed wolf. It would be way too risky for the GW to have had him as a Seer, he had no form, and seemed, in the prelim chat, unclear even as to what WW entailed (confusing it with RP).
If I'm wrong, I offer posthumous apologies.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:38 PM   #302
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Note Concerning Noggie

Nogrod just called me and asked me to come here and tell that his internet access is not working at the moment but he's trying to fix it. He might not be able to get online toDay.

Bye.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:39 PM   #303
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Quote:
Diamond=
My lorebook (a bit singed but otherwise none the worse for wear) notes that often people are killed to divert suspicion onto those they were erroneously pointing fingers at. In fact, an ancestor of mine was killed for a somewhat simliar reason, prior to her death she pointed fingers at three people in particular, none of whom turned out guilty.
Quote:
Celuien=
If I operate under the assumption that SPM was killed for getting something right, this looks bad for Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang. I wonder, though, if Alcarillo would have agreed to the wolvish plan of attack on Saucy as it’s a little too risky a position to put him in since he voted for SPM yesterday as well as being voted for by SPM.
Diamond and Celuien both make good points. Celuien points out those SpM mentioned as possible EW and Diamond says SpM could have been killed to lead us away from the real wolves and EW. It is also possible SpM was killed, not because he was on the trail or because he was a diversion, but simply because everyone knows how intelligent he is and he would probably be the one to root out the EW. So he was taken care of early in order to keep him from ruining the EW's plans.
Quote:
Glirdan=
Those who voted SpM are - Jenny and Alcarillo.

Now, this looks, as Celuien said, bad for Alcarillo. However, I don't see it like that. The way I think of it, I find that this actually speaks in Alcarillo's favor. Why, if he voted for him the Day before, would he want to attack him at Night if he knew that it would put suspicion on him. And if he was one of the two Wolves, why would he sacrifice himself if there was only the two? Now, Alcarillo is a kiniving player but I don't see why he would be as bold as this.
I agree for the most part that this is in Alcarillo's favor. But it doesn't clear him. Alcarillo could have been anticipating the village reaction and killed SpM knowing we would look at the fact he voted for him. I don't have much suspicion for Alcarillo at the moment, but a bluff like this is a possibilty.
Quote:
Glirdan=
Then there's Jenny who wasn't on that list of possible EW picks. Is it possible that she is one of the Wolves? The way I see it is that if she is a Wolf, after seeing that list, she thought "Hey! He doesn't think I have potential to be a possible EW candidate!"
Couldn't this little scenario work for various other players as well? Granted Jenny voted for SpM, but I think this is too risky for Jenny (and Alcarillo) to attempt so early. But as I said before it is possible.
Quote:
Eomer=
The more I think about it the more I realise that sweet Kitanna would be a brilliant pick from the EW.
Argh, my family was right about you. Suspecting your beloved? What kind of a man are you?
Quote:
Cailin=
I'd stay away from Nilp, who is really too insane to be trusted, even after seeming sensible yesterDay.
And because Nilp is insane I think of him as an innocent at this point in time.

To be continued...
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:42 PM   #304
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I'm currently at post 281 and trying to read as fast as my poor little eyeballs will let me but reading the suspicion of Nogrod it seems to strike true to me and I have little doubt that he is a wolf. I forget if it was Roa or who that posted his post summary but something else I gleaned from it is that shortly after there was a suspcion raised of him because of his relative silence he began posting again with renewed vigor, yet he posted little and gave recaps of voting; which to me seems an attempt to artificially inflate his post count thus giving us the appearance of saying a lot but not really sayin much at all. Plus it was him that truly incited Loki and not the other way around. Loki died because of this and I don't think it was Loki that was being rude but simply abrasive in his defense.

I'm not certain if I will be able to get back...I will make my best attempt but to ensure that I get my vote in today.

++Nogrod
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:47 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
Nogrod just called me and asked me to come here and tell that his internet access is not working at the moment but he's trying to fix it. He might not be able to get online toDay.

Bye.
Thanks Lommy! Even though this was a short-lived message. (I had tried to get online almost an hour before I called her - and then, naturally, managed to do it in the next ten minutes... )

I see things are moving on again. But I have to see to them first.

Really Roa, you seem to be quite happy about promoting my lynch... *ahem*, I think I have heard you blame someone else for a monomaniac lynch-thrive very lately... And really, as I said before, you should give me at least some credit for not being a total idiot - to which your earlier accusations heavily grounded.

I'll see to them - and to all these other things too.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:52 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom
Oh, and one more thing. If some people continue to be super quiet (3 posts or less per day, and not saying much) I think we should just lynch them.
Right now that would be about a third of the Village. Still, if there isn't a good EW / Wolf lynchee on some Day, getting rid of a silent Villager would at least clear things up.

Anyway, I'll vote for

++Oddwen

because I really didn't like the way she cast her vote toDay... yes, that's the main reason. Also, I could come up with theories like how Sauce was killed because he thought Oddwen on Day 1 innocent, and she tried to make us believe that she'd never kill someone who's stood up for her. She's posted only four times with very little substance, so my vote may be considered as a "lynch the non-contributing people" vote, too, if you want to.

Good Night, make wise decisions!
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:52 PM   #307
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Interruption for a (not so) brief announcement & responses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith
It is a great pity about the Seer not getting a dream in. I seem to remember some talk of the Nights being prolonged if business had not been concluded therein. I take it that no longer applies? I hope the wolves and EW will also be subjected to strict time constraints, that's all.
Prolonging Nights will remain under consideration. Until a decision has been made to go from 24 hours to 36 or 48, any activity that is not achieved (told to the sub-mods/mod) by 6pm EDT, will be considered not to have happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith
Another question I have, what rules does our great Seal-in-the-Sky intend to apply to non-voters and non-posters?
As has been said before .... (great Seal-in-the-Sky glares at Lalaith) .... with the village so numerous, absent players will be excused by the moderator. The players may of course use absence as a reason for lynching or killing as they wish. As soon as the village is reduced to 12 players, day-long absences will cease to be tolerated and will result in eviction from the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith
The wolves - there were only two last night and presumably they either came, via their mod, to some arrangement, or the EW picked one of their two choices, or the EW may even have made a few suggestions to them regarding their kill, if such things are permissible.
Please do re-read the rules, and you will see what is and is not permissible, especially in this regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalaith
...the J Geils Band....
Praytell what lorebook this reference is from? (Moderator again glares at Lalaith)
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:54 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom

Oh, and one more thing. If some people continue to be super quiet (3 posts or less per day, and not saying much) I think we should just lynch them. They could be a hiding EW or Wolf. Worst case scenario, they are an unhelpful innocent who gives us nothing to base suspicions on. Those sorts should be slain
I for one completely disagree with this! I am a quiet villager, so are some of the others, but this does not make me unhelpful! I find this game in particular hard to keep up with, but according to my lorebooks my ancestors were always reserved in posting, but almost always made good choices when it came to wolf catching....in fact I find here *points to lorebook* that one of my ancestors actually won an award for being a Werewolf slayer I do however hate it when people only come on once during the Day and post and vote and that is it...coughcoughNilpcoughcough This is unhelpful, but posting three posts daily is not necissarily odd for some players...
I find it annoying when people keep posting over and over with absolutely nothing of any value being said...
I for one usual don't say much, and am not so good at figuring out how or why I suspect someone, but it ususal turns out for the better, so please do not lynch people just because they don't post enough for your liking
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:13 PM   #309
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phantom please don't try to lynch those who don't post all that often. I make few posts but try to get my feelings and ideas across in those. Just because I speak less than you doesn't mean my ideas are less valid and I should be lynched. Posting once a day just to vote with no reasoning would be a sound reason for lynching though.

Now, somewhere around here there was a list, aha:
GW: Roa or Eomer
EW: Nilp or Firefoot
Wolves: Diamond, Kitanna, Celuien, or Glirdan
Seer: like I'd tell
Totally Innocent: morm, Gurthang, Spawn

I can see where you're coming from on the Nilp front. He didn't vote for himself and has been helpful, which generally means he is something other than an ordo. But why do you assume he is the EW and not the GW?

As for the others on that list I have no idea. Except that morm is of course guilty

And I wanted to ask. Why was it decided that the GW should not reveal sooner rather than later? I realise I could go back and look, but there's so much to read through it would likely be quicker if someone just told me!
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:27 PM   #310
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Where'd everybody go? I'm going to have to go now, and I'm not sure what time I'll be back. It could be an hour before the deadline (which appears to be 11 not 10 GMT) but it could be after it so:

++NOGROD

I was suspicious of him earlier and things people have said have only served to strengthen those suspicions.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:30 PM   #311
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*prostrates self before Great Seal* thank you for your elucidation, oh one of fearsome bark and mighty flipper.

As for that last glare, oh dear, while I knew this frivolity lark might lead to trouble, I never thought it would actually get me in hot water with the Great Seal himself.
I refer to Diamond's post #13 (unlucky it seems for me) where she referred to me both as an angel and a centrefold.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:31 PM   #312
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I think the GW should stay hidden until they have made all three gifted, then if they choose to they should reveil themselves. If they reveil, the EW would then challenge him/her right away? I am still a little confused over this...(I should reread the rules) Doesn't the GW learn the EW's identity when they come forward? Do they have to challenge each other right away? I guess the GW would want to so there would be no more werewolf making, but wouldn't they(GW) want to stick around for awhile even though they are known? Because they still have the ability to change werewolves back and regift anyone that gets degifted.


So all in all....sorry if this stuff above was useless to say... I think the GW should remain hidden as long as possible.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:43 PM   #313
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Just as clarification, if the GW comes forward, that does not give him knowledge as to the identity of the EW. And there is no rule, I believe, saying that the wizards must challenge each other as soon as they know one another's identities.

I'm still suspicious of Lommy, but moreso of Nogrod. As I have to leave now, I'll vote:

++Nogrod

1. Nilp --> Valier (Valier 1)
2. Celuien --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 1)
3. Oddwen --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 2)
4. Diamond --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1)
5. Feanor --> Roa (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1)
6. Sleepy --> Feanor (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
7. Lommy --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 2, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
8. Roa --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 3, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
9. mormegil --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 4, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
10. dancing spawn --> Oddwen (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 4, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
11. Kath --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 5, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
12. Caran --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 6, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:48 PM   #314
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As I am again leading the tally, I guess I will be allowed some defence.

I'll start with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant
= referring to Roa's analysis on me
I've read it, and it was an interesting one. I've understood that it's rather your habit to suspect Nogrod and vice versa, so I'm not sure how unbiased it is, though, and if you're a baddie, sure you would make up a case for old times sake starting from scratch? No offense, of course.
It seems, that one of Roa's main point is, that I have intentionally tried to do everything possible - from the first minutes of the game onwards - to lynch Loki.
1) That would be the most stupid wolf-tactics I can imagine. Just pure madness. I'm not an idiot Roa, and thence am a bit offenced by your theorizing.
2) I think that accusation fits you even better than me, as you really have been on me from your first visit here onwards (in this game). And quite happily, almost everyone have forgotten, that you were gathering some suspicion before you really ran rampant on me.

Quote:
= Roa
Then, Nogrod makes a point of suspecting the people who voted for him- one very wolfish tactic, to be sure.
Not so. I tried to say, that the people who had voted for me had no good reasons behind their votes and so were ill-informed (or random = Eomer). I never said or meant, they were wolvish votes!

Quote:
He also seems quite eager to have us believe that the wizards wouldn't pick someone who was loud, but would rather pick under the radar type players. He expresses this point three times in 4 posts. It seems quite clearly an attempt to throw suspicion away from him.
It is just trying to note the obvious and important thing about this game's dynamics! That's the way it goes. You'll see it, as the game continues. No wise EW would recruit loudmouths to her/his wolves in the beginning: with 30-villagers two or three quiet ones slip every radar. It's just more secure to the EW, to pile up more wolves that way. Just look at the DAY1 voting tally, who are there but those who speak a lot and arouse feelings? So who were safe? (Two or three I said? Yes, s/he could do well to add one experienced and skilful wolf to the team, just in case the wizard battle comes true before the EW is ready for it) I'm not sad about the fact, that this will make me look innocent. But that's only the "my side of the coin".

Quote:
Also, Day 1 saw very little of Nogrod's usual theorizing and discussion, and while he had quite a few posts, they were of little substance.
Somewhat true, but I had no time to it. I only came home late and was too tired - and had drunk too many beers during the day to be more than in for just first day banter (the early day, game time - late night on my RL).

Quote:
= Morm
I forget if it was Roa or who that posted his post summary but something else I gleaned from it is that shortly after there was a suspcion raised of him because of his relative silence he began posting again with renewed vigor, yet he posted little and gave recaps of voting; which to me seems an attempt to artificially inflate his post count thus giving us the appearance of saying a lot but not really sayin much at all.
Mostly we post as we have time. You know it Morm. The recap issue I find odd also (it's noted by Roa too). And as Roa already noted, I tend to do a lot of them, as I want to see where we are going (I'm going to make one after this just to see, where we are now).
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:49 PM   #315
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Quote:
Celuien=
Gurthang has been relatively quiet, which makes me uneasy, but what he has said doesn't strike me as wolvish. Besides, he agrees with the phantom about the wizards, which seems to be a good thing.
Unless of course Gurthang is trying to latch on to the idea to appear innocent. But I doubt Gurthang is guilty of wizardry or wolvery. At least yesterday I was convinced of his innocence mainly because he put forth the EW and GW idea, which makes me think he was innocent yesterday and I still feel he's most likely an innocent today, but he bears some watching.
Quote:
Roa=
This statement has me wondering- you admit to bandwagoning, but you give an odd reason for it. You were certainly throwing suspicion on Loki from your first post. And your reasons were terrible. I'd have to say that you were the driving force behind Loki's lynching, not after you were on the kill list, but from the very beginning.
Nogrod admitted that part of the reason he voted for Loki was because he was trying to save his own skin (he did say that earlier didn't he? or am I just making up posts?) Which makes sense, I'm sure many others in this village would have done the same in that situation. But Nogrod also went after Loki from the very beginning and the two continued their arguement until Loki was lynched.
Quote:
Roa=
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
Concerning the EW. S/he would do well to enlist people who are not the primary targets / most vocal ones (as they are in most cases the first to be lynched.
Nice blanket statement- certainly throws suspicion off you almost immediately.
This is the same type of statement that made me suspect Loki yesterday. So, this brings Nogrod high up on my suspect list, but since I was so horribly wrong about Loki I am now worried about making any sort of move against Nogrod today.
Quote:
Oddwen=
++LALAITH

Because she never really loved me! And for a few things that Spawn pointed out, and a few little hunches of my own.
?? She misses the vote yesterday and now out of the blue and with reasons grabbed from spawn she votes for Lalaith.
Quote:
Morm=
Alcarillo: was extremely defensive without much suspicion cast on him. It seems as if he almost didn't vote to kill SpM last night but was over ruled by his comrades and now is anxious to exonerate himself first thing.
An excellent observation, but I still lean more to Alcarillo being an innocent at this point. Though if his overly defense behavior continues into tomorrow I will have to change my stance on him.
Quote:
Morm=
Nogrod: Different behavior, a bit less rash and more cautious.
A lot can happen in one night in a village with wizards.
Quote:
Roa=
Naturally, a wolf learning the identity of a former teammate and an obvious innocent would act as quickly as possible to throw doubt on him, which is exactly what Nogrod did.
So, if Loki was speaking truth and was the one turned back to the path of light, it is reaonable to think Nogrod would want to see him dead. Even if Loki was lying Nogrod's response to him would also work. If Nogrod is the other wolf he would have believed Loki's claim (knowing his cohort was no longer a wolf) and believed he was the changed one. And he plots revenge and as soon as he has a chance Nogrod throws suspicion on Loki and plants the seeds of doubt in the village heads.
Quote:
Roa=
He also seems quite eager to have us believe that the wizards wouldn't pick someone who was loud, but would rather pick under the radar type players.
I have never been a fan of this logic and it irks me so much when a players say something like "Well, I'm too loud and wreckless to be a wolf" and that is what Nogrod is doing. He names himself and a few other players who could not possibly be wolves at this point in time.
Quote:
Sleepy=
And anywho, past experiences tell me never trust a Fea... Now then, unfortunately I haven't been able to read through the entire thread (Evil, evil, evil illness! and also random distractions) but anyway since I don't think I'll be able to get anything reasonable formed before the deadline (or rather my bed-time) -

++Feanor
*sigh* The votes of Oddwen and Sleepy make me suspect them quite a bit. (Oddwen more than Sleepy at this point) Both missed the vote yesterday and their random votes today just look like ways to cover themselves from their mishaps yesterday. Obviously no one wants to miss the vote two days in a row, but the lack of reason irks me.

Alright I find Nogrod and Oddwen the two top suspects. Though I am weary of casting a vote for either at the moment. But unless something amazing happens in the next hour I will be voting for one of them.
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:50 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
(I'm going to make one after this just to see, where we are now).
Well, why bother...

Thanks Caran!
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:57 PM   #317
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Quote:
If some people continue to be super quiet (3 posts or less per day, and not saying much) I think we should just lynch them. They could be a hiding EW or Wolf. Worst case scenario, they are an unhelpful innocent who gives us nothing to base suspicions on. Those sorts should be slain

Hmmmm, I don't know if I would be one to be in that list of super quiet players. I do try to get my thoughts up, when they come to me, and add to the conversation when need be. I do not have as long of breath as you dearPhantom . However, I would agree that those of us that post only once(with very little content) and then either vote or do another post with just a vote and no reason, are being very unhelpfull.


I have finally finished reading through everything and really have become even more confused *sigh*. However, I have gained some suspicions for certain people. I will go back and read over what they have said so I can have a little more concrete reasoning for my vote. Back shortly with a vote......
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:01 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caranlondien
1. Nilp --> Valier (Valier 1)
2. Celuien --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 1)
3. Oddwen --> Lalaith (Valier 1, Lalaith 2)
4. Diamond --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1)
5. Feanor --> Roa (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1)
6. Sleepy --> Feanor (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 1, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
7. Lommy --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 2, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
8. Roa --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 3, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
9. mormegil --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 4, Roa 1, Feanor 1)
10. dancing spawn --> Oddwen (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 4, Roa 1, Feanor 1, Oddwen 1)
11. Kath --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 5, Roa 1, Feanor 1, Oddwen 1)
12. Caran --> Nogrod (Valier 1, Lalaith 2, Nogrod 6, Roa 1, Feanor 1, Oddwen 1)
Caran! I added the one vote for Oddwen to the tally you had forgotten.

Well two hours to hunt a wolf - and happily lots of votes left. We can still do it.
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:09 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
phantom please don't try to lynch those who don't post all that often. I make few posts but try to get my feelings and ideas across in those.
I never said I wanted to lynch those who don't post all that often.

I said I wanted to lynch those who-
1) Don't post much.
2) Don't say much.

If you indeed get your "feelings and ideas across" in the posts you make, then you don't fit #2, therefore you wouldn't make my lynch list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
And I wanted to ask. Why was it decided that the GW should not reveal sooner rather than later?
That was not decided. I never agreed to that.

Personally, I don't think there is a high probability that the GW waiting to reveal will yield rewards for the village. Not getting a Seer Night 1 may have pushed the reveal back a day, but I can't possibly see the GW waiting longer than Day 4 to show himself. I'd like to see him tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
But why do you assume he (Nilp) is the EW and not the GW?
Because Nilp is evil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valier
Doesn't the GW learn the EW's identity when they come forward?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valier
Do they have to challenge each other right away?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valier
I think the GW should remain hidden as long as possible.
In other words, for as long as possible you want us know-nothing villagers to run around lynching people without the guidance of a knowledgeable, invincible, for-sure-trusted-good-guy?

Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
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Old 05-15-2006, 02:10 PM   #320
Firefoot
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,646
Firefoot has been trapped in the Barrow!
Okay, I've finally finished reading through everything that's happened while I've been gone, and am still trying to figure out my thoughts. My biggest impression, though, is that I'm not quite sure where all the votes for Nogrod are coming from, as he seems mostly innocent (or at least no more suspicious than most of you) to me, and if he is a wolf, I'd say he behaved extremely stupidly yesterDay.

The second thing I want to say right now is that I'm sorry if I am seeming unusually quiet. I've been feeling rather sick and extremely tired since about Friday morning, and any kind of thinking pretty much has not appealed to me (and a game this big is requiring a lot of thinking...). So if I'm quiet, that's why. I am reading and following along, and I'm not going to be voting on whims. I'll see if I can't put something more interesting/substantial soon.
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