The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2010, 07:52 PM   #1
Hobbitt_Fan
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18
Hobbitt_Fan has just left Hobbiton.
Boromir I

Is Boromir I(11th Steward of Gondor), one of the greatest, if not the greatest warriors Elf or Human? I have found several citations on the net, supposedly from the Appendices of LoTR and they seem to indicate, aside from retaking Ithilien and defeating the first Uruk army, the Witch King feared him.

It's surprising, considering that in Rivendell, only Glorfindel is mentioned with the power to stand openly against the Nazgul. If I am looking at the years right, Boromir confronted him nearly 500 years after Glorfindel's prophecy. It seems interesting that the Witch King, didn't seem cowed by Earnur, even in defeat who was the last King until Aragorn but he did fear a Steward.
Hobbitt_Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010, 08:34 PM   #2
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,034
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
ROTK Appendix A does say

Quote:
Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him. He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will...
.

Though Boromir I did defeat the uruks, it isn't said that he ever 'confronted' the Witch-king or any of the Nazgûl personally.
That the WK 'feared' him could mean simply that he had special worry about Boromir as a double threat; a powerful field-leader and a wise and respected ruler.
I don't think based upon that that it could be said Boromir I was 'one of the greatest warriors Elf or Human', though.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010, 08:54 PM   #3
Hobbitt_Fan
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18
Hobbitt_Fan has just left Hobbiton.
Since the Witch King is a creature that time had different meaning for, I would think that a fear of someone is in the person and confrontation. An immortal being could just build his forces and wait a mortal out until a less skilled commander was in charge. We do know that Boromir confronted a Nazgul, presumably the Witch King since his life was shortened by a Morgul wound.

Although King Earnur was a mighty commander, Tokien never mentions the Witch King fears him.
Hobbitt_Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010, 09:10 PM   #4
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,034
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbitt_Fan View Post
We do know that Boromir confronted a Nazgul, presumably the Witch King since his life was shortened by a Morgul wound.
That doesn't necessarily mean the wound was the result of single combat between the two. A 'Morgul wound' could indicate the use of a poison, as Orcs were wont to use.
The wording used to decribe the action in taking Osgiliath merely states Boromir defeated the uruks, with no mention of the Nazgûl even being directly involved in the fighting.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2010, 09:28 PM   #5
Hobbitt_Fan
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18
Hobbitt_Fan has just left Hobbiton.
I agree but the Witch King faced other great Gondorian leaders and warriors but Tolkien clearly inferred something great in Boromir and it seems that if it was simply as a tactician, Tolkien who was gifted with words would have indicated that.

I have always believed the most literal translation is the best unless otherwise indicated by the author. Clearly, Earnur had also dealt the Witch King a terrible blow when he destroyed Angmar but the Witch King still rode him down and challenged him to combat.

Absent any other explanation and in comparison to the Witch King's dealings with other Gondorian leaders, the easiest interpretation is that Boromir was personally mighty enough in arms that the Witch King feared him.
Hobbitt_Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 03:25 AM   #6
Findegil
King's Writer
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,694
Findegil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
I would think that it is not 'in arms' that you have to be mighty to be feared by the Witch King.

Eanur was strong in arms as well. But he lacked other qualities that make him in the end an easy victim for Witch King. Not so Boromir I it seems.

And look who did deal the fatal blows to the Witch king in the end: A Hobbit in his first time battle expirence and a woman how had to disguise to be allowed to that battle at all. Not what you would call 'mighty in arms'.

It seems that it is more Boromirs being 'a man strong in ... will' that the Witch King feared, since that quality he shared with Merry and Eowyn.

Respectfuly
Findegil
Findegil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 11:20 AM   #7
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,031
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
I agree, strong in will is notable here in my opinion.

Instilling unreasoning fear (as the Witch-king seemingly can do) in combat is a great advantage! However, if someone is both strong and notably strong-willed for example...
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 01:24 PM   #8
Dakêsîntrah
Animated Skeleton
 
Dakêsîntrah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Armenelos
Posts: 29
Dakêsîntrah has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Dakêsîntrah
The wisdom of the will if far superior to skill in arms.
Dakêsîntrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2010, 03:27 PM   #9
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Pitchwife is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
I'm with Findegil and Galin here about strength of will being Boromir's forte against the Nazgûl.
Concerning his death, the draft versions of The Heirs of Elendil in HoME XII read:
Quote:
A: Death hastened by wounds got in the war.
B: His life was shortened by wounds received from the poisoned weapons of Morgul.
C: His life was shortened by the poisoned wounds he received in the Morgul-war.
So I'm inclined to read the 'Morgûl wound' of the final text in Appendix A as abbreviation/condensation of the wordings in B and C above.
Besides, if he'd been wounded with a Morgûl knife like the one the WK used against Frodo on Weathertop, wouldn't he have been turned into a wraith rather than killed or letally poisoned?
__________________
Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:45 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.