Riddle ME this

[elven maiden Earwen]

I saw an old king falling
Greed was on his tongue

Thingol and the Silmaril and Dwarf-necklace

_____________________________________________

A woman on the verge of lost
Now stricken, on the run

This sounds like Nienor Níniel

_____________________________________________


Radiant shines the hope of all

Silmaril

_____________________________________________


Shadows hover low

I don't know. Does it have to do with Melkor?

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

If you are right, maiden, then the 'shadows' should be those that filled Nienor's own mind.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Hi!

The clues in the long paragraph are much less important than the ones in the first paragraph. Let me break it down a bit for you.

First Paragraph: Gives instructions for solving the second paragraph, gives general class of answer (person, place, thing, etc.).

Second Paragraph: Contains clues to the general story in which the answer is found, contains the answer itself hidden.

Third Paragraph: Completes the Rhyme [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

Sophia

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

*bump*

[elven maiden Earwen]

I think I need another hint because I have been pondering this riddle for quite some time now and all I can come up with is

Silmaril?
Elessar?
Estel or Aragorn(hope=Estel)?

Am I close on any of my guesses?

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Earwen,

None of your answers are right, I could point you in the right direction if you gave me more reasoning, though.

The answer is an item, something used by "a hero of old". The name of the item is hidden in the second paragraph. Instructions for finding that name are found in the first paragraph. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Sophia

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Could it perhaps be Gurthang? Rather a longshot. 'Confused' could point to the story of Turin, and thence, some evidence in the second suggests his sword...

I saw an old king falling -> The sword was made of iron that fell from space

Greed was on his tongue -> Gurthang came to Earth with desire for blood

A woman on the verge of lost -> Nienor Niniel, on the verges of the Teiglin

Radiant shines the hope of all -> The death of Glaurung, who is 'golden-cloud' (-radiant)

It isn't quite satisfactorily coherent, I think, but I'll hazard a go at it anyway.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Nope [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]... Confused points to an anagram.

[Annunfuiniel]

Ok, I'm a bit rusty at these (due to excessive amount of role-playing...) but: is it Narsil/Anduril?

(Interested in my 'reasoning'? Well, so am I... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )

~Annun

[The Saucepan Man]

Could it be Orcrist?

I'm not altogether clear how it works but "old king" could give O and R, abbreviations for old and rex (king) respectively.

And if the confused word is stricken, but losing ken, a synonym for know, that gives "crist".

Putting them together gives Orcrist, a weapon used by a (nameless) hero of Gondolin in the wars against Morgoth and which witnessed the fall of an old king, Turgon.

As for the rest of it ... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Am I anywhere near?

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Er, nobody's hit it yet. The first paragraph is very important in order to solve the second paragraph. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lomadia]

Oh, boy... I'm guessing that the speaker is either Merry or Pippin. I was thinking Pippin's Elven brooch, but I don't think that a Hero of old ever used it... Then perhaps Merry's barrow-sword, but I don't think that Theoden died with greed on his tongue; it sounds more like Denenthor, but he's not a king! Maybe the Witch-King?
I was thinking that the woman would be Eowyn, who was nearly lost at the Pelennor Fields. Aragorn's arrival could be the hope of all (Estel could also be hinting toward this), and the shadows would probably be the darkness that was hanging over Gondor. Wow, this is so tricky!
Namarie,
Lomadia

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

It's Herugrim, the sword of Theoden.

In the beginning, I knew it!-Of course
Now I am all confused-Makes sense
I lost the one thing I know
A Hero of old had used-Relic of greater days

I saw an old king falling-Naturally
Greed was on his tongue-Grima put it there
A woman on the verge of lost-Poor Eowyn
Now stricken, on the run
Radiant shines the hope of all-Gandalf White
Shadows hover low-Grima at his feet
Tell me, friend, what have I lost

If, indeed, you know....

[Iarwain]

I'm going to guess that it is the Witchking's ring of power.

In the beginning, I knew it!- I knew where it was (on his finger)
Now I am all confused- lost/dissintigrated during his fall
I lost the one thing I know
A Hero of old had used- I believe he would have been considered a hero very much by the people of Angmar

I saw an old king falling- Eowyn fells the beast
Greed was on his tongue- obviously
A woman on the verge of lost- Eowyn indeed
Now stricken, on the run- the ride of the Rohirrim
Radiant shines the hope of all- the darkness breaks, giving sunlight to the Pellenor
Shadows hover low- witchking falls
Tell me, friend, what have I lost

If, indeed, you know....

There are possible variations on the meaning, but I think this works. Depending on how literally the word radiant is to be taken, "Radiant shines the hope of all", combined with "shadows hover low" could be Merry on the ground.

Iarwain

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Neither. The article in question is a First Age artifact. The story in question was one of the greater stories.

In the beginning refers to first letters. Confused refers to an anagram. The paragraph breakup is important. If I give any more cluse it will be telling the answer [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]. Good luck.

Sophia

[Iarwain]

Is it Angrist?

In the beginning, I knew it!- I have yet to figure this out
Now I am all confused-
I lost the one thing I know
A Hero of old had used- If anyone is a hero, Beren was

I saw an old king falling- Morgoth with his iron crown
Greed was on his tongue- greed, or perhaps lust. He wanted Luithien to sing
A woman on the verge of lost- Luithien
Now stricken, on the run- running with beren to escape Angband, stricken because of the energy her song took
Radiant shines the hope of all- the Silmaril
Shadows hover low- in the prescense of the silmaril
Tell me, friend, what have I lost

If, indeed, you know....

We thinks we gotses it. Perhaps

Iarwain

P.S. Now I'm thinking It's Beren's severed hand

[ August 06, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Arestevana]

Iarwain:
I'm pretty sure you're right, but I've figured out that clue you were missing, if you want to add it to your reasoning: mixed up, the first letters of the clues in the second paragraph spell Angrist. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Iarwain, you are right. Your interpretation of the second paragraph is correct. Arestevana's interpretation of the other clues is also correct [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img].

But since Iarwain had the answer first, it's his go.

[Beren87]

I say we now ban Sophia from this thread, so she doesn't give us another one like that. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, good job Iarwain. That riddle gave me many a sleepless night. (Well, one, actually...but I like to exaggerate.)

[Iarwain]

Sorry for the wait, I was away. I'm sure this will be far too easy, but here it is. Enjoy! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

To none a slave, to some a master,
Who then is he,
that wanders after?
The death of all,
and life for none,
yet who am I,
that stay's alone?

Perhaps, they say,
I'm but a jest.
Perhaps they're right,
I think, for lest
the watchers clear my path,
I will remain
a tool for laughs.

[ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Wormtongue? (reasons will be given upon confirmation of my corectness, I can't be bothered right now although I do have them...)

[aragornreborn]

Yourself! Er, Bombadil, anyway.

To none a slave, to some a master, - Certainly no one's slave but he has power over his borders

Who then is he,
that wanders after? - a very good question indeed.

The death of all,
and life for none,
yet who am I,
that stay's alone? - not quite sure what my reasoning is, here. But it sounds enigma-ish and thus Bombadil-ish.

Perhaps, they say,
I'm but a jest. - He could seem like a ridiculous, singing fellow.

Perhaps they're right,
I think, for lest
the watchers clear my path,
I will remain
a tool for laughs. - He could care less what other people think of him but he doesn't want he, his Goldberry, nor his lands bothered.

Is that it, perhaps?

[Iarwain]

Aragornreborn, you have it, though your logic isn't quite perfect.

To none a slave, to some a master, -you were correct
Who then is he,
that wanders after? -after all have fallen
The death of all, -see above
and life for none,
yet who am I,
that stay's alone? -alone in that he will be the last to die

Perhaps, they say,
I'm but a jest. -of course, the jolly singing man can be misunderstood
Perhaps they're right,
I think, for lest
the watchers clear my path, -this was intended to give the image of watchers looking down from above (i.e. readers)
I will remain
a tool for laughs. -and so he does

Anyway, your go, aragorn


Iarwain

[aragornreborn]

Thank you, Iarwain.

I must confess that I am quite used to simple riddles. So whenever I've posted one in this thread or the like it's been guessed the same day and then someone like Sophia or the Saucepan Man gives one of those cryptic riddles where you have to find a pattern amongst the syllables and then, using the first letter from the syllables corresponding to the pattern, form a hint to find what the key words are. Once you have found the hint, you have to find the key words in the riddle which must be translated to Latin and then the antonym of the Latin translation must be further translated into Hungarian. After you have traslated the key words to Hungarian, all you have to do is to take the third letter from each of those words. Once you've done that, you have all the letters, although mixed up, to form the answer that is alluded to from the rest of the riddle.

You do not have to worry about such things from me as I do not speak Hungarian. So, I shall leave those fluent in Hungarian to form and ponder over the cryptic riddles whilst I stick to my simple ones. (For those of you who make those cryptic riddles, I do sincerely hope you do not take offense to my teasing; for no harm was meant by it. And I hold you in the highest regard.)

Now then. Onto my riddle (all that other nonsense was to stall so I could think of one). Ha ha ha, oh dear me. I just thought of one.

My beginning was formed in darkness.
My end in telecommunications.
My whole was faster than thou.
And, no, I am not a cow.

There. I got my jollies from it. And, yes, it truly is Tolkien related.

[ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: aragornreborn ]

[Arestevana]

Shadowfax. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Fun!

[aragornreborn]

Yep. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Your go, Arestevana .

[Arestevana]

I don't have my books with me at the moment, so there's no way I'll be able to come up with a decent riddle. If someone else has one, feel free to take a turn. Otherwise I'll just post in few days once I find them.

[Iarwain]

I'll go.

Hopes are shattered,
Dreams awaken,
The old three cornered hat is taken.
Things expected broke asunder,
As they fell completely under.
Out of thought and the depths of time,
Returning then, sweetly sublime.


Even easier than my last, I'm sure, but it is what I've made it.


Iarwain

[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[ August 20, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[ August 20, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hopes are shattered,-loss of the Light of the Two Trees of Valinor
Dreams awaken,-Yavanna's idea to recall the Light from the Silmarils
The old three cornered hat is taken.-old three being the Silmarils
Expected things are split asunder.- not quite sure
As they fall completely under.
Out of thought and the depths of time,-Silmarils are lost
Returning then, sweetly sublime.-but they will be returned together eventually

I know this is a bit of a ball-park guess, but is the answer to the riddle the Silmarils?

Fea

[Iarwain]

Good logic, but wrong story. I think I might edit the riddle a little, but anyway, phrasing is key.


Iarwain

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ooh! A compliment... I'm touched. Which story is it? Or would that be giving too much away?

Fea

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Okay, now that I asked my parents what a 'three cornered hat' is called, got the answer tricorn, searched for symbolic meaning, and the dictionary definitions, and then had an epiphany, hear's my new guess:

Hopes are shattered,- Wormtongue's hopes
Dreams awaken,- Rohirrim see their King again
The old three cornered hat is taken.- this, I am assuming means 'old tricorn', which can mean 'three protrusions, points, or horns', and so I get old Thrihyrne, thus Helm's Deep
Expected things are split asunder.-Saruman expected his orcs to win the battle
As they fall completely under.-the defeated orcs either died or ran under the canopy of the Huorns
Out of thought and the depths of time,-the orcs were never seen again
Returning then, sweetly sublime.-the Huorns then returned to Fangorn, having gotten even with the orcs.

My new solution: The Battle of Helm's Deep!

Fea

[Iarwain]

Nope!

I suppose this might be a little more vague than it seems to me. Here's a more direct clue: line four contains a quote from the text, and the tricorn bit isn't exactly about tricorns or the number three; it has distant historical symbolism, which (I should add) you probably won't tie in until you come to an answer. Good Luck! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Iarwain

[Evisse the Blue]

Here's my 2 cents': You're talking about the fall of Saruman:
Hopes are shattered - Theoden and his people's hopes that Gandalf will aid them, when the spell of Saruman's voice kicked in.

Dreams awaken, - when Gandalf laughed at Saruman's words

The old three cornered hat is taken - the historical reference is maybe to the three cornered hat that Haman wore (Haman was a biblical high-official who wanted to destroy all the Jews because Esther's cousin did not want to bow to him - kind of similar to what Saruman was trying to do). The 'hat being taken is symbolic for his plans being thwarted.

Expected things are split asunder: Saruman's staff is

split asunder

. Not the full quote, though [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

As they fall completely under ::wild guess:: Saruman and Wormtongue are completely and officially in trouble when the Palantir is dropped from the tower

Out of thought and the depths of time,
Returning then, sweetly sublime - reference to Gandalf - now Gandalf the White, who, returning from 'out of thought and time' caused Saruman's fall. OR maybe to the Palantir, who also returned out of deeps of time.

Well, I'm probably wrong anyway, but congratulations, Iarwain, for a lovely lyrical riddle! It's lovely and it sticks to mind. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Iarwain]

It takes some extraoridnary thinking to tie the book of Esther to a riddle about Middle-Earth. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Sadly, though, you were incorrect. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

Unfortunately, due to recklessness, I used the wrong quote. The riddle has been edited now, using the correct phrase. My most sincere appologies. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Iarwain

P.S. I probably wouldn't be able to write these riddles if they weren't lyrical. That's the only way I can think of subjects. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

P.P.S. You have part of the riddle perfect, Evisse, you're unbelievably close, so keep trying!

[ August 20, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Voralphion]

I think it might refer to Gandalf and his fight with the balrog


Hopes are shattered, ( the balrog appears)
Dreams awaken,
The old three cornered hat is taken. ( No idea)
Things expected broke asunder, (Gandalf's staff "broke asunder" as he broke the Bridge of Khazad-Dum)
As they fell completely under. (Gandalf and the balrog fell together under Moria to the roots of the earth)
Out of thought and the depths of time, (when he died he said he passed out of time)
Returning then, sweetly sublime. ( he returned from the dead)

[Dancing_Hobbit]

it seems to me that Voralphion probably has the last four lines right, but i'm not so sure about the first three. i'm probably totally off, but i would think that the line "the old three cornered hat is taken" is key, yet i have not idea what it means.

[Iarwain]

yes, close enough. It is about gandalf's fall.


Hopes are shattered -Gandalf the Grey falls

Dreams awaken -Gandalf the White comes

The old three cornered hat is taken -this is very much a peculiar connection that I make in my mind. I connect tricorns to America's colonial period, and when thinking of the colonial period, I think of the first settlers, who called themselves "pilgrims". Gandalf was, of course the Grey Pilgrim, and as he was taken away in Moria.

Things expected broke asunder -you were correct here

As they fell completely under -Gandalf falls into the chasm, presumably with the broken bits of his staff

out of thought and the depths of time -in the White Rider, the quote is "out of thought and time"

returning then, sweetly sublime -indeed

Your turn Voralphion,
Iarwian

[ August 24, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Voralphion]

Although I answered it correctly, unfortunately I am unable to come up with a new riddle. If someone else wants to go instead go ahead, or I will continue to try and think one up.

[Iarwain]

I'll go again, I suppose. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

What lies beneath this fallen world?
The cold expanse with darkness filled.
The winding paths that crush the mind,
They fall to dreaded depths, yet climb
To bitter heights cruelly unkind.

Whilst chambers daunt and haunt the lost
Never to waken, minds cold with frost.
Eager for death, not yet to die,
first live to come, last dead to lie.
All this has passed, ere came the Eye.

Hope this one isn't too vague!

Iarwain

[ August 24, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]