WWJ XII: "Oh the tangled web we weave..."

[Valier]

This is a game of body snatching. The storyline will be saved for the game start. It is the Third age, so Occupations should be fitting of that age. Players if you so want, we can make the game in r-p style to make it more interesting. I will take votes on the junior thread as to what would be liked. (remember you may be "snatched" at any time and become a Thing yourself!)
Roles:

3 Things (WW'S)

1 Seer

1 Weaver

1 Ranger

9 Ordinary villagers


The Seer will dream of one player each night. They will pm the mod (me) with this dream. They will be told the role of the said player. The Seer may not pm with the Weaver at any time. The Seer may re dream about any player as many times as they like. If the Seer gets "snatched" by a Thing, they do not become a Thing themselves, they die slowly over 24 hours just as the Weaver does.

The Ranger will pm me their choice nightly of who they wish to protect for the night, they may protect the same villager twice in a row, but twice only. They must then protect someone else for at least one night. If the Ranger is "snatched" by a Thing, they do indeed become one themselves.

The Weaver will ask the Mod (me) about 2 players each night (via pm). They will be told if their is a connection between the two or not. There will be a connection between the two if they share the same role. ie: 2 Ordo's, 2 Baddies. Or there will be no connection between the two if they have different roles. ie: Seer and Ordo, or Ordo and Baddie and so on. The Weaver may at no time pm with the Seer. The weaver may pick the same player to weave as many time as they like. Players may pm me if they would like this role.

The 3 Things work as follows. The Things may pm with each other at night only. They will be assigned a random # each night by the Mod(me) Ex: Thing #1, Thing #2 and Thing #3. This will change each night and the Things are unaware who is what #. Each night the Things will have two duties. They will first each pm me a Thing, either #1, 2 or 3 (remember they do not know who is what)The thing with the most votes "wins". They will then discuss who shall be their victim, and pm me the name. The villager they pick will not die. The Chosen Thing will instead snatch the body of the chosen victim. The chosen Thing will then in turn die and the chosen villager will now be a Thing. Ex: Ok so say Myself, Lommy and Nogrod are Things. We chose Thing #3 for the night who happens to be say, me. And we chose to "kill" Naria (Ordo) I would die that night and be replace by Naria who would be told of her transformation and let in on who are the other things. The Thing that dies will be known as an Ordo at their death.

The only way to kill a Thing will be during the day with a lynching. The Things may not make any new Things if one dies. They may only switch bodies. If the Things chose the Weaver or Seer to body snatch, they will be told they chose the Weaver/Seer,as well as the Weaver/Seer will be told they were attacked, but the Weaver/Seer is protected for this one attack, giving the Weaver/Seer time to share their info with the village, the weaver has 24 hours and then they die. They do not become a Thing. NOTE: WHEN THE THINGS CHOSE THE SEER OR THE WEAVER, NO THING DIES, BECAUSE THEY CANNOT SNATCH THE GIFTEDS BODIES. THE GIFTED (-Ranger) DIE OVER 24 HOURS. THEY WILL BE TOLD THEY ARE DYING.

Rules:

Votes will be displayed as follows on a separate line and bolded

++Valier

Or to retract (only once per day)

- -Valier

++ Volo

-No double lynching

-Retractable votes (only 1)

- In the event of a tie the first one to get the majority vote dies.

-You must post and vote every day if you do not do this for 2 consecutive days you die!!

-You must post a reason for edits (must be a good one!! )

-Day and Night will begin at 10pm CST can be altered slightly (within 2 hours)

-If you cannot post or vote for any reason please post this in the junior thread.

-You must be in invisible mode for the duration of the game

-You may not pm any other players concerning the game

-Please do not post on this thread until the game starts. You may sign up on the WW Junior thread.

P.S I know this sounds confusing, but it is more simple than it looks. I will answer any questions you may have on the junior thread, no matter how silly they may seem. Please ask lots of questions before we start!!

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Valier

Thing #1, Thing #2 and Thing #3.

Can I be the Cat in that Hat?

[Gil-Galad]

Retractable votes, one a day or one during the whole game?

[Valier]

One a day Gil-Galad. Can you please keep your questions to the WWJ thread though.

[Valier]

I have revised some of the rules please read them thoroughly and ask any questions you have on the wwjunior thread.

[Valier]

The evening was cool, Snowflakes fell gracefully to the earth, each one dancing to it's own melody. A lone elderly woman could be seen,scurrying to and fro huffing and puffing in the cool evening air, transferring large milk jugs upon her cart. Her name is Valier and she is the milkmaid of their village. She is the last of her family and the world is not long for her. She continues her families duties and passion even with her failing health. As she prepares the morning route, something caught her eye. A strange glowing light alit from a nearby wooded area. Perhaps a fire had broken out. Or perhaps the cause of the light was some Elves going about their business. She hoped to herself that it was the latter. Placing the milk jugs down in mid lift, she left to have a look. The moon rose higher and still she followed the eerie light. Then abruptly she found herself in a large clearing. There in the middle was the light, pulsing as if with life. The light began to fade with every step that Valier made toward the object as if a beacon to it's caller that had been answered. Her curiosity took hold and Valier crept closer. The light was almost out now as she drew upon it. She pulled her cloak about her to gather warmth as much as for security. There on the ground before her lay an oddly disgusting pile of goo, and within the goo sat three fat writhing slug looking creatures. Valier stood there with mouth ajar. She knew she should run, but she was strangely drawn to the grotesque sight. Her hair stood up on her arms, something had whispered her name not just to her but in her mind. It was an odd comfort and without realizing, she bent on a knee and picked-up the THING. It violently sprang from her hands and attached to her face....... ("in her mind")blackness,whats happening where am I, Valier said to herself as she lost control of herself and functions she felt her bowels empty as the blackness consumed her.......DARKNESS,DEATH!


She was awoken from the cold and abruptly sprang to her feet as if with a renewed energy and youth, she stretches and surveys the area while bending over to collect her two friends, gingerly wrapped in her cloak and headed back to "her" forgotten duties with an otherly grin.



List of Villagers


Gil-Galad- Friendly neighborhood window cleaner
JennyHallu- Prophetess
Volo- Village loony/Poet
Kitanna- Hermit
Naria- Herbalist
Glirdan- Town musician
Briseis- Seamstress
Rikae- Cheesemaker
Macalaure- Village Doomsayer
Folwren- Jack the Blacksmith
Rune son of Bjarne- Weaver (not the actual one)
Thinlomien- Blind gardener maid
Nogrod- GoatHerder
Meneltarmacil- Former pirate
Eonwe- Miller

Night 1 has now begun.

Weaver send me your "Dream" Things continue conversing. Day starts at 10:00 pm CST (GMT-6) Monday.

[Valier]

Valier walked steadily and confidently towards a small group of houses. She carried two large milk jugs upon her withered shoulders as if they weighed nothing. She breathed deeply of the cool, crispy winter air and stepped up to a door that the light inside was still on. *Knock* Knock* The door opens slightly, but whoever answers is unseen. "Oh hello Valier. A little late for a delivery, don't you think?....Valier? Oh dear god!!!! NO!!!!!!!! DARKNESS, DEATH

Valier moves more slowly towards a second house, this body can not take much more... On she goes till she reaches another house with lights alit. *Knock* Knock* The door creaks open. "Well Valier!! What a surprise! Is something wrong?...." Valier reaches once more for her pocket... Dread, fear....DARKNESS,DEATH


It begins to snow harder as the long night moves on. The body is spent. She sits in the ever rising snow and waits. Not long, for up the road comes a trotting of hooves as a carriage nears. It nearly passes her by, but at the last minute it stops and someone jumps out, someone younger and stronger.... "Madame are you alright? Do you need assistance?" The woman whispered something the kind stranger could not hear, so they bent closer. They would never get a chance to rue that moment...... DARKNESS, DEATH

The village grew quiet. The dawn rose with hoarfrost covering everything. The villagers awoke and went about their daily duties, but something was different, something was going to happen, the air was filled with static.

A horrible scream rang out breaking whatever peace there was to be left of the day.
" Valier!!! Oh Valier!!!! What in dear god has happened!???" There sprawled out in the snow lay Valier, her body shrivelled and dry, she looked as if every last bit of life was drained from her body. "What is going on here?" Shrieked Thinlomien, running towards the scream "I cannot see!! Please what has happened to Valier?" " You do not want to know I am sure" remarked Jack the blacksmith. " Something strange is going on here and we need to find out!" Said someone in the back. " My dogs were going nuts last night!" yelled out Volo "Something is here and it means us all harm, No amount of charm will help us get through this. " "That is just crazy talk!! Crazy old Loon!!" Shouted Briseis in disgusted.

Voices grew louder and the tension rose, but this was and is, only the beginning.


Dead villagers

Valier- Milkmaid- Killed by Thing- Mod



Live villagers

Gil-Galad- Friendly neighborhood window cleaner
JennyHallu- Prophetess
Volo- Village loony/Poet
Kitanna- Hermit
Naria- Herbalist
Glirdan- Town musician
Briseis- Seamstress
Rikae- Cheesemaker
Macalaure- Village Doomsayer
Folwren- Jack the Blacksmith
Rune son of Bjarne- Weaver (not the actual one)
Thinlomien- Blind gardener maid
Nogrod- GoatHerder
Meneltarmacil- Former pirate
Eonwe- Miller


Day 1 has now begun. Things stop pming. Day ends at 10:00pm CST (GMT-6) Tomorrow. You may now post on this thread.

Let the paranoia begin.

[Gil-Galad]

"oooh...well thats going to leave a mark" Gil casually remarked

"but i guess assumptions are going to have to wait till later today people, we must wait for the comments... such a shame...poor Valier, it has to be our village out of hundreds, waiting to be populated by unearthly creatures, for her blood to paint its simple walls..."

[Rikae]

Oh my sweet Mozzarella! This is terrible. Who could have done such a thing to poor, dear Valier (and how will I make this month's batch of gorgonzola without milk?). I can't believe such a thing would happen here, in our quiet little village!
Now, nobody panic. It will be all right, if we remain calm and keep our wits about us. When I was at the cheesemaker's convention in Bree last year, I was able to hear the news from all over Middle Earth. One story I heard was of two villages beset by werewolves hidden in their midst. Every night the wolves killed a villager, but this was not the only danger - many innocent villagers were lynched by their neighbors before the horrible business finally came to an end. Some died because they spoke too soon, or made baseless accusations; others, because they tried to keep a low profile. Often, those that spoke first were wolves; I trust you will understand that I speak first now so that others may have the courage to speak their minds also, and if I go to my death today or tonight at least I will have had my say.

We have among us, if I read the narrative rightly, three "things". One young and strong, one who was up late last night, and one who expected a delivery of milk. I am aware all three of these statements apply to me, and therefore my chances of seeing sunset are quite slim already. I will then try to be as helpful as I can in what little time I have, for my allegiance lies with the villagers, as my death will confirm.

The only ones among you who truly know anything are the things. They are the only ones now with knowledge to condemn or absolve anybody. They are bound to each other. Look for those who speak quickly, those who wish to lead. Beware of those who are certain. Admittedly random accusations have meant innocence in other villages, for the innocent know they know nothing. Beware of those who collaborate to defend anyone also, for only the things and the seer know who is who. Demand explanations, and avoid bandwagons.

I am aware that according to my own advice, I am the logical choice for today's lynching - but so be it. The chances are, to-day, that a villager will die - if I can speak plainly for one day, and thereby save my village, it has been worth this miserable cheesemaker's life.

[Thinlómien]

Poor Valier. What evil did she ever do to anyone? She was a gentle spirit, may she rest in peace and find a better place where grass is greener, flowers blossom and no werewolves roam.

Gil is the incarnation of the-start-of-day1-ishness.

Rikae speaks sense, I grant her that. Her words are wise (yet obvious, but what else than obvious or nonsense you can talk on Day1?), but her manner bugs me a bit. I mean, she continuosly presents an assumption of the things and adds "of course, that applies to me" or something of the sort. That makes me uneasy. Why to do this? She seems to have acquinted herself with past villages (thus she has knowledge) and maybe she has noticed that adding oneself to one's own lists of possible baddies based on evidence is usually regarded as an innocentish thing? I mean, she's kind of lifting the suspicion of herself by herself, if you follow my meaning. I can't help getting the feeling that she tries to underline her innocence. You can't condemn anyone based on one single post, but I'll be watching Rikae.

I'm telling this now already; I unfortunately must vote quite early. (Check the TiG-junior thread.)

[Macalaure]

DOOM IS UPON US!

Flee! Hide!

The Things are after us! They will kill us if they can! They will turn us into one of their own kind!

Run! Hide!

Wait, better: Don't run! Don't hide! Better to die earlier than later! There's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide anyway.

[Macalaure]

*ahem*

Three things that go hunting for us in the night while we try to lynch them at day? Sounds strangely familiar. A dark doom has been laid upon me and my ancestors that we always get caught up in villages like that. So, let us try to save our skin, however futile the effort may seem.

How do we proceed?

Nice suggestions you gave there, Rikae.
Well, in a way...

Look for those who speak quickly, those who wish to lead.

Some innocents will try to lead us out of this misery, too. But you're right in part. Since a thing will die earlier than a wolf, they can lead us without worry. A wolf that leads us wrong will meet the vengeance of the innocents before the end, while a thing dies before that can happen.

Beware of those who are certain.

My lorebook tells me that this is exactly the image most things try to avoid. May not count for each of them, though.

Admittedly random accusations have meant innocence in other villages, for the innocent know they know nothing.
...
Demand explanations,

Isn't this a bit contradicting?
Random accusations are a curse, I tell you, even if admitted. They usually give the accuser a sure raise on everybody's suspicion list. Demanding explanation is a good counsel. Look for crooked explanations!

Beware of those who collaborate to defend anyone also, for only the things and the seer know who is who.

The weaver also knows a bit. And the wolves don't know the gifted villagers. Again, obvious collaboration is something things tend to avoid, at least usually. And if nobody dares to defend another, even if s/he does not know of the other's innocence, this village will turn into a mad chicken house.

and avoid bandwagons.

Be careful! The opposite often is even worse. If the votes are spread all over the village, then the few votes of the things will carry a heavier weight. It's best to first discuss whom to vote for and then build a well-reasoned bandwaggon. Bandwaggons are only really dangerous if they get out of control early in the day.

I will then try to be as helpful as I can in what little time I have, for my allegiance lies with the villagers, as my death will confirm.

Ai! But, unless you're the seer or weaver, it won't. You'll just be turned into one of them, and nobody will notice.


Hmmm. I have to admit that your post would usually make me very, very suspicious of you. But this is your first game, so I'll be nice.
For now...


It'll be interesting to see some new wolf/thing tactics this game. The things don't only have to think about whom they want out of the game, but also whom they want on their side.

edit:x-ed with Lommy

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Thiñlómien

Rikae speaks sense, I grant her that. Her words are wise (yet obvious, but what else than obvious or nonsense you can talk on Day1?), but her manner bugs me a bit. I mean, she continuosly presents an assumption of the things and adds "of course, that applies to me" or something of the sort. That makes me uneasy. Why to do this? She seems to have acquinted herself with past villages (thus she has knowledge) and maybe she has noticed that adding oneself to one's own lists of possible baddies based on evidence is usually regarded as an innocentish thing? I mean, she's kind of lifting the suspicion of herself by herself, if you follow my meaning. I can't help getting the feeling that she tries to underline her innocence. You can't condemn anyone based on one single post, but I'll be watching Rikae.

Interesting that you say she speaks sense, which, pardon me, she doesn't all the way through, but then pick on her because of her manner. Yes, she does some nilpish self-accusation, but everytime she does it's clearly in-character.
Do I have to worry about you, Lommy?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mac

triple post - urks

Haha, Mac, you're taking after me then.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Interesting that you say she speaks sense, which, pardon me, she doesn't all the way through, . . .

You pointed out some "flaws" or maybe "not thought-out-to-the-end" -things, that I did not notice or consider that important and helped me see her "reasonableness" partly in other light. Yet, I'd still say she makes sense (generally speaking, of course, I don't necessarily agree with her about everything, for example "being certain"; that varies too much from one baddie to another).

Originally Posted by Mac

. . . but then pick on her because of her manner. Yes, she does some nilpish self-accusation, but everytime she does it's clearly in-character.

I disagree about being in-character all the time. But let's not argue about that, the manner bugs me regardless of if it's in-character or not. Besides, I wouldn't compare her manner with Nilp's; Nilp says he's a wolf and Rikae just says that certain facts hint to her possible guilt. It is her manner that makes me wary of her, not her suggestions or something else. If she didn't have that self-accusing habit, she wouldn't probably seem suspicious to me. The points you, Mac, think make her wolvish-looking (or thingish-looking) I think could be interpreted in two ways; suspicious or not-considered-all-the-sides-of-the-matter. Without that "self-suspecting manner" I'd lean the later mentioned possibility, now I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Random accusations are a curse, I tell you, even if admitted. They usually give the accuser a sure raise on everybody's suspicion list. Demanding explanation is a good counsel. Look for crooked explanations!

Sorry, but I don't see your point here. Could you elaborate? Why are those statements contradicting? Am I stupid or are you not making sense?

[Macalaure]

If random accusations aren't a bad thing, then why demand explanations for them? I see a contradiction in that.

I'm not saying Rikae is thingish-looking. She's on the not-considered-all-the-sides-of-the-matter -side, as you say it. If a more experienced werewolfer said the same I would've been wary. But that is not the case. It remembers me of my first game. I followed some games before and thought I quite got the hang of it and vocally said so, but it wasn't the case on all occasions.

Good you explained yourself, Lommy. Your other post looked surprisingly thingish to me: Calling sense what wasn't entirely sense (and probably hoping other innocents would fall for it) to me, but calling her suspicious anyway.

[Glirdan]

Ah! Valier is dead!? How tragic!! I would discuss more but I must depart (OOC - school). I shall be back later on in the day.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Actuallt to me Rikae is the most non-thingish of those who has posted. Mac, you know that almost everything in this game is dubble edged, the same argument can be used to prove both innocens and guilt.

I for one like Rikae's style

I don't understand why you use so much time to attack her arguments, if you knew all along that you were not going to act on it

Originally Posted by Mac

Hmmm. I have to admit that your post would usually make me very, very suspicious of you. But this is your first game, so I'll be nice.

I AM THE WEAVER

(it is true look at my ocupation)


I will now go over Thinny's posts and see if I can make anything of them.

[Meneltarmacil]

Yo ho ho, me mateys! W've got some trouble in this village, it seems!

Catching these Things and making 'em walk the plank will be tough, as you really can't trust anyone, even known innocents. Shiver me timbers, it be a dire scenario! I personally would only follow up on suspicions rather than rely on "known innocents" here, as they have a way of changing on you.

Arrr, I don't know how honest you are there, Rune, but I don't think revealing yourself as the Weaver this early is a very wise thing to do, matey.

[Meneltarmacil]

Oh, uh, wait a second, there, matey. I see you're just making a little joke by referring to your occupation.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rune

Actuallt to me Rikae is the most non-thingish of those who has posted. Mac, you know that almost everything in this game is dubble edged, the same argument can be used to prove both innocens and guilt.

I for one like Rikae's style

I don't understand why you use so much time to attack her arguments, if you knew all along that you were not going to act on it

Once again, I don't think Rikae looks thingish.
My intention was not to attack her points. Sorry if it looks like that. But I think her points aren't sound, so I explained what I think about the matters, independent of her possible guilt. Because of the late (or should I say, early) deadline, many Europeans will be forced to vote long before it. The more important to get the discussion going soon, I think, and I saw a possibility for that.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yes. . .The only reason for me chosing that occupation was so that I could say those words!

[JennyHallu]

Hello Village.

I foresee a long and difficult day ahead, and suggest we get down to business.

Those who have posted:
Gil-Galad- Friendly neighborhood window cleaner
Rikae- Cheesemaker
Thinlomien- Blind gardener maid
Macalaure- Village Doomsayer
Glirdan- Town musician
Rune son of Bjarne- Weaver (not the actual one)
Meneltarmacil- Former pirate
JennyHallu- Prophetess

Those who have not:
Volo- Village loony/Poet
Kitanna- Hermit
Naria- Herbalist
Briseis- Seamstress
Folwren- Jack the Blacksmith
Nogrod- GoatHerder
Eonwe- Miller

We've got a good half the village active this morning, and therefore it's a safe bet that at least one of those who've posted is working against us. Ignoring Glirdy for now, since he merely checked in, I'm most inclined to believe that our problem child is Mac or Lommy, but this is bare bones gut-feeling, and has little significance.

Rikae's tone struck me as more than a little over-the-top for a first post, and I hardly understand why one would write a first post to warn about first posts (which have been proven to be of little true significance), but that's likely a rookie's exuberance, and therefore excusable.

[Volo]

Volo walked lazily into the crowd, he really didn't feel like thinking about anything else, except an idea he so wanted to write down but just didn't have time for it.
"Things aren't fine, are they? Some things sure make our things hard.

Well, like always, I'll say "well" and post something that makes some sence, but doesn't tell anybody anything new.

Rikae just told us how the game works, something that seems often done on the first day. I can mean anything at all.

But then straight on Mac, three posts after only three posts. Well, I agree, the first one wasn't that interesting and can be thrown out. May I ask how did you manage to cross-post with Lommy? It does seem somewhat thingy to say so much so early, like we have seen before . But then again, he didn't actually say much thingy stuff, seems pretty honest to me, even if too much.

Lommy seems as Lommy as ever, and those Lommy's I have seen weren't wolves. It feels like honest talk so far, without evil intent.

Everybody else have said too little for somebody like me to see. Even the blind seem to see more than me.

It sure might be that we have a thing or two in the skin of a sheep, but I find it too early to say anything. Except that I'll have to vote before some of you will even post their first post. For that don't be too harsh with my pointless vote."

Ah, at last Volo could sit down and write freely. Now this is life.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlomien

I mean, she continuosly presents an assumption of the things and adds "of course, that applies to me" or something of the sort. That makes me uneasy. Why to do this?

Because if I don't point it out, someone else will, and because I want to start discussion without pointing fingers at other people.
The village doomsayer appears to have extensive knowledge of this type of terrible situation, and yet, much of what he says appears to contradict what has happened in other villiages.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Since a thing will die earlier than a wolf, they can lead us without worry. A wolf that leads us wrong will meet the vengeance of the innocents before the end, while a thing dies before that can happen.

But in other villages, there has frequently been an 'alpha wolf' type who did take a leadership role, which allowed him/her to direct votes and appear knowledgable, helpful, indispensible...while the other two kept a low profile.
You are right in saying a thing has less need to worry about keeping our trust long-term. One of the things will be revealed tomorrow night, and they don't know which. I don't doubt they will accuse and defend with this in mind.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

My lorebook tells me that this is exactly the image most things try to avoid. May not count for each of them, though.

Try, yes, but according to the experiences of other villagers, the certainty of a wolf/thing has a tendancy to show through nonetheless.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Isn't this a bit contradicting?
Random accusations are a curse, I tell you, even if admitted. They usually give the accuser a sure raise on everybody's suspicion list. Demanding explanation is a good counsel. Look for crooked explanations!

Originally Posted by Macalaure

If random accusations aren't a bad thing, then why demand explanations for them? I see a contradiction in that.

I'm saying random accusations may be the act of an innocent who wishes to get his/her vote out of the way without starting a bandwagon.
I am certainly not saying others should join in on a random persecution. Just the opposite!

Originally Posted by Mac

Be careful! The opposite often is even worse. If the votes are spread all over the village, then the few votes of the things will carry a heavier weight.

Which will expose the things. Bandwagons are easy to hide in!

Originally Posted by Mac

Ai! But, unless you're the seer or weaver, it won't. You'll just be turned into one of them, and nobody will notice.

I did say day or night; I was thinking of Werewolf infestations, with which I am more familiar. You're right, of course.

Originally Posted by Mac

Hmmm. I have to admit that your post would usually make me very, very suspicious of you. But this is your first game, so I'll be nice.
For now...

Macalaure casts me in a bad light while simultaneously distancing himself and drawing attention to his own experience. I'm not saying it's thingish behavior, only that it might be worth taking note of.

Originally Posted by Rune

I don't understand why you use so much time to attack her arguments, if you knew all along that you were not going to act on it

Indeed.

EDIT: Xed with Volo and Jenny.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Calling sense what wasn't entirely sense (and probably hoping other innocents would fall for it) to me, but calling her suspicious anyway.

Can't a suspicious person make sense?

If random accusations aren't a bad thing, then why demand explanations for them? I see a contradiction in that.

If that was your point, I see your logic.

Jenny, you're probably right assuming that at least one of those who have posted is a thing, but I must say I personally dislike making a list that doesn't have anything to do with anything (suspicious behaviour, suspects etc.) and drawing mathemathical conclusions from it. The only thing that can be achieved from that is confusion. (If you used that as a prettier way to say who the posters this far is the most suspicious in your opinion, then I understand it, but would prefer it in a clearer form. Thank you.)

I must vote soon. I'm off to read through the thread and decide who I will vote. Today I won't be voting anyone who's not have a word, but the deadline being what it is (not meant as criticism) I can't afford that mercy in the days to come (assuming, of course, that I'm alive). Besides, I shouldn't have any reason to vote anyone who has not yet spoken...

EDIT: xed with Volo and Rikae

[Thinlómien]

Rikae seems a bit less suspicious in my opinion after her post; it has a general innocent feel. (Clearing up: Yes, I still think her somewhat suspicious.) There are a few things she says I disagree with/ consider strange:

Because if I don't point it out, someone else will . . .

I'm not sure if this is a very good argument. You can't escape suspicion and accusations by suspecting yourself, if that was your intent.

But in other villages, there has frequently been an 'alpha wolf' type who did take a leadership role, which allowed him/her to direct votes and appear knowledgable, helpful, indispensible...while the other two kept a low profile.

That is true, but we shouldn't count on that. Remember that it's easy for the baddies to play on our expectations of their behaviour. Much also depends on what kind of personalities the baddies are. If, for example, Nogrod, Boro and Mac were baddies, I doubt we'd have only one "alpha wolf" and the number of the "slip-under-the-radars" would consequently be much smaller...

Which will expose the things. Bandwagons are easy to hide in!

Yes, they are, but so are single votes. According to my experiences, bandwagoners tend to be analysed the most, especially if they lynch a wolf. One single vote can be seen only as a whim or differing opinion and then ignored.

PS. If you have not yet caught it, I use three dots with spaces between them, like this . . . to present that I have taken a passage out from a quotation.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

But in other villages, there has frequently been an 'alpha wolf' type who did take a leadership role, which allowed him/her to direct votes and appear knowledgable, helpful, indispensible...while the other two kept a low profile.

True. But there are always 'alpha innocents', who are knowledgable, helpful and indispensible. Lynching those is the joy of the things at night.

Try, yes, but according to the experiences of other villagers, the certainty of a wolf/thing has a tendancy to show through nonetheless.

I have the impression that it's the eagerness to avoid certainty that often gets wolves into trouble.

I'm saying random accusations may be the act of an innocent who wishes to get his/her vote out of the way without starting a bandwagon.
I am certainly not saying others should join in on a random persecution. Just the opposite!

Then we agree.

Bandwagons are easy to hide in!

Not always. The waggoneers will usually be closely examined the next day.


I generally hold the opinion that it's not good to narrow the search for things on specifics. Different things hide in different ways. Though everybody of course has some stereotypes in the back of their heads, it's best to have a wide view of everybody, though it's not always easy to.

Macalaure casts me in a bad light while simultaneously distancing himself and drawing attention to his own experience. I'm not saying it's thingish behavior, only that it might be worth taking note of.

It wasn't my intention to cast a bad light on you. After this post, I'm rather fond of your innocence actually. Also note that I defended you against Lommy. It was only a possibility to get people to discuss, to me. You know how slow and unsubstantial Day 1s often are in the beginning.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Can't a suspicious person make sense?

Sure. But if I suspect somebody to be a thing, I suspect there to be something wrong in the sense that is made.

[Thinlómien]

In principle I am/was against lynching newcomers so that they might have a chance to really play, but then I realised that were I still a newcomer to the wws, I wouldn't like anyone not to vote me solely based on my newcomerishness. Hopefully, Rikae, you feel the same way, because my vote will be for

++Rikae

She seems to be the most suspicious this far. Ironically, the more I read her posts, the less I suspect her, but as there's no one other I suspect, I "must" vote her.

As to the others, Volo and especially Rune feel innocent to me. (No, I don't have any specific reasons for this. It's just the general impression.) Of the others I can't say.

EDIT: xed with Mac

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

True. But there are always 'alpha innocents', who are knowledgable, helpful and indispensible. Lynching those is the joy of the things at night.

"Hmm... I don't really agree with you. They can be really misleading. But I hope you don't suggest being one yourself yet? Anyway I somehow don't like the tone of your talk."

Originally Posted by Mac

Not always. The waggoneers will usually be closely examined the next day.

"Wasn't that already said?"

EDIT: Cross-posted with Lommy, but it doesn't really make a difference.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

"Hmm... I don't really agree with you. They can be really misleading. But I hope you don't suggest being one yourself yet? Anyway I somehow don't like the tone of your talk."

a) Yes they can. They're as fallible as every ungifted. Still it's bad to lynch them.
b) No, I don't, but thanks for even assuming I would. Among those who play here, Nogrod fits the description most. Where is he?
c) I don't know what you mean.

[Volo]

c) My bad... By reading the stuff more carefully, it seems that I made a mistake.
b) Poor Nogrod, soon he'll be lynched every single game on day 2 if not killed on night 1... He should start making less points, for his own good.

[JennyHallu]

I'm sorry, Lommy, I wasn't aware I made any "mathematical" conclusions. What exactly is a mathematical conclusion? All I said was that most likely a Thing had already posted. How exactly are you trying to refute that?

Lommy, your arguments on Rikae seem to make little sense, and Mac also seems overly aggressive over what little has been said today.

What worries me about this is that there seems to be a strong Lommy vs. Mac dynamic developing, but Lommy voted Rikae, for reasons which seem (to me) facetious. Especially since most of her posts have been about how she disagrees with Mac and thinks Rikae "slightly less suspicious". Her posts are confusing and random. Mac's are aggressive.

I suppose that means I suspect Lommy most, and then Mac. So far.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

In principle I am/was against lynching newcomers so that they might have a chance to really play, but then I realised that were I still a newcomer to the wws, I wouldn't like anyone not to vote me solely based on my newcomerishness. Hopefully, Rikae, you feel the same way, because my vote will be for

++Rikae

She seems to be the most suspicious this far. Ironically, the more I read her posts, the less I suspect her, but as there's no one other I suspect, I "must" vote her.

Hmm, suspects me less, but votes for me anyway - and this means in the event of a tie vote, I die.
No hard feelings, though. If I were you, and had to vote early, I would have voted for me also, or Mac, simply for being vocal.I couldn't see you voting for Mac, since in spite of your disagreements, neither of you seems to suspect the other. (Mac's statement "Do I have to worry about you, Lommy? " seems to imply he doesn't need to worry about her).

EDIT: X posted with Jenny

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Rikae

No hard feelings, though. If I were you, and had to vote early, I would have voted for me also, or Mac, simply for being vocal.I couldn't see you voting for Mac, since in spite of your disagreements, neither of you seems to suspect the other.

"Well why do you talk so as if you're trying to get yourself lynched :/ and what more reason does Lommy have to vote you than Mac."

and this means in the event of a tie vote, I die.

"What do you mean? (Just to get rid of confusion)

Should I vote now, or without any new information later, I won't have time to read and think..." :/

[Gil-Galad]

Aye, Rikae is not that suspicous in my eye, but if she turns out to actually be a thing then we've all been played for fools this first day.

right now i am looking at Rune, though his occupation is The Weaver(not real) we may happen to overlook it and he may be a Thing hiding.

Thus my vote must go to Rune, it probably won't be to effect but its a start.

++Rune son of Bjarne

[Volo]

"Ok, this might be nearly as random as Gil's vote, but here it goes.

++Macalaure, too much explaining talk. Just like Boromir last game. I hope I don't make a big mistake here as Mac really is a usefull guy if innocent. Let this be the rare occasion when I apologize in WW without sence yet.

Ok, bye. I might say something some time, but now I'll be away for a few hours at least. And probably for the rest of the day."

[JennyHallu]

Rikae, dear, you really don't need to panic. In the event of a tie vote, the first to get a vote of the individuals in question dies. For example, if the votes were

Bob
Tom
Bubba
Tom
Bubba
Tom
Tom
Bubba
Bob
Bubba

You have a final vote count of Bob - 2, Tom - 4, Bubba - 4.

Tom dies. Bob's fine, he didn't get the most votes.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Thinlomien and Mac are the ones I am most focused on in the moment, of course they have been doing most of the talking.

Rikae seems innocent to me at this moment.

Gil, shows up and votes for me, not very useful, but kind of Gil-Galadish. . .

I will not pay any atention to Glirdy just yet.

Then there is Jenny and Volo, I don't know what to make of them. I might end up voting for one of them, I might end up thinking them inocent. . ..

I think I will direct my attention to Jenny, Volo, Mac and Lommy today.

[Rikae]

I have work to do, although it's difficult to tear myself away, perhaps to come back and find myself condemned, but there's nothing else for it.
I'll just say where my thoughts are at the moment:
Mac- I have some slight suspicion because of the information he gave to contradict my original points, which didn't seem particularly accurate and seemed designed to generate suspicion toward me rather than to shed light on the situation, at such an early point in the game that he could not have known my status unless he was a thing or the seer, and I doubt the seer would choose to dream about a rookie (of course,I know if he was the Seer he wouldn't be casting doubt on me, but you don't know that!). It is, however, entirely possible he was only offering the other perspective to make us aware of all possibilities. I'm reserving judgement for now. Still, his seeming mock-suspicion toward Lommy also raised warning signals for me.
Lommy - Argued with Mac, but never suspected him, and voted for me while claiming she thought I was innocent. On the one hand, this resembles the "innocent voting randomly without intending to actually lynch that person" scenario I had previously described - on the other hand, doing what has just been described as innocent behavior is rather thingish in itself. I also have a gut feeling that she and Mac have some sort of understanding, and that is, of course, suspicious.
Rune - Seems innocent, simply because he didn't join in Mel and Lommy's accusations toward me.
Jenny -Seems to be, like me, the target of some random suspicion from Lommy, which inclines me to believe she's innocent. Then again, that could be a trick - one thing distancing itself from another.
Gil-Galad - His vote for Rune seems fairly random, but is in keeping with his past behavior (or so I heard at the convention). I don't suspect him.
Volo- I can't make sense of his posts, which makes me slightly uneasy.

EDIT - X posted with Rune and Volo - and Volo's post made him appear more innocent in my eyes.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Often, those that spoke first were wolves; I trust you will understand that I speak first now so that others may have the courage to speak their minds also, and if I go to my death today or tonight at least I will have had my say.

I am aware all three of these statements apply to me, and therefore my chances of seeing sunset are quite slim already. I will then try to be as helpful as I can in what little time I have, for my allegiance lies with the villagers, as my death will confirm.

I am aware that according to my own advice, I am the logical choice for today's lynching - but so be it.

Your constant return to the idea of being lynched is not instilling much confidence within me. It seems each time you bring it up in this first post you are trying to play the innocent and gain our pity by "admitting" you are a likely canidate for the noose. I find what you say sense, so I can't see why you would claim it would be the death of you. If anything ends your life today it will be the references to how your life will end today.

Some innocents will try to lead us out of this misery, too. But you're right in part. Since a thing will die earlier than a wolf, they can lead us without worry. A wolf that leads us wrong will meet the vengeance of the innocents before the end, while a thing dies before that can happen.

Keep in mind the Weaver, the Seer, and the Ranger (more than just innocents, super innocents if you will) are probably going to be trying to lead as well as the Things. It's hard to be rational Day One, but don't be rash and jump immediately on the leaders. Think before acting.

Random accusations are a curse, I tell you, even if admitted. They usually give the accuser a sure raise on everybody's suspicion list. Demanding explanation is a good counsel. Look for crooked explanations!

I say I'd rather see a random vote than no vote though. Because most times even the most random vote has some sort of reasoning behind it. Even with flimsy reasoning it is better to give a reason than simply vote and hope for the best.

Because if I don't point it out, someone else will

[sarcasm]And thus the point of the game was realized...[/sarcasm]
Someone is going to suspect you and often times due to posts that state "I know I look guilty and I'll probably be lynched, but..."

Which will expose the things. Bandwagons are easy to hide in!

Lone votes are equally as easy to hide in. Safe votes are common, so while one Thing might jump on a bandwagon the other two could just do little safe votes to cover their tracks. Much can be taken from bandwagon votes.

I think Mac and Rikae are the most suspicious so far (for me at least) and Lommy comes in a distant third.

Rikae's first vote makes me feel very uneasy. Her constant return to the fact "I'll probably be lynched" and "My death will prove my innocence" is unnerving. Also I'm a bit suspcious of the comparsions of other games, when comparing this villages to other villages could have no real bearing in the end. Her points in the first post state the obvious and though she hasn't taken all sides into consideration I think she is thinking logically. I was extremely worried about her after reading her first posts, but my susipicions have lessened a bit after reading further.

Mac on the other hand. I am far more worried about him. Some have commented on his attack of Rikae and of him showing her in a bad light. He has said he wasn't and he didn't mean too. This is what worries me. He went through her post, picked it apart, threw a lot of attention in her direction and then says "no, no, I was just pointing this out...". I worry because commenting on one or two points is nothing serious, but he did more than one or two points. And he keeps returning to his defense of "not attacking Rikae" causing her to remain in the spotlight. Rikae was already in the spotlight because of Lommy, but Mac continued to keep her there. He states he "defended" Rikae against Lommy and that screams guilty in my mind. He's making sure we notice Rikae and if she dies innocent in the next day or two we'll remember Mac was saying so all along. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it seems a bit foul to me.