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Old 11-27-2005, 11:57 AM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
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White Tree LotR --- Appendix A: I, (i) - (iii) -- Númenor - Heirs of Isildur

Were you one of the readers who, like me, was disappointed that the story of LotR was over halfway through the RotK volume? Or did you jump into the Appendices and enjoy getting additional information there? It will be interesting to see how many people take enough interest to participate in the discussions of the Appendices.

Appendix A is a mini-Silmarillion, and for the first generation or so of readers, it was the only one they had. It tells the stories of Elves and Men in the First and Second Age, into the Third Age as well, giving vital background information that was not included in the actual story of the LotR. Perhaps Tolkien saw this as his chance to get at least the bare bones of his Legendarium published! However, there's not enough space for more than the basic facts.

Are there parts of these passages that are important to you, or has the Silmarillion superceded them? One line about the Númenoreans jumped out at me upon rereading:
Quote:
...their years lessened as their fear of death grew...
Self-fulfilling prophecy?!

We have many names listed; that may be useful for research, if someone is writing a fan fiction or RPG, but do you skip them when reading? Geography is also an important part of this Appendix, with borders of kingdoms and lands being described.

We have brief stories about the Witch-King of Angmar, the Dúnedain, and Celebrian, among others. Any comments?

I hope this introduction is enough to spark a good discussion; these are not my favourite parts of the book, so I do beg your pardon if my own comments lack some of the enthusiasm I had during the story proper!
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Old 11-27-2005, 01:24 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar
We have many names listed; that may be useful for research, if someone is writing a fan fiction or RPG, but do you skip them when reading? Geography is also an important part of this Appendix, with borders of kingdoms and lands being described.
I love names...

I'm too lazy to learn languages, or more than smatterings of them, but I love hearing them, and Tolkien's Elvish tongues are right up there with Latin and German as favourites to roll off my tongue.

"Tar-Elendil, Tar-Meneldur, Tar-Aldarion..." "Elendil, Isildur, Valandil..." "Araphant, Arvedui, Aranarth..."

As a great lover of background information, I love Appendix A. I love the history of the Dunedain, laid out over the course of the years, following the progression of their race from Elros to Elessar. There are just enough hints of the stories behind them to spark the imagination, but not so much as to make it a long, boring chronicle. Those unexplained daggers behind the names of the Dunedain Chieftains are perhaps more intriguing that the explained ones.

As far as reading the Appendices regularly, I'll admit that I tend not to anymore, but that's mainly because I've come to know them fairly well, and their contents, once known, lack the entertainment element of the main story that is provided in reading and rereading the great tale and revelling in its fine craft.
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Old 11-27-2005, 02:00 PM   #3
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Like Esty I’m not a big fan of the Appendices. There are certainlly some very interesting incidents recounted, but all in all, they are primarily for reference & background. Tolkien himself noted that the only really necessary sections for understandding the story are The Tale of Aragorn & Arwen & the Shire Calendar.

The story of Numenor was a relatively recent invention of Tolkien’s - the original mythology consisted only of the First Age. Yet the image of the great wave overwhelming the land was a recurring one for Tolkien (he gives it to Faramir in the book).

The Downfall of Numenor is yet another story of pride leading to a fall. What begins as a reward for the Edain’s service in the fight against Morgoth ends with the most spectacularly devastating event in Middle-earth history - the very world itself is changed by the direct intervention of Eru. The originally flat world was made round. The strangest thing about this is that there are individuals around at the time of LotR who had lived in (on?) the flat earth.

Its difficult not to feel that the whole Numenor thing was a major mistake on the part of the Valar. The longer life gifted to the Edain of Numenor is what, in the end, produced their rebellion. The fact that they had longer in the world made them desire it more & wish to remain. To situate it within sight of the Undying Lands, allow the Eldar to visit it, & yet forbid the Numenoreans to travel there was bound to lead to trouble ( the Undying Lands were like the Edenic Apple - pointed out to the inhabitants who are then left alone with their temptation - asking for trouble, one might say.

The Numenorean’s rise seems inexorable, the ultimate challenge to Sauron inevitable. Their fleet & armies terrify Sauron’s armies & humiliate him. There is no mention of Sauron himself being daunted by the Numenorean’s. By the time he is captured & taken to Numenor, the Numenoreans are fallen so far that they are an easy prey. Its difficullt to know what he expected to happen to the Numenorean fleet that assaulted Valinor, but what actually happened probably came as a shock.

Of course, as I said, all this is background, & not strictly necessary - the important information has already been conveyed in the story proper (The Shadow of the Past/Council of Elrond chapters) but it does add a sense of depth & of the feeling of a weight of history behind the events of the story.

The story of the Kingdom of Arnor is one of fragmentation & infighting leading to weakness. The Witch king takes advantage of the situation to serve his master to devastating effect, & the result is the fall of the realm.

I suppose the most interesting event in this section is the encounter of Arvedui with the Lossothclearly a people akin to the Innuit & (more likely, given Tolkien’s love of the Kalevala) the Lapps.

The Lossoth themselves seem to be of the same kind as the Wild Men of Druadan forest, ‘primitive’ people living in wild places. They are very much in touch, & in harmony, with the natural world. We seem to have a situation very similar to the Homo Sapiens/Neanderthal one in our world.

The oddest thing about this incident is the location. As Alex lewis pointed out in his article ‘The Icing on the Cape’ in Amon Hen 102, the Ice Bay of Forochel is only 250 miles north of Hobbiton. In the Shire the Hobbits grow both grapes & tobacco, both of which require a warm climate, yet less than 300 miles to the north we find arctic conditions - ice only just beginning to break in March (& that ice a long way out to sea). Lewis points out that this means the sea would be frozen solid for over six months of the year.

Tolkien points out that the bitter colds of the realm of Morgoth ‘linger still in that region, though they lie hardly more than 100 leagues north of the Shire’. As Lewis points out ‘So from this one can see that even Tolkien considered the climactic conditions at Forochel anomalous.’

Lewis comes up with an interesting theory to account for the ice bound state of Forochel:

Quote:
When Morgoth fought Fingolfin the High King of the Noldor used a sword called Ringil, which was ice-blade or "cold star" in translation. It was described as glittering I Iike ice. This could perhaps have been a magic blade of great power. It would certainly have had enormous powers to be able to inflict terrible wounds upon Morgoth, a Vala. It is worth remembering that Tolkien gave names to things and people with a purpose and those names signified something. Ringil, the cold star has the key to a puzzle for me. ...

If Ringil was seized by Morgoth after he defeated Fingolfin and then twisted its powers to his own uses, then an ice-blade, a cold star might have found its resting place in the bosom of the earth under the sea in old drowned Beleriand to the north where Angband lay, which is not far removed from Forochel. ...

So was Ringil overlooked in the general mayhem of the War of Wrath? Had its power been corrupted by Morgoth to remain after him as a constant reminder that his powers were only exiled and not destroyed?
Ok, take that with a pinch of salt if you like, but at the very least there’s the potential for an interesting fanfic or RPG there....

Last edited by davem; 11-27-2005 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:38 AM   #4
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Brings things long forgotten back, this...

Appendices, upon a time, were a blessing for me. I was thirsty, nay, even greedy to lay my hands on them and I've only got a chance of reading appendices some years after I've read actual story itself, since first USSR tranlsation was published without appendices at all. Appendices I've got as a 'samizdat' (USSR term, referred to forbidden or otherwise unavailable literature which was copied on a typewriter and distributed in secret from hand to hand) translation. It came to me in a much beaten leather portfolio through long line of acquaintances, third cousins once removed, friends' neighbours, 'woman who sells me greens' and 'girl I know in my school', part typed and part copied with a copier, with fingerprints of my longreaders before me. Also, I was sworn (almost on my own blood) I would return them in three days and would not try to misappropriate them whatever desire One Appendix To Rule Them All may evoke in my frail soul.

I certainly remember thirsting for more, with more detail, with more plot, with more more. And I've read them several times in a row, four, if my memory is not failing me. But than, the suspense was built up over time and fey mood was upon me.

Now, as I have bookshelf full of HoME's, UT's and Silmarillions in multitude of editions, cold morn is come and I'm not likely to go beyond Sam's 'I'm back' in my rereadings.
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:21 PM   #5
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Yea Heren, at the time the appendixes were all we had. This is where the Depth dwelt. Lots of referring to maps. It is interesting to see where the author was going. Like much of our own history, a lot of it was lists of Important names, and maps. genious effect

things that stuck on me from A,I, II,III

the importance of Umbar, and how Sauron remembered the place where his humility was brought to him.

the history of Arnor and the Witchking. Also the involvement of the Shire folk. The "carts without wheels" is funny. It is interesting that, despite the detail, there is little mention of these folk in LOTR, as their southern cousins got a whole chapter in RoTK (well distant cousins to the Wild men).

the northern palantiri

Quote:
: no likeness remained in Middle-earth of Laurelin the Golden
I wonder why this was?

Quote:
At the Grey Havens dwelt Cirdan the Shipwright, and some say he dwells there still, until the Last Ship sets sail into the West.
extremely open ended statement
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Old 12-01-2005, 04:10 PM   #6
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I am one of those strange people who enjoys reading the Appendices. I like factual books - and the more strictly factual the better, as shown by my determination a few years ago to learn the Periodic Table 'because it was there', and I love a good Atlas or encyclopedia. Hey, call me a nerd.

When I read the Appendices (which usually means jumping in at random to see what I can find in a spare five minutes) I often get the impression that Tolkien himself loved this kind of thing. I wonder if he had piles of notebooks with chronologies and family trees and such like stashed away which he would guiltily tinker with when he was supposed to be getting on with writing his story - Tolkien's equivalent of the garden shed, where men go to count nails and potter about. In the new Scull/Hammond book, it says that Tolkien had the idea of putting all the appendices in a separate volume but they were later put into RotK in a much condensed version; he was still tinkering with the appendices in March 1955 and the publishers were getting restive about getting RotK out and in to shops.

I can't imagine the books without them; until relatively recently, single volume editions lacked the full appendices and I know of people who have read LotR several times but never the appendices! Do we need to read them though? They include a lot of information that isn't strictly necessary, but what they do give us is a taste for further stories about Tolkien's world. Some (most?) of those stories were never written, and that's where RPGs and fan-fics come in - the appendices must be a huge source of inspiration for writers and gamers. And though I find there is little to argue about in them, as they consist mainly of facts rather than prose, I would be lost without them as they add a sense of richness and depth, of history to Middle-earth.
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:11 PM   #7
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I hardly dare show myself here again, I feel so ashamed that I haven't managed to follow the discussions
Time is always running too fast for me!

Anyhow, I am one who loves the appendices. I already started browsing in them even before I had finished the book!
It is as Davem says
Quote:
it does add a sense of depth & of the feeling of a weight of history behind the events of the story.
I remember though that the beginning "Fëanor was the greates of the Eldar in arts and lore..." etc left me rather puzzled. What were Eldar and Edain? It made me very eager to read the Silmarillion and to learn more about these things!
There are many things in the appendices though that aren't in the Sil, like the story of the hapless Arvedui. And some interesting details about the ring of Barahir, the Palantiri etc.

btw, the new German Translation of the LotR is sold as a box with the 3 volumes in it - without the appendices! You have to buy those separately! I know of people who had no idea that there was such a thing as appendices!! Perhaps they aren't necessary for everyone, but the readers should have at least the choice to read them, or part of them.
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Old 12-11-2005, 09:42 PM   #8
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To me one of the more interesting points of this Appendix, when I first read it many years ago about the same time the Silmarillion was first published, was that (correct me if I'm wrong about this) it makes the only mention of Eru in LOTR "The Valar laid down their Guardianship and called upon the One,..."

That suddenly gave Tolkien's world a whole different complexion, that it was fundamentally a monotheistic one--well, maybe it would have been obvious if I had been older or known more about Tolkien's life at the time.
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Old 05-31-2006, 06:41 AM   #9
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To me, the Appendices are of extreem importance.
When I first read LoTR in the early 1960s, I ploughed through them with both fascination and frustration.

The reasons for my fascination, especially with The Tale of Years, will be obvious to anyone who has read the Appendices. My frustration arose from finding that there was so little detail given for important events; much more than the hints of deep history given in The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings but still not enough to satisfy me.
My greatest frustration was because of the almost zero information from the First Age. At that time, it seemed unlikely that The Silmarillion would ever be published. I lived in fear that I would never get to know more.
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Old 09-01-2006, 03:01 AM   #10
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I believe Sauron did posses a gift of foresight. He's wise didn't he? i believe he foresaw that someday, an heir of isildur would've rise and dispose him out of his dark throne. this lead to his effort to end the line of isildur. aragorn father and grandfather was slain by sauron's servants. If you read The Fellowship Of The Ring, Aragorn did mentioned to Frodo during their meeting at Bree that the enemy did attempted to laid trap on him. One thing that i think that unbalance Sauron's plan (he has plan for everything) is the involvement of Hobbits in the War Of The Ring. He didn't put them in his calculations just like when Morgoth mistakenly leaving the Edain out of his calculations when he made war upon the Noldor. This cost him his early campaign.
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Old 09-15-2006, 06:56 AM   #11
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I loved the appendices! Loved it to bits! They gave the world of Middle-earth a feel of epic grandeur and made it felt as if that world really existed and it progressed from what could pass of as its late classical era of antiquity to an High Medival medieval age. If the general concensus in LMP's thread on the writer's conceit was that LoTR was intended as a historical accord, then the appendices gave the book its gravitas.

Don't hate me! But must admit rather shamefully that I had a better time reading the appendices than the last parts of LoTR proper after the fall Barad Dur. Must be the history lover (or monster ) in me.
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