**TTT Extended Edition - additional scenes**

[HCIsland]

You know, many of us enjoyed the theatrical version. It is a solid film - it did get an Oscar nomination after all. It is by no means perfect. I myself prefer Fellowship and neither of these films would I consider as my favourite of all time (though Fellowship makes my top ten list).<P>With all the garbage that gets thrown at us in the theaters, from the pretentious to the mindless fluff, I find it strange that this film should receive such ire. Anyone has every right not to like it, but calling it crap as a statement of fact is simply not true.<P>Just thought I would put in a point from the other side. <P>H.C.

[Meela]

I would say 'hear, hear' but I hate that phrase...<P>I agree. I've enjoyed watching TTT: the threatrical since I first saw it. I never understood why people had to get at it so much. It's a good film that captures the basic content and meaning of the book from which it was adapted. Just because there are a few changes, it doesn't make it a bad movie. Heck, I would probably change some stuff if I were adapting it. Not everything in the book works in a film.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

<B>lindil</B>, your comment on the 'Scout' is too true. Its a bit like the "Fire Arrows!" line. Nevertheless, I can live with that.<P>I'd also like to point out the scene before the Warg attack which had Aragorn talking with Theoden. It was very nice that Eowyn's situation was explained a bit more, how her parents had died, how she never smiled, etc.<P>I noticed that Theoden's battle scenes were slightly improved, especially at the Door of Helms Deep where he chops off that Orc's arm! There are a couple of extra shots of Theoden fighting which I much appreciate.

[lindil]

Assuming HC and Meeela your defense of the Theatrical TTT was a response to my [truly] harsh criticisms, and my neglecting to mention that all such harsh criticism was <I>my opinion</I> and not [yet] universally accepted fact , apologies to all around. I was [in my mind] mixing the various replies with the other ext. TTT thread, where I <I>do</I> remember to qualify myself. <P>HC posted: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> With all the garbage that gets thrown at us in the theaters, from the pretentious to the mindless fluff, I find it strange that this film should receive such ire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>You find it strange that many peoples reactions on a Books oriented Tolkien board to major re-characterizations [sorry Meela, I can not see calling PJ's Aragorn, Arwen, Faramir and Elrond [[too name a few]] 'a few changes'] strange?<P>Hmmm, I would say that <I>not</I> understanding/expecting etc, [not too mention agreeing ] is strange .<p>[ November 21, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Imladris]

This is my personnal opinion about TTT theatrical release: It was action action action action and then more action. There was no character developement. The only thing they developed was Aragorn and Arwen (and the only scene that should have had Arwen was when Arwen's fate was explained because that really is important). Faramir's change was justified in the Extended Edition and now I'm okay with that. <P>Aragorn falling off the cliff ---? I personally can't see any reason why PJ did that excpet to create suspense maybe? Give Liv more screen time? (Ugh). Anyway, I'm okay with it because it gave an opportunity for a sweet exchange between Legolas and Aragorn and it doesn't really affect the story at all<P>The thing I like about the EE is that they added more character developement and added more scenes from the book into it.

[Meela]

I wasn't getting at your comments, I was agreeing with HC. I've always thought that TTT was a good film.<P>I know there was more than a few changes, and some of them I may not agree with entirely. But generally, I think there's nothing wrong with adapting some of the characters to fit your own ideas and adaptations. I think some of the changes to the characters, especially Faramir, made it better.

[Gilthalion]

I've been listening to the Director/Writers Commentary and PJ & Co did address the matter of Aragorn's plunge over the cliff.<P>Cinematically, they felt that this seeming death heightened the emotional reaction of the other cast members. It provided an opportunity for more business with Arwen, who (in part due to internet fan reaction) was dropped from a major deviation that would have brought her to Helm's Deep. To sustain the love interest for a theatre audience across three films required that SOMETHING be done. "The Grace of the Valar" scene demonstrates their connection and its emotion was heightened by the sense that Aragorn was nearly killed. Had it not been for that "grace," which Arwen's intercession seemed to bring, he still might not have survived. The XTTT further enjoys the ironly that Brego was the very horse that earlier had been set free by Aragorn (another xscene that added so much to the interpretation). It also provided a way for Aragorn to be the one to bring news of the army of uruks advancing on Helm's Deep. <P>While such plot devices were not necessary in in the literature, departures of this kind have to be expected in a cinematic interpretation. I do not find myself upset by such deviations, as long as they are done well and in the spirit of Tolkien's creation. I did not find either Aragorn's tumble at the end of a warg attack, or the reinterpretation of Faramir, to be disturbing in any way. The XTTT, does bring Faramir into sharper view.<P>It was with a smile that I watched the backstory of the change during the creation of the films from the Xenarwen concept to Professor Tolkien's Arwen. Incorporating the future story of Arwen from the Appendices was brilliant, and brilliantly done.<P>I did not even mind the Elves sending a small force to Helm's Deep.<P>What chaps my hide is that all the Barrow-Downs gets is a measly couple of lines from Gollum in the Dead Marshes! (Just kidding.)<P>Again, what I keep in mind is that this is a cinematic interpretation and not direct translation of the literature. It is the very scope, depth, power, and glory of the tale as Tolkien wrote it that makes LOTR impossible to translate to any screen with much more than an image of the the whole. <P>What makes the movies work in the end (with all due regard to the gifted writing, directorial genius, brilliant artistry, glorious music, dedicated craftsmanship, and inspired acting), is that the spirit of Tolkien's work shines through this almost perfect interpretation. It is the devotion and dedication of an incredible team of people to be true to this spirit that makes these movies such a great body of work.<P>What I find personally interesting is how much and how well this work effected the lives of those who carried it out (and who are indeed still working on it).

[Imladris]

Thanks for that info about the commentary, Gilthalion. I think that's a very good reason to go changing things around.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> You find it strange that many peoples reactions on a Books oriented Tolkien board to major re-characterizations [sorry Meela, I can not see calling PJ's Aragorn, Arwen, Faramir and Elrond [[too name a few]] 'a few changes'] strange?<P>Hmmm, I would say that not understanding/expecting etc, [not too mention agreeing ] is strange .<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fair point, lindil. A forum like this is likely to have more than its fair share of those who would like to see the films mirror the books as much as possible. My only gripe with this is that, given the context in which the films were made, I see it as an unrealistic expectation. It is a hackneyed argument, and one that I have made many times, but I will make it again. Given the investment required to make these films to a sufficient standard of (cinematic) quality and to bring Tolkien's <I>vision</I> of Middle-earth to life, compromises were inevitable so as to draw box-office success. The films had to appeal to the majority of film-goers who have never (and, in many cases, probably never will) read the books. It is for this reason that I think that the films should be judged for what they are, cinematic adaptions of the books. They are not, and never could be attempts faithfully to reproduce the story told in the books. <P>Changes were inevitable, both to the story and to the characterisations, in order to gain the mass appeal that the fims required. And this was especially so with the second instalment, which never really goes anywhere in the book. It didn't need to as it was the "middle of the story". But, as a film, it had to stand by itself. So it required a major climax, and this was provided by Helm's Deep. But the story of Sam and Frodo needed a climax too. Since Shelob was relegated to the third film (for very good reasons in my view, which I will not go into here), the journey to Osgiliath provided this. Hence the need for the change in Faramir's character, so as to delay the moment at which he finally lets Frodo and Sam continue with their Quest.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Faramir's change was justified in the Extended Edition and now I'm okay with that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I must say that I did get from the portrayal of Faramir in the theatrical release that he was uncomfortable with what he was doing, but considered himself duty bound to do it. But the Osgiliath scene in the extended edition does make this point so much clearer. As I have said, I would have included this in the theatrical release. Or at least a line at Henneth Annun to the effect of "For my own part, I would not take it, not if I found it on the highway, but my father desires it so".<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aragorn falling off the cliff ---? I personally can't see any reason why PJ did that excpet to create suspense maybe? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is probably the scene that I would have replaced with the re-taking of Osgiliath, since I do find it to be gratuitous. I can see the points that Gilthalion makes, by reference to the commentary on the special edition, but I do feel that those aspects that were necessary (Arwen's development and the realisation of the force that they were facing) could have been acheived by other means. I liked the inclusion of the Warg attack (save for the visualisation of the so-called Wargs), but I would have ditched the whole Aragorn over the cliff thing.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Again, what I keep in mind is that this is a cinematic interpretation and not direct translation of the literature. It is the very scope, depth, power, and glory of the tale as Tolkien wrote it that makes LOTR impossible to translate to any screen with much more than an image of the the whole. <P>What makes the movies work in the end (with all due regard to the gifted writing, directorial genius, brilliant artistry, glorious music, dedicated craftsmanship, and inspired acting), is that the spirit of Tolkien's work shines through this almost perfect interpretation. It is the devotion and dedication of an incredible team of people to be true to this spirit that makes these movies such a great body of work.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Excellently put, Gilthalion. I must remember to copy and paste your comments next time I am trying to express my views on these films. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It provided an opportunity for more business with Arwen, who (in part due to internet fan reaction) was dropped from a major deviation that would have brought her to Helm's Deep. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Interesting that the fan's reaction did provoke a change of approach. Perhaps there is a chance of a reprieve for Saruman in RotK yet.

[Elennar Starfire]

Does Denethor have different coloured eyes?!?!? It seemed to me that he has one blue eye and one green eye, but it might have just been the light. What do you all think?

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Aragorn falling off the cliff ---? I personally can't see any reason why PJ did that excpet to create suspense maybe? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It could serve no purpose but that. And to give Arwen some more screen time (as was said before). I know I heard at least 20-30 people say that they 'knew that Aragorn couldn't have really died, because they'd seen trailers with him at a big battle. And that hadn't happened yet.' Some people don't think of that during the movie, but most do. I would've liked to see Faramir/Boromir/Denethor instead of the cliff-falling scene .

[HCIsland]

Aragorn falling off the cliff never bothered me. The story needs a down turn here. I don't think you can have the Warg attack (which I thought was a good idea) without something bad happening. It just would make the whole sequence pointless. I think we needed someone to see the army approaching and Aragorn would be the best candidate. Plus, as has already been mentioned, it gives us the moment between Aragorn and Legolas overlooked by Eowyn which I like very much and a sequa to the fate of Arwen sequence which I also greatly enjoyed. There's a number of reasons for it to be there, at least as much as, say, Frodo seeming to be dead after being speared in Moria. <P>I also finished watching the director's commentary tonight and found it interesting that the Boromir/Faramir/Denethor scene was a pick-up. I also found it interesting that twice Boyens and Walsh began almost appologizing (again, almost) regarding Faramir. There was much explanation of shooting the material two years previously and then having to work on what you had. I think they are happy with the decision to go to Osgiliath with Frodo and Sam, but I think they weren't 100% pleased with the way Faramir came out.<P>I got the impression (and this could be me reading between the lines incorrectly) that when they looked at the rough cut they realized how shallow Faramir was coming across. I would suspect that was the reason for the Boromir pick-up, to try and give some back story to Faramir. Of course, in the end this was cut as well. They don't talk too much about the reasons why so I can only assume that it was felt that adding yet another character, Denethor, while cutting to another location would only work to confuse many of the audience.<P>I found it funny how they were saying that when they were previewing the film for New Line, they were perpetually getting confused regarding geography so PJ added the map scene late in production. Also, in the shot where Faramir and company are approaching Osgiliath towards the end of the film, you can see Minas Tirith in the background but some of their preview audience thought that was Helm's Deep (again, confused about geography), so they painted it out for the theatrical release. Minas Tirith is back in on the Extended Edition though.<P>H.C.

[Eurytus]

I do find it quite interesting that many people on this board seem to hold both of these, seemingly contradictory positions.<P>1. The films should mirror the books as closely as possible. Most if not all changes made harm the films.<P>2. The best of the new scenes in the EE is the one between Faramir, Boromir and Denethor. A scene which, if memory serves, is not present in LOTR at all.<P>Given the money the theatrical editions made it is hard to say that PJ made wrong choices in regards to what he decided to include. And seeing the EE’s of both films so far, I think it superb that fans have the opportunity to receive another version that both builds on and adds to the one we have already seen.

[Man-of-the-Wold]

For me, too, the Theatrical Film-TT goes on the shelf, 'cept for one marathon showing with theaterical FotR and RotK next year.<P>For me, the Wargs, MIA Aragorn & the Coming of Haldir's Special Forces are grating as a Book-lover, even as I do enjoy watching them on Film, and they can be justified as showing things that in the Books are relate second-hand, and the southward march of the Lothlórian Elves does echo (not coincidently in my mind) early JRRT conceptions, as found in HoME XII/XIII, which I know Fran and Phillipa have read. Overall, the middle chapters of Book III are simply conceptualized somewhat differently by the Film but in a generally acceptable way.<P>The failure of the Entmoot to directly resolve to go to war is for me a petty divergence and distraction, which I detest, and which conflicts now in EE-Film-TT with Gandalf's avalanche metaphor and allusion to the rise of the Ents.<P>The Arwen stuff is for me OK speculative background (except for Agent Elrond's whining), consistent with one of the most sublime things in the English language——App. A, I (v), and perhaps, retrospect by JRRT to have done more with that Lúthien-like character.<P>I think the EE largely rescues Faramir, as much as any character, despite the unavoidable simplifications, abridgements, ommissions, compression of time, re-juxtaposition of lines, scenes & places, visually driven renderings, compositing of characters, changes of emphasis, and other such devices to adapt a story to screen.<P>Even in the Book, other threads have pointed out how Faramir's conversion and enlightenment is not quite so immediate or clearcut as some would like to recall. But that is all much too subtle and verbose to be ever depicted on film, except for one based only on Book IV.<P>The EE-script obviously puts the emphasis on Faramir's personal struggles with proving himself to his father, and living up to the standard set by Boromir. This is a lesser subtext in the TT-Book, where the One Ring is subtly much more of a forgotten and secretive matter of lore, anyway. The filmmakers probably wanted to bring out and stress this family dynamic for purposes of the RoTK-Film, as it is much more prominent between Denethor and Faramir, even in Book V, including but not limited to being the source of Denethor's crushing guilt.<P>In any event, the filmmakers deserve to be applauded for maintaining the essential elements from the Books, asserting many key themes and remaining largely true to their spirit. Much more could never be hoped for.<P>Frodo's encounter with the Winged Nazgûl is the one really <B>substantive</B> addition or divergence between Book-TT and EE-Film-TT, in terms of the scenes in question. There are reasons for it, like going to Osgiliath, so that they can show what in the Books we are only told about regarding the battles there. It also reflects, for better or worse the filmmaker's desire to make the most of the special effects that they've created, and their somewhat overwrought drive to dramatize or melo-dramatize everything to the unth degree.<P>This also explains the line about Faramir's life being forfeit, which does not mean he'll be executed, only that that is one possible outcome for his disobeying a standing order. This is not so different from the Book, where we are to understand that Faramir (even if within his discretion) is taking a very tremendous step in exception to the laws and commands for the security of Ithilien. But for the movie, the point is made that much more clearly, quickly and forcefully. And that's Entertainment!

[Finwe]

I really loved the end, when Faramir lets Frodo, Sam, and Gollum go, because it really shows what is more important to him, the greater good and the salvation of all Middle-earth, or proving himself to his father, and living up to the standard set by Boromir. I understand his desire to prove himself to his father, because, unfortunately, I see it happening to my younger brother. I've always been my father's favorite (although he isn't a pyromaniac!) and in my father's eyes, I can do very little wrong. That is a lot to live up to for my younger brother, and it is rather sad to see him trying to make my dad happy, and failing sometimes. <P>I also loved the scene where Eowyn "complains" to Aragorn that she's been "assigned" to go to the Glittering Caves with the rest of the women and children. That was a wonderful way of putting a quote from the book into the movie, and it really impressed upon the audience the poignancy of her situation. She had the skills to be a warrior, yet, because she was a woman, she was relegated the role of staying with the women and children. I think everyone, including Aragorn (even though he knew that there was strength inside her), greatly underestimated her strength, courage, and valor.

[Lyta_Underhill]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I understand his desire to prove himself to his father, because, unfortunately, I see it happening to my younger brother. I've always been my father's favorite (although he isn't a pyromaniac!) and in my father's eyes, I can do very little wrong. That is a lot to live up to for my younger brother, and it is rather sad to see him trying to make my dad happy, and failing sometimes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ah, <B>Finwe</B>, doesn't life like this make art resonate in ways we never expect until they are upon us? I have only just finished watching the EE last night, after finally getting in from out of town and Amazon finally delivering it...and I found a few moments in this version to open up a subtext that is important and must be balanced delicately, so delicately that I cannot yet make up my mind whether or not they overdid Denethor or not! Many people identify with one member of the Boromir-Faramir-Denethor triangle and will perhaps identify with that particular character partially for that reason. For myself, Faramir is the viewpoint character in this triangle. For that reason, his plight resonates even more, now that I've glimpsed the enigmatic Denethor (who I'm now having a love-hate debate in my mind about, because I've always found him extremely interesting!). All the juggling of "who knows what" aside, I can say, from a Faramir POV, that the pressure to please a <I>present</I> and <I>demanding</I> father is more than the pressure when one is allowed to command far away, even if it is in memory. So, good show on the inclusion of Denethor! And Faramir probably learned long ago that, no matter what he did nor how good his intentions, Denethor's affections would not be swayed. The debate would become "is it really worth trying to beat against this brick wall?" One learns to let go of the need to receive feedback that will never come and accept your position and do as much good with it as possible, as badly as it may chafe and as difficult as it is to suppress old tendencies in the "presence of". I think the mere presence of Denethor in the EE snapped Faramir into place in many aspects and gave me an insight into his struggle that it took me a few readings of LOTR to achieve, mainly because I've got the life experience to reflect upon it!<P>It is good to see the more human aspects of Faramir, although I would have liked a few breadcrumbs tossed to me to appease my uneasiness about Frodo in the Henneth Annun/Osgiliath scenes! There are a couple of lines that bring him into a sharper and more focused purpose, but I find that I wished that he had had the intelligence to realize that it was useless to deny Gollum's existence once Faramir had described him (obvious he had seen him, silly Hobbit!). And I do enjoy the initial Elven rope scenes and the lighthearted Frodo-Sam interactions in the Emyn Muil. I actually liked Frodo's "Don't touch me!" line added in , because at this point, he IS still acting with good will towards Gollum primarily out of his respect for Gandalf's words and not completely out of his own heart; this shows a bit of that struggle going on. (See, I can take the breadcrumbs and make bread sometimes!). I'll just have to relegate what I call the "pea soup" episode of Frodo at Osgiliath to some kind of outer vault though, because I can't save it in my own mind, even with the Faramir improvements. I liked the addition of the cloven horn description, but wished they had added Frodo's question of whether Faramir was trying to trap him into telling something. The dream scene with Faramir seeing Boromir in the boat was sublime, though. OK, I nitpick, don't I? Can't help it! One thing I don't mind that some do was Faramir's mentioning of Cirith Ungol. He does the same in the book and warns against it, but I found the inclusion of Gollum's explanation of the fact he must find some way, because Frodo says to take him to Mordor good. Elijah's kind of pale, "I must," at that point seemed both appropriate and inappropriate, depending on how I look at it, though. Either he is indecisive or irresolute or he is suggesting the unsaid line from the book and his infinite weariness of the Quest: "I must take the Ring to the Mountain of Doom. Gandalf said so. I don't think I shall ever get there." (don't have the quote to hand, so forgive any deviations!). Still making up my mind on that one!<P>On other notes, I must say I am absolutely thrilled with the additional Merry and Pippin scenes and the extra "Old Man Willow" nod in Fangorn! Plus, although the depiction was somewhat different than the one in my mind when I read it, the Huorns at Helm's Deep were a wonderful addition! I understand it would be hard to show them moving upon an unseen wind, definitely but undetectably. I found having them present as a "Birnham Wood marched to Dunsinane" effective and evocative of many childhood dreams and fears...nice! And, for mise-en-scene, I must say I adore the most wonderful scene of Pippin sitting with the bowl of Entdraught and the whole atmosphere of Wellinghall (if that was indeed where they were, but I can't say that, because why would a black Huorn inhabit Treebeard's very house? OK, I digress! Sorry!) This Fangorn scene was my wallpaper for ages and may be again soon! Ah, but the little addition of Pippin's dream of the barrel of pipeweed being fulfilled at Isengard was heartwarming, as well as Merry's banter about their height differences. I can only hope they compare themselves to Frodo and Sam at Cormallen properly at the end! <P>And lastly, although I enjoyed the Brego scenes and DID get the joke about the kingly name (does that make me a real LOTR nerd?), I still get irked by Aragorn's indecision regarding his intentions for Arwen. It puts her in a difficult position, in which she shows an admirable resolve. I do wonder if they are playing up the Luthien echoes, and why Aragorn didn't just sing a song of farewell to the lights of Heaven and all before he went into battle...but that's neither here nor there, I suppose! I still say "Grumpy old Elrond!" every time I see him, though. <P>I suppose this post is going on quite long now, so I'll leave off and perhaps return later!<P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta<p>[ November 22, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>but calling it crap as a statement of fact is simply not true.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Very true.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I do find it quite interesting that many people on this board seem to hold both of these, seemingly contradictory positions.<BR>1. The films should mirror the books as closely as possible. Most if not all changes made harm the films.<P>2. The best of the new scenes in the EE is the one between Faramir, Boromir and Denethor. A scene which, if memory serves, is not present in LOTR at all.<P>Given the money the theatrical editions made it is hard to say that PJ made wrong choices in regards to what he decided to include. And seeing the EE’s of both films so far, I think it superb that fans have the opportunity to receive another version that both builds on and adds to the one we have already seen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Although I don't know if the scene ever happens in LotR, the majority of it is implied in the books (if memory serves <B>me</B> correctly). I'm not sure if the 'most if not all changes made harm the film' part, I know that isn't quite the case with me. Just the larger ones...I do think there's outstanding support, but then again, it could just be Tolkien fans that are starved for a <B>real</B> version of the books on film. I know I'd end up buying RotK pretty much no matter what (how often I'd watch it, who knows...).

[peonydeepdelver]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The scene they added with Denethor should soften people's opinions towards Faramir. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>And I for one feel that Faramir has been "redeemed" in my eyes. I'm really happy they put this scene in, because me and all my friends don't think movie Faramir is evil anymore (though he is still different from the book Faramir of course).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What was that stew? It looked like fish?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm, in my opinion it looked like shrimp in cube form. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And did anyone else notice the expression on Pip's face when he finds that apple? Think back to that apple-throwing scene in Fellowship... I swear you can almost hear him thinking, "Is Strider throwing things at me again?" So cute! ^^ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I was totally thinking the same thing! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It was a funeral dirge. It wasn't supposed to be pretty. Personally I think it worked well as the kind of elegy that might be sung at a Rohirrim funeral. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly. And I don't think anyone can sing their best when they're trying to keep from crying at their cousin's funeral. I liked that scene, though it wasn't necessary for the theatrical version. But I loved how it was Rohirric (or a language similar to it).<P>I enjoyed most of the new footage and scenes, but the only thing I can think of right now that sort of rubbed me the wrong way was the pipeweed part in Flotsam and Jetsam. I don't know what I didn't like, but just something about it. :\ Maybe I'll post the reason later if I can think of it.

[Finwe]

I love the Final Tally scene between Legolas and Gimli. I love the expression on Legolas's face when he hears Gimli say, "I myself am sitting on a pretty 43!" Of course, that near castrating arrow sent me into convulsive fits of laughter, as did Gimli's reply. "He's twitching... because he's got my axe EMBEDDED IN HIS NERVOUS SYSTEM!"

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

I really enjoyed all the additional and extended scenes. There were so many things that were directly from the books and it really warmed my heart. I was thrilled to hear Sam to say his 'highest quality' line to Faramir, and Faramir's 'gardeners must be held in high honor' to Sam. I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed the theatrical version (seeing it in the theatre an excessive number of times), but some things <I>were</I> a bit choppy & incomplete. The extra scenes just tied things together nicely. I loved the bit about Sam's salt & the rope, the Huorns, the Ent draught, Treebeard saying Bombadil's lines, the 'flotsam & jetsam' scenes, and the whole Faramir/Boromir/Denethor sequence. Boromir acting like the indulgent 'big brother' and Faramir the admiring 'little brother'. When Denethor turned up in Ossgiliath, Boromir's "One moment of peace. Can he not give us that?", implying that while he might be his father's favorite, the feeling was not necessarily mutual. After multiple viewings of TTT, I had come to terms with movie-Faramir and grew to like his character...even though he was like a jigsaw puzzle with some pieces missing. The extra footage added those missing bits to show a more complete character.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Of course, that near castrating arrow sent me into convulsive fits of laughter <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>lol, Gimli better be glad that that 'pointy-eared elf-prince' is such a good aim .<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>even though he was like a jigsaw puzzle with some pieces missing. The extra footage added those missing bits to show a more complete character<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is pretty much my thoughts on the character as well, although put better than I could have .

[mark12_30]

Eowyn's lament over Theodred: LOVED it. Brilliantly acted AND sung. And while not strictly canonical it fits in beautifully with Tolkien's presentation of the character and style of Rohan.<P>Both Treebeard's "tribute" to Bombadil (so to speak) and also the removal of Arwen from Helm's Deep and filming instead her action in The Appendices, infuses me now with a sudden wrenching hope. Did they remove Saruman from ROTK because they have decided to have Wormtongue kill him after all-- perhaps on the outskirts of The Shire? And will Frodo get his opportunity to show Saruman mercy? And before Wormtongue kills him, will Saruman say that magnificent line, "You have grown, halfling... and now I must depart indebt to your mercy...."<P>It wouldn't be that hard to do. And it would redeem a great deal in my eyes. I could easily forgive PJ & co's weak early portrayal of Movie-Frodo if only they could grow him to a glimmer of Book-Frodo's strength, maturity, and generous mercy in the end.

[Quirkette]

I won't babble on at length here. I'll try not to, anyway.<P>I was mostly okay with Eowyn's funeral dirge. It sounds like it's meant to be a chant. Chants don't need to be as asthetically (sp?) pleasing as songs. But she ought to have relaxed a bit more, she seemed self-conscious.<P>I didn't like when Pippin was supposed to be speaking Entish because it sounded way too much like burping. And I thought Legolas and Gimli's scene even funnier cuz I'd recently watched that "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" British TV series DVD. I expected Legolas to exclaim "Forty-two?!!!" I'm such a nerd! <P>

[Finwe]

More scenes that I really liked were:<P><BR>(1) Eomer searching for Theodred after the Massacre at the Fords of Isen. It was a very touching scene in my opinion. <P>(2) Eowyn's funeral dirge. <P>(3) Eowyn trying to feed Aragorn some highly questionable-looking stew. It honestly looked like she was cooking the tissue-part of the animal, not the meat. Poor Aragorn! He was gentlemanly enough to choke it down and say it was good. <P>(4) When Eowyn finds out how old Aragorn really is. <P>Eowyn: You can't be eighty!!!!<BR>Aragorn: *gives her an enigmatic look* Eighty-seven.

[mark12_30]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But she ought to have relaxed a bit more, she seemed self-conscious. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Rather than self-conscious, I think Eowyn was trying to hold herself together long enough to get the lyrics out in Theodred's honor. Singing at a funeral is difficult even if the singer is distanced from the deceased. <P>I sang at a wedding in the midwest a few years back, and the father of the bride insisted that I promise to return to sing at his own funeral.<P> <P>Fortunately he seemed quite healthy at the time.<P>And yet, in the Rohirric culture it's expected that relatives sing laments and dirges over their lost ones. I can't imagine singing at the funeral of someone I grew up with and who was like a brother to me. I suspect I would disintegrate.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

Golly...fancy having to learn dirges so you're prepared when a loved one dies... <BR>I really loved Legolas' expression when he sees the Huorns. I want a screencap of that bit! And the final count bit was absolutely hilarious...as was the apple thing with Pippin glancing up.<BR>I want to watch it again now!<P>About the keeping to the book and yet the whole Denny thing...I think that would be because we want it to stay to the book, but seeing as they departed from it, the Denny scene is as good a way as any to try and redeem poor Faramir...but I am now scarred for life, because I've seen what David Wenham looked like in Moulin Rouge...

[andreadawn]

I've noticed that a few people really liked the "final count" scene but I almost fell out of my chair when Gimli said, "He's twitching 'cause he's got my axe embedded in his NERVOUS SYSTEM!". The term "nervous system" is so anachronistic to Middle Earth. It really irked me to hear that kind of dialogue in the film. Did anyone else here have a problem with that? I feel better now that I got that off my chest

[Meela]

I thought it was a bit out of place. Funny, but not the right dialogue.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> but I am now scarred for life, because I've seen what David Wenham looked like in Moulin Rouge... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you seen him in a wedding dress? That's pretty interesting...

[Finwe]

Ah, yes, indeed. It is rather, how do I put this, "scarring" to see David Wenham in a wedding dress. Or at least it was for me.<P><BR>Just about all of the expressions on Legolas's face in the last half hour of the movie had me in stitches. I mean, honestly, does the Elf have to look like he's had fifty billion face-lifts and has just seen an army of Nazgirls marching on Helm's Deep, for EVERY SINGLE SHOT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Silmiel of Imladris]

I would have to say that my favorite extended scenes would have to be the tally and the Hurons. ( I think that is the name of the trees. ) I loved the expression of Legolas's face when the trees begin eating the orcs. It was like, "Whoa, I lived in Mirkwood all my life but no one ever told me trees could do that." My favorite line from the tally scene was when Gimli said, "Fourty-two? That's good...for a pointy eared, elvish princling." Finally someone came out and said Legolas was a prince even if it was in jest. <P>Eowyn's song I didn't like...at all. I know it was a funeral but I was hoping for something less...startling. I guess what really made it awful for me was that I had the volume up on the surround sound. OUCH!

[balrogman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "tears of pain" Does that mean it was sad or that it sounded awful? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>it was pathetic

[Rose Cotton]

I always thought that Faramir's character was fine and that it fit the movie well. I think that everyone should watch the director's commentary because it explains all the changes. They're trying their best to convince the audience that the Ring is super powerfull and totally evil. If they suddenly have a character who dosn't even take a second glance at it they lose the audience's trust in the power of the Ring.<P><BR>Anyway, I think that the Reclaiming Osgilioth scene was wonderful and just confirms what I thought about Faramir. I also loved seeing Boromir again.<P>I enjoyed the Flotsom and Jetsom scen alot. I loved the Longbottom leaf reference.<P>I also thought Eowyn's song was very beautiful.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I too agree that the nervous system comment was out of place. It might have irked me if it wasn't so funny! <P>I liked Eowyn's song too. And I think that Eowyn's stew was made with squid, though Lord knows where she found it.

[Mariska Greenleaf]

I was very surprised when Eowyn started singing, it's the last thing you expect, and the first note is... well, kinda sudden and loud.<BR>But, I liked it, I thought it was strong and well done by Otto.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The term "nervous system" is so anachronistic to Middle Earth. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Who says that it was not a concept familiar to Elven healers and made known by them to a wider section of Middle-earth? <P>Of course, Tolkien would never use anachronistic expressions in his books, would he? Like “express train”, for example (or tobacco or potatoes too, for that matter).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And I think that Eowyn's stew was made with squid, though Lord knows where she found it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wasn't it undercooked meat?

[Sapphire_Flame]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Of course, that near castrating arrow sent me into convulsive fits of laughter, as did Gimli's reply. "He's twitching... because he's got my axe EMBEDDED IN HIS NERVOUS SYSTEM!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>*dies laughing* That was so funny! That's the first scene I tell my friends about when I'm talking about the EV.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I enjoyed the Flotsom and Jetsom scen alot. I loved the Longbottom leaf reference.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I thought that was great, but for one thing: it does show a connexion between the Shire and Isengard, and without the Scouring in the next one to back it up, it seems a little odd. Well done, and very <I>very</I> funny, but odd.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I was very surprised when Eowyn started singing, it's the last thing you expect, and the first note is... well, kinda sudden and loud.<BR>But, I liked it, I thought it was strong and well done by Otto.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hear hear, Mariska! <P>Abedithon le,<P>~*~Aranel~*~

[Quirkette]

Awwww, Billy Boyd is so cute. I love the expression he has when he talks about the dream he had. <P>I love more Gollum. The way Faramir's men treated him was more brutal, they hit him in his scrawny belly. I loved that Faramir made it even easier for him to decide to kill the hobbits. I loved that Sam made himself in more jeopardy when he told Gollum he should be grateful. Heck, I love Sam; I love the elven rope scene. It was one of the coolest scenes in the book. It's all good, man!

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I loved that Sam made himself in more jeopardy when he told Gollum he should be grateful.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He's actually quite a bit nicer to Gollum than he was in the books...in the books you're like, "Sam! If you wouldn't be so mean to you, maybe you'd save both of you guy's lives!" Ugh, it's <B>so</B> annoying!

[Diamond18]

Finally got around to watching the EE. I'm torn between loving the new and extended scenes, and wishing they'd had the sense to use those scenes instead of some of the ones they did! I also loved the "Sons of the Steward" scene, as it just works to improve Boromir and Faramir. Some people still think Boromir was made out to be mean and evil in FotR and this is more reinforcement that he's not that at all. I love the interaction between him and Faramir. It was nice to get to see Faramir <I>smile</I>, and play the role of little brother/unappreciated son. "Remember this day, Little Brother, today life is good." I love the fact that Boromir is simultaneously his best friend and his rival (though not of Boromir's doing) and that now that Boromir is dead, he's lost the beloved brother but still has to deal with the rival of his memory. That was one thing I loved about Faramir's situation in RotK, and I enjoy seeing it in TTT. It even, in retrospect, adds to Boromir's death scene. I remember that when I read the book and got to the parts with Denethor and Faramir, it changed my perception of his character and made subsequent readings of his death more emotional. His death in the movie is plenty poignant as is, of course, but it's still very good to add on the events that led up to it.<P>However, the scene does not quite mesh with the Council of Elrond in FotR. Then, Boromir talks about the dream that led him to Rivendell, yet in TTT it seems as if it's nothing but Denethor's idea based on rumors. But technical details don't bother my that much, as a viewer, I still appreciate the characterization in the scene.<P>I recall that the first time I saw the Theatrical version, around the part where the camera shows Faramir sitting by himself looking pensive, I thought "Where's the flashback? Where??" It just begged for some kind of explanation what he was thinking about, and I'm glad to have it now, though it irks me that they left it out to begin with. If you're going to bother giving Faramir all this indesciveness and baggage, you might as well explain why!<P>Of course I love any and all added scenes with Merry and Pippin. <P>And I thought Éowyn's funeral song was quite well done. Fitting. This isn't an episode of American Idol.