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Old 12-28-2000, 05:54 PM   #41
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

But then, there was also a pretty large age-gap between Aragorn and Arwen, wasn't there?

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Old 12-28-2000, 06:06 PM   #42
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

They were 2,690 years apart. Seems like it would be a bit
awkward....

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Old 12-29-2000, 12:40 AM   #43
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

They would have nothing in common, one would be talking about something that isn't even recorded in history while the other just sat there with a blanck look on their face.

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Old 12-29-2000, 01:20 AM   #44
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

Whoops.
Sorry Red.
But the age gap ain't a problem.
Look at Aragorn and Arwen.
Look at that 86 year old lady and 18 year old chap who got married in London.
Look at all the Pakistani ancients who marry girls not out of puberty.
No sirreee, it ain't a problemo.
The only problem: I rather suspect you're mortal.

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Old 12-29-2000, 10:11 AM   #45
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

lol, temper, temper, red....

To get back on topic, I have a strong dislike for Galadriel and Celeborn. Thingol is a fairly shallow individual also.

Incidentally, I noticed the names of Feanor and Denethor appearing a few posts back. They are my favourite characters in the Sil. and LOTR respectively. One man`s meat is another man`s poison, I suppose.

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Old 12-29-2000, 02:54 PM   #46
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

Legolas aside, the majority of the elves seemed very self-absorbed. Maybe that was their way, but ...I just never have been a huge elf-fanatic. I vastly prefer the amiable, delightful little hobbits.

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Old 12-29-2000, 11:10 PM   #47
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Re: Now you've gone TOO FAR!

How dare you say that Beleg and Finrod were self-absorbed. And how is it possible to not like hobbits, in one way or another.

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Old 01-03-2001, 01:44 PM   #48
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Okay. . .

I've been gone for a little while and just got back. Here is what think: Celeborn, ya he was kinda dull, didn't do much.
Sam, how could you insult Sam? He is the noblest creature in ME. More so even then Frodo. Because Frodo went knowing what he did, Sam went not knowing, and that's worse. And as for Horrible Old Hobbit, that's right out! I do agree that Sam was &quot;nasty&quot; to Smeagol but if you will forgive me he was a murdering, thieving, conniving, treacherous, being who deserved to be under constant suspicion. Sam could have been a lot &quot;nastier&quot; then he was.
Tom Bombadil, was intersesting, funny and saved the Hobbits, he was an okay guy (but DID sing too much and TOO silly).
Elrond was cool. He did what was needed, he could have done more but (obviously) he didn't need to. I have to agree with red &quot;elfies&quot; was too much. I don't get he thing about red and Elrond, why did it even need to be discussed?
Legolas, he was noble, he was an Elf, and he was a prince he deserved to be a little self-absorbed. He (funny this seems to apply to most good elves. - the felloship part ) did what the fellowship needed him to do.
Thats it, until more of you (or the same ones) decide to grace me with more of your preferences.

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Old 04-21-2001, 02:58 PM   #49
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Re:Thought someone would bring Sam up.

(Here is what Sam did to Gollum:He jumped on him like&quot;cats on poor mices&quot;,he tied a rope around Gollum's ankle-very loose at that-,he was sarcastic with him-especially in Ithillien-,he snapped at him when they were at the stairs leading to Shelob's lair-but apologized after wards-,he swore vengence on Frodo-whom he thought dead-,and he let the little stinker go on Mt Doom.
Now what did Gollum do to Sam and Frodo:He followed them,he bit Sam's shoulder and tried to throttle him in the process,he was thinking about taking the Ring from Frodo in that one pit-which fortuanatly Sam stopped-,he BETRAYED them into Shelob's claws,he fought with Frodo on the mountain,and last but not least he bit offf Frodo's finger,now any suffering that Frodo had to indure Sam indured as well,seeing his masters maimed hand probably was not fun at all for Sam and he had to indure more hunger,and thirst so that Frodo could have more water and lembas.So dont call sarcasim,mistrust,and that one part at the Emyn Muil nasssssty treatment.
We all do that-get sarcastic and mistrusting-at times, even those who call sarcasim nasty treatment.)
As for my least favorite Good Guy's,I'd have to go with Feanor-way too proud and he killed his own kin for boats to get his stupid jewels back <img src=mad.gif ALT=">:"> (bad form wot wot-,Maeglin-what a jerk,jeez the cousin thing(very sick minded)and that Gondolin thing(someone needed to give that boy a boot in the rear)-,Thingol-he got in the way of fate and true love,and sold his daughter to boot.-,and the SB's-they spoil their son,and they dont like Frodo or anyone associated with him(including Sam and all the other hobbits makes me mad<img src=mad.gif ALT=">:"> ()-.
My least fav Good girl is Arwen,she does'nt get into the plot-well hardly at all-and she seems stiff and colorless,at least Eowen has a personality and some interest.
Sam
Ps.I forgot Celeborn and TB-I kinda like TB's songs but he put them through SINGING in the downs,not a favorite activity when you're in trouble-but Celeborn is kinda dull compared to his golden haired wife-he even has silver hair,not color to it at all-

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Old 04-21-2001, 03:54 PM   #50
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Re: Re:Thought someone would bring Sam up.

I have a sort of hero worship thing for Galadriel, so I can't really understand why people don't like her. She survived the trek from Valinor to Middle Earth and took a large role in the leadership of that group of the Nolder on the journey. She is strong, wise, kind, powerful, and beautiful. So, as I said before, I don'r know why some dislike her. If I had to pick a least favorite good guy I would go for Thingol, he just ****ed me off!

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Old 04-21-2001, 08:18 PM   #51
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Ref

I am not a fan of Elrond, especialy because his father Earendil and brother Elros(whose influence on middle earth would outweigh that of his brother) were such great characters. I dont know why i dont like him, he was great in his way but he also seemed to be a stuck up snob.

But Melian is my least favoutie, she deserted her people and left Doraith open just when they needed her most, leading to its downfull. Of course she was grieved at the passing of Thingol, but a great queen would not have deserted her realm.

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Old 04-22-2001, 07:38 PM   #52
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Re: Ref

I think that Boromir was too proud of himself (note-blowing the horn at the departure of the company from rivendell, even when he was advised against it), and he was also weak, he couldnt resist the lure of the ring. although i admit that it would be tempting for anyone, the company was there to support the ringbearer, they were suposed to be able to be trusted. Boromir was absorbed too much in his own needs and the needs of his people to realize the needs of the entire people of ME. He was not a bad guy, but i just didnt like him because he couldnt resist the ring.

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Old 04-23-2001, 02:02 AM   #53
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Re: Ref

Good points from all of you - the weak heart of Boromir and his father was just a very sad story I think - but not in itself evil or cruel, pity on them both.

Who really can get under my skin is Celeborn - To me he just seems like a arrogant snop! - which I think is sad, when we think how highly Gandalf and others spoke of him - He is the one I am the most dissapointed in!

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Old 04-23-2001, 07:04 AM   #54
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Least favorite good guy

My least favorite good guy would be Treebeard. His hroom hums were a bit annoying. Plus, how could he have let Saruman go after pledging to keep him until (I believe) he had been held seven times as long as he had tormented the Ents? The ents would not tire of this!! Treebeard's letting him go seemed to me to be a &quot;bit hasty&quot; for someone who is supposedly not hasty. And can you imagine Gandalf's reaction if that had been Pippin letting Saruman go? &quot;Why don't you bang your head against Orthanc, Pippin, and if that doesn't pound some sense into you, why not throw yourself into a fissure. This is no hobbit walking party!&quot;

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Old 04-23-2001, 11:42 AM   #55
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Least favorite good guy

haha, poor Pippin. Gandalf would never let him forget that one. Yes, i also think that Treebeard was wrong with letting Saruman escape, it did seem hasty for a rather unhasty ent.

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Old 04-24-2001, 05:31 AM   #56
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Least favorite good guy

Tom Bombadil, definitely. Sorry, Zoe but that entire chapter is almost unreadable IMHO. I think a good editor would have cut it and asked JRRT to find another way for the hobbits to be saved from the wight.

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Old 04-24-2001, 07:39 AM   #57
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Some musings

Odysseus819: You said &quot;Tom Bombadil, definitely. Sorry, Zoe but that entire chapter is almost unreadable IMHO. I think a good editor would have cut it and asked JRRT to find another way for the hobbits to be saved from the wight.&quot;

I find this a fascinating statement, because I think it goes to the heart as to why LotR has appealed to so many different people: people find some parts better than others. My favorite part of the novel is from chapter one through At The Sign Of The Prancing Pony. As I write this, Old Man Willow is pasted on my computer screen. My brother's favorite part, who got me in to Tolkien's work, was The Scouring Of The Shire. My wife disliked The Council Of Elrond so much she could not finish the chapter, or the novel, which has distressed me greatly.

This may be a bit off topic, but I know there are some females in this thread. I, personally, have never been able to meet a female who really enjoyed Tolkien. Have others experienced this, too?

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Old 04-25-2001, 04:57 AM   #58
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Some musings

I, myself, have never actually met another person in real life who loves Tolkien as much as I do. I am female, as well. I think science fiction and fantasy in general are more enjoyed by males than females (though I know a lot of women who love sci fi, it's nowhere near the number of men I know)! I didn't have anyone bring me into the stories, either. I just didn't have a tv and was catching up on all the classic sci fi and fantasy I hadn't read. I got hooked after the Hobbits met Strider, but my favorite part is the Moria/Lorien sequence. So, in short, no, I haven't noticed what you have, but I can see why this should be so.

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Old 04-25-2001, 10:27 AM   #59
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Some musings

Something you may find a little weird then X, is that it seems there are about the same amount of females that post on this board as there are males.

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Old 04-25-2001, 10:36 AM   #60
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Some musings

I guess an alternative explanation could therefore be that Tolkien (or at least this excellent site) draws more women than regular sci fi and fantasy. Hmm, maybe there's a disseration in this! LOL <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

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Old 04-25-2001, 12:50 PM   #61
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Some Musings

I am glad I brought it up.

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Old 04-26-2001, 07:48 AM   #62
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/nenya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Some Musings

Last summer i went to a workshop for my job, and i was rooming with another female who happened to like Tolkien just as much as i do. However, that is the only person that i have met that is really into Tolkien. . .none of my friends have even read LotR! And when they see me reading it for the millionth time, they ask why am i reading it again. &quot;Isnt it just the same as the last time you read it?&quot; they ask. Oh well, i guess they dont understand the complexity of ME. But i do understand the rariety of finding someone who likes LotR just as much as we do.

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Old 04-26-2001, 10:26 AM   #63
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Spreading the Word

Most of the people I know either read it a long time ago, have only vaguely heard of it (one person confused it with Lord of the Flies!), or haven't heard of it at all. However, that is changing. I have got my roommate and a couple of other friends started on them. Who knows? They might pop up here someday... (Oh, and I'm a female that loves sci-fi in general, but don't take me as the norm for anything...<img src=wink.gif ALT=""> )

Back on Topic: It struck me that with some of the characters considered &quot;least favorite good guys&quot; it's kind of ambiguous whether they really are good guys. Like Feanor and the S-Bs. They're not villians, at least not compared to Sauron or Morgoth, but still...

And it's kind of strange as well, after all the uproar about Tom cut out of the movie, to hear someone say that it could have been left out of the book!

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Old 04-27-2001, 02:17 AM   #64
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Re: Spreading the Word

Hmmmm....I'm female. And I generally don't like too much science fiction. But I love this genre of fantasy and Tolkien's a passion with me. And I got 4 of my frineds started on LoTR-finally. And they loved it! However, only 1 has shown any inclination to delve deeper into middle earth and read the Silmarillion and the others. I guess most people just like to read LoTR and leave it at that.

What if - what if this is as good as it gets?</p>
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Old 04-27-2001, 06:33 AM   #65
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Least Favorite LOTR Good Guy

My least favorite LOTR good guy would have to be...

PIPPIN TOOK!

He was absolutely nothing but trouble and a burden for much of the way and I'll just betcha if he hadn't run off, Merry wouldn't have either and then Boromir might have lived!

For that matter, it was Pippin who awoke the Balrog sooner rather than later in Moria!

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Old 04-27-2001, 09:00 AM   #66
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Pippin

Gilthalion, are you sure it was Pippin that woke up the Balrog, or could it have been the ring itself? Sauron was exerting all of his power to draw his ring to him, so could not it had been what brought the Balrog forth?

I know Gandalf said something to the effect that Pippins's foolishness probably woke something that should have better been left undisturbed, but Gandalf was always snapping at Pippin for one thing or another.

Tom Bombadil left out of the movie??? Why? that seems as bad to me as when the movie version of the Hobbit left out Beorn! Why can't these people just leave the movie the same as the book? It's perfectly fine as it is. If I was going to do a LotR movie, I would incorporate every dialogue uttered just as it is in the books, nd not change a word.

Hroom, hrum! I believe I am getting worked up! I had better lie down on a table!

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Old 05-07-2001, 12:49 AM   #67
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Re: Which good guy (girl) do you least like?

I surely despise Feanor, and Thingol is neither one of my fave characters!

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Old 05-07-2001, 06:52 AM   #68
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Re: Which good guy (girl) do you least like?

A bit off-topic but Merry's comment about different parts of the book appealing to different people made me think: for some reason my favorite parts of LotR are the discusrsive parts where ppl just sitting around talking -- e.g. The Shadow of the Past chapter, the Council of Elrond, Strider's meeting with the hobbits in Bree, even the council of captains after the Battle of Pelennor Fields (when Gandalf says &quot;I do not counsel prudence . . &quot. I'm not sure why that is, but JRRT seems at his best in these parts. But other ppl may like the &quot;action&quot; parts better.

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Old 05-07-2001, 02:12 PM   #69
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Re: Which good guy (girl) do you least like?

Thingol drives me crazy. He's way too proud for his own good. I guess being a huge fan of Feanor's sons puts me at odds with Thingol. I still think if he'd just bent his stiff neck a little and given the dwarves their pay, than Doriath wouldn't have been destroyed and he wouldn't have died.

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Old 12-03-2001, 02:50 AM   #70
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This is probably pretty predictable, but...

Regarding Sam--I think you misjudge him if you think he was unforgivably mean to Gollum. He was sharp, certainly, on a number of occasions because he (sensibly, if not perhaps farsightedly) considered Gollum a threat and didn't like him. Perhaps Sam was, to some extent, responsible for the decision Gollum made to abandon him and Frodo to Shelob. In the end, though, Gollum made that choice. His evil actions over so many years had made it virtually (if not actually) impossible to choose otherwise. Notice, too, that Sam treats Gollum differently after he bears the Ring a while. Not that he dislikes Gollum any less, but he has more compassion. Sam's forebearance at Mt. Doom, as much as Frodo's earlier, permitted the destruction of the Ring. Take into account all the good Sam did--enduring well the most aggravating hunger, thirst, and fatigue and untold emotional pain to protect his friend and get the pieces in place so ME could be rescued. He could have turned back at any point along the road and had every reason to. He knew he didn't have much to offer but loyalty. Of all the hobbits, he may have been the most frightened by everything along the way and most aware of what he was sacrificing to do what he felt he had to--but he went on because he had made a commitment. He really comes a long way, considering how provincial and uneducated he was about the world at the story's beginning and how wise and good he has become at the story's close.

Again, just my two cents!
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Old 12-04-2001, 07:18 AM   #71
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Gilthalion:

HEY!!!!!! Pippin did NOT wake up the Balrog, the orcs did! and they wouldn't have come running just coz they heard a stone fall-they were coming anyway, probably drawn by the ring, and Gandalf's light. (I'm not insultin' the big guy, but it wasn't MY fault!)

If Boromir hadn't been killed, who knows what he would have done in his mad desire for the ring? he could have followed Frodo, or done something terrible. In my opinion, I think he was a little too "hasty" as the Ents say.
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Old 12-05-2001, 07:39 PM   #72
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what a lively discussion! quite funny in parts too. i have to try and put aside some GOOD characters whom i dislike but have respect for. these include Thingol (arrogant and haughty, but some lovely rhetoric and a "stuff the lot of them" attitude); Celeborn, he's got the runs on the board but he's a bit wishy-washy. I think Denethor gets my vote as least favourite because his initial virtue was conquered by his vanity, and he had such a crucial role to play.
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Old 12-06-2001, 05:58 AM   #73
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peregrine, I haven't seen you around for a while...
I think this was a dangerous topic to start but it was fun! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 12-06-2001, 10:00 PM   #74
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May i assert the statment that opinions cant be wrong [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Anyways i think Glorfindel is my fav. as well as the generic answers of Gandalf and Aragorn.

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Old 12-07-2001, 02:37 PM   #75
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Old 12-10-2001, 02:47 PM   #76
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Eowyn for (arguably) killing my favourite character-the Witch-King.
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Old 12-10-2001, 08:16 PM   #77
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I guess Aragorn gets up my nose a bit (is that blasphemy?). He's a bit haughty. Sure he's got the lineage but I think the blood's pretty thin by the time it gets to him and yet he carries on a bit.

Hi Pippin. Been away for a while, and have been reading the posts with nothing of worth to add ('wise is the man who, with nothing to say, says nothing')
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Old 12-11-2001, 07:20 AM   #78
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those darn rangers!
but I suppose we could let Aragorn off for not being much of a "people" person, he did spend a good chunk of his life wandering about in the wild. but I admit he was a little snooty... [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 12-11-2001, 04:01 PM   #79
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i liked him better as strider. as a group the rangers stir up some of the strongest feelings of adventure and hardship, and when they turn up at the battles at the end they are tall and grim and quiet. that's cool. aragorn's just a bit of a knob in between strider and the end. perhaps the weight of gandalf's disappearance was almost too much for him?
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Old 12-11-2001, 05:42 PM   #80
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Alright first of all NEVER mess with Pippin. He didn't wake up the Balrog!!! Y'know Gollum was followin them thru moria na dwhen he found that they might actually escape he called his lil orc friends... he probably didn;t know there was a Balrog or he wouldn't have called them but they brouth the Balrog and it wasn't Pippin's fault. His dropping of the stone was pure coincidence to the starting of the hammer tappings. Pippin is the most fun loving fellow of the group he's what makes the journey entertaining. DON"T MESS WITH PEREGRIN TOOK!!!!!! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]
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