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Old 10-31-2006, 10:59 AM   #601
Child of the 7th Age
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The crazy things people will do.....



This one's a little strange! Outrage as J. R. R. Tolkien's Pipe and Teeth Appear on e-bay. At least we can definitively say this is a joke. Click on the other links on this website, and you'll see some announcements that are even whackier than this one.
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Old 11-11-2006, 03:55 PM   #602
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White-Hand Greetings, fellow Barrow-Old-timers !

Got a nice birthday greeting from the 'Downs, so I figured I'd stop in and say hello.

Three years ago today my Hobbit self came of age, if you take my meaning...ah, good times...

Going out for an early dinner, soon. Have a lovely rest of your Veteran's day, all!
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Old 11-18-2006, 05:39 PM   #603
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Ah, ok, here's where it's happening. I went and posted on the archived version of this - dementia settling in, I suppose.

Anyway, I guess I fall in the 'of age' category, although it's my nature to procrastinate and do everything late, from being born at 42 weeks to finishing college at 29 (if I do manage that, I still have a year to go.)

I promise I won't speak again until I've read the thread and have something relevant to say.
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Old 11-19-2006, 06:23 AM   #604
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Relevant? Who said anything about Relevant? As long as it's TOlkienish, of course.

Went to Stop & Shop a couple of days ago and got some amused looks, because my 7-year old was wearing his elvish tunic and cloak (tunic home-made, cloak by Raefindel.) He has almost-white hair. Dunno if there are any elves that classified as towheads, but folks notice anyway.
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Old 01-30-2007, 01:44 AM   #605
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Slipping in for an ale & a sit down

Hello Old Downers!

Like Samwise, it occurred to me that I've been away for quite a long while -- far too long! This is always the first thread I check on the Downs, just to see who's about. I do believe I'll settle into a comfy chair and see if I can't rustle up some proper 1420 to drink while I look around.

Welcome to the thread, Rikae! Glad you found it.

Hmmm, what are the young folks in Chapter-by-Chapter up to these days?......
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:50 AM   #606
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Nice to have you looking in, Alph! Yes, those young folks are plowing their way through the Silmarillion now; it's strenuous just to read, and would be much more so to take an active part!
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:42 AM   #607
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Thanks for the welcome back, Esty !

I saw the 'Silm' threads in Chapter-by-Chapter and look forward to reading them. I found this book a hard read also, probably because it was put together by Christopher Tolkien after his father's death. Parts of The Silmarillion seem remote to me, not chronologically, but as in being harder to relate to. Had Tolkien ever been able to complete stories in his lifetime, I think I would find the book more engrossing. As important as the stories (or story?) of the Legendarium are, Tolkien, when he knew he was writing for publication at least, gave his readers well-developed characters to carry the story along and lots of detail to fire the imagination.

I seem to have gone off on a tangent there more suited to the Books -- whoops!

<Pours another ale and wanders off to the Books, with perhaps a side trip to Mirth>
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:20 AM   #608
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Another hobbit domicile....

I rather like this one.
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Old 03-18-2007, 08:09 AM   #609
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That is gorgeous, Sharon! Thanks for sharing. I'd actually love to live in a cottage like that - and since this clubhouse is wholly imaginary, can't we just imagine that this is what it looks like?!

*pulls her rocking chair closer to the lovely fireplace*
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Old 03-18-2007, 10:01 AM   #610
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Tolkien roll out the barrow

It is a beautifully constructed work and what a lovely idea to imagine it home to our nook of the Barrow! I am quite happy to consider a chair in that back room, browsing through those manuscripts. Oh to find Tolkien's journal or personal diary!

I have to hope, though, that this cottage has an excellent security system, as its unique style must draw attention to itself (unless it be hidden in the middle of the owner's property) as does the magazine article. Taunton Press is well know for its quality magazines. I would hope that no light-fingered sorts peruse its pages.
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Old 03-18-2007, 04:22 PM   #611
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Nice, indeed.

But are there people around here who could actually afford that? I mean in today's society both being on the edge or having a decent handcraft both pay too much for the common folks...

With state/community salaries you can just try to put up with your block of flats (rented) and not to think about these things.
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Old 03-18-2007, 04:55 PM   #612
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“I came back my client and said, ‘I’m not going to make this look like Hollywood,’” Archer recalled,
...instead he made it look like a fake stone and concrete Disneyland ticket booth.


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Old 03-18-2007, 05:23 PM   #613
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The site was critical too—and Archer found the perfect one a short walk away from his client’s main house, where an 18th-century dry-laid wall ran through the property. “I thought, wouldn’t it be wonderful to build the structure into the wall?”

Not only did the wall anchor the cottage, but stones from another section were used in the cottages construction. “It literally grew out of the site,” Archer said.
So he dismantled part of an EIGHTEENTH CENTURY wall, something that a craftsman had built over two hundred years ago to knock up this mock tudor monstrosity?

I suppose its fortunate there wasn't an 18th Century cottage on the property, or I expect that stones from that would have been used in the construction too....

Reminds me of a pub in a 1970's sitcom, complete with stone cladding, plastic beams & Terry Scott leaning on the bar in his aran sweater, quaffing Watney's Red Barrel from a pewter tankard ...
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Old 03-18-2007, 07:26 PM   #614
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Boo Radley has just left Hobbiton.
Just thought I'd drop by and say "Hi".
Announcements and Obituaries???
Egad, how old are some of you, eh?
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Old 03-19-2007, 03:17 AM   #615
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...instead he made it look like a fake stone and concrete Disneyland ticket booth.
Appears I've stirred up some fuss and feathers with my casually thown out link.

Ah.... But frankly, there are times in life when a Disneyland ticket booth may be the best thing you've got going. Lal - you and davem are fortunate to have the real thing not too far from your doorstep.....genuine thatch, and wattle and daub....certainly better than what this builder has done. Some of us are not so lucky. Certainly, folk in Pennsylvania do not have access to such wonders. (You can find some great Amish barns still standing yonder--the "real thing" by local standards, but if your heart beats to another drum you've got problems.) And from my time living in that neck of the woods and knowing the work of local historical/restoration groups, my guess is that the 18th century wall was already disintegrating into a pile of barely usable rubble or was about to be obliterated by another builder. Local restoration is my thing. Right now I'm in one group that's battling to save one of the oldest theaters in the southwest, and another that's trying to uncover and restore cottages of the earliest freedmen who settled in Houston following the civil war. Unfortunately, neither group is having great success. A lone wall would probably find the going even tougher.

Kitschy this domicile may be, but it's got to be better than the same old, same old stuff that lines the streets of my own blah urban neighborhood. No wattle and daub in sight. No forays into modernism either. Very dull and conforming. For the past few days, our family's been dealing with some tough, tough decisons about a family member who can no longer live on her own. I could frankly use an hour or two sitting in that library and letting my brain unbend. It's got to be better than my cluttered kitchen table!

Nogrod -- As to the pricetag attached....of course you're right. My dad was a labor organizer; my grandfather a miner. I have definite sympathies in that direction. But neither of us can truly change the ways of the world or people's ultimate priorities. So I will keep poking about on the internet and searching out such architectural oddities. Whoever built that thing at least had to have one spark alive in his/her heart, not to be content with the "usual".

And now....another link. A soothing link with music, which will hopefully be an improvement over my last offering. Ted Nasmith has recently come out with a CD of Tolkien inspired music. Here's a sample of the thing concerning Queen Beruthiel: ADC There's also info on this in Nasmith's website. Just scroll down to The Hidden Door CD,

****************

Boo,

The first time I saw you on the site, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your name! I am a great admirer of Scout and Boo.

As to how ancient we are on this site and in this forum....well, I suppose that varies from one person to the next. I was a teenager in the early to mid-sixties when I first read Tolkien. I've been reading and collecting ever since in between the normal joys and headaches of life. I'm not sure if that qualifies me for an obituary in your eyes!
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:19 AM   #616
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I suppose we are lucky here, with 17-18th century cottages being fairly commonplace not too many miles away in Derbyshire - & axon churches are not too rare either - there was one in the village where I was born. There's even a Norman castle (Conisborough, which served as Sir Walter Scott's inspiration for Ivanhoe, not 20 miles away).

As to Ted Naismith, I've heard him perform some of his songs at Oxonmoot a few times (usually duetting with the dreaded Alex Lewis!).
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:27 AM   #617
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Actually ... apart from the gingery wood which I am phobic about, I rather like this one .... it looks rather like Tolkien's own pictures and there is an ancient tradition or reusing stone from disused walls ....which is why Hadrian's is incomplete ... also it is using proper materials .and proper craftsmen... It just needs weathering..... and that door painted green....and a few dwarf hood hanging in the hall.. and clutter ..far too tidy for a hobbit hole

AS for the socio-economic things ...well in a basically capitalist society as exists here and the states there are going to be people who are scraping by and those who have money for such follies .... but I would rather the rich spent their money on providing employment for true craftspeople than spent just as much if not more on some fibreglass floating-gin-palace yacht.

At least when they have lost thier money the result will be left for us plebs to enjoy..... like these
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:48 AM   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age
Boo,

The first time I saw you on the site, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your name! I am a great admirer of Scout and Boo.

As to how ancient we are on this site and in this forum....well, I suppose that varies from one person to the next. I was a teenager in the early to mid-sixties when I first read Tolkien. I've been reading and collecting ever since in between the normal joys and headaches of life. I'm not sure if that qualifies me for an obituary in your eyes!
Not quite, for we are of about an age, I'm thinking.
I discovered Tolkien back in 1970, I believe. The Fellowship was checked out of the library, so I started with the Two towers.
Not the best start.
So, I took that back and waited for Fellowship to be returned, checked it out and have never looked back.
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:15 PM   #619
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Actually ... apart from the gingery wood which I am phobic about, I rather like this one .... it looks rather like Tolkien's own pictures and there is an ancient tradition or reusing stone from disused walls ....which is why Hadrian's is incomplete ... also it is using proper materials .and proper craftsmen... It just needs weathering..... and that door painted green....and a few dwarf hood hanging in the hall.. and clutter ..far too tidy for a hobbit hole
Still find it bland & fake. Doesn't inspire me & the thought of living there gives me the heebie-jeebies. It actually strikes me as a 'mockery' of Tolkien's world, a secondary world which exists only in the mind.

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We need a word for this elvish craft, but all the words that have been applied to it have been blurred and confused with other things. Magic is ready to hand, and I have used it above (p. 39), but I should not have done so: Magic should be reserved for the operations of the Magician. Art is the human process that produces by the way (it is not its only or ultimate object) Secondary Belief. Art of the same sort, if more skilled and effortless, the elves can also use, or so the reports seem to show; but the more potent and specially elvish craft I will, for lack of a less debatable word, call Enchantment. Enchantment produces a Secondary World into which both designer and spectator can enter, to the satisfaction of their senses while they are inside; but in its purity it is artistic in desire and purpose. Magic produces, or pretends to produce, an alteration in the Primary World. It does not matter by whom it is said to be practised, fay or mortal, it remains distinct from the other two; it is not an art but a technique; its desire is power in this world, domination of things and wills. To the elvish craft, Enchantment, Fantasy aspires, and when it is successful of all forms of human art most nearly approaches. At the heart of many man-made stories of the elves lies, open or concealed, pure or alloyed, the desire for a living, realized sub-creative art, which (however much it may outwardly resemble it) is inwardly wholly different from the greed for self-centred power which is the mark of the mere Magician. Of this desire the elves, in their better (but still perilous) part, are largely made; and it is from them that we may learn what is the central desire and aspiration of human Fantasy—even if the elves are, all the more in so far as they are, only a product of Fantasy itself. That creative desire is only cheated by counterfeits, whether the innocent but clumsy devices of the human dramatist, or the malevolent frauds of the magicians. In this world it is for men unsatisfiable, and so imperishable. Uncorrupted, it does not seek delusion nor bewitchment and domination; it seeks shared enrichment, partners in making and delight, not slaves. (OFS)
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:25 PM   #620
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Chacun a son flue....

Well it seems to have been done in the spirit of hommage ....as are the mockeries of Tolkien's world that I indulge in when I RPG ..... And it is far superior to just about all tolkien-inspired "art"....
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:46 PM   #621
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Well it seems to have been done in the spirit of hommage ....as are the mockeries of Tolkien's world that I indulge in when I RPG ..... And it is far superior to just about all tolkien-inspired "art"....
I'd say RPG's are still 'art' in the sense that Tolkien implies, because they remain 'imaginary' (part of a 'secondary world').

Of course, its a Folly. I still don't see the point of making the thing & it seems it exists because someone has more money than they know what to do with.....
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:02 PM   #622
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The world would be a duller place without such things .... My grief for the tsars is controllable but I am not sorry that Faberge eggs exist, or cathedrals for that matter ...... My tastes are perhaps rather more baroque than this hobbit wendy house, but I would not live in a totally Benthamite world....
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:22 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Mithalwen
The world would be a duller place without such things .... My grief for the tsars is controllable but I am not sorry that Faberge eggs exist, or cathedrals for that matter ...... My tastes are perhaps rather more baroque than this hobbit wendy house, but I would not live in a totally Benthamite world....
Well, Cathedrals I agree with. The 18th century wall at least wasn't tacky.... Actually I have a soft spot for some follies. Hoober Stand & Stainborough Castle are lovely &, in the case of Hoober Stand, quite imposing, but I find this 'Hobbity' thing a bit of a white elephant.
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Old 03-19-2007, 04:11 PM   #624
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Sorry I'll hold my hands up and admit to being an architecture snob. I just do not like kitschy designs like that. I find it sad that in the States so many people don't recognise just how fabulous their vernacular achitecture is - the clapboard houses, brownstones, roadside diners, Miami Beach art deco, the longhouses stretching back from the street etc. One of the very best things about watching Hollywood films is to see those buildings. There's no need to go 'mock tudor' with all of that available.

And just one misplaced design can ruin a whole neighbourhood - I know that that bulding would look wholly out of place just about anywhere in the UK. It's nothing like 'the real thing' sadly - it's too 'fancy'.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:46 PM   #625
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A poorly designed house is not architecture... it is orc-itecture.

I'm sorry... I shall now return to my village in shame...
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:19 PM   #626
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Child, I deeply respect your efforts to bring some kind of communal understanding to these very different responses to the Pennsylvania Hobbit Hole.

If I may make a few observations on the very different responses offered here, it is first to suggest--perhaps I should say remind, for those who remember the canonicity thread--that we all responsdto art, architecture, literature, out of our own personal histories and experiences. And that none of those experiences are invalid or wrong.

I find it very interesting that we have on this thread several Brits for whom the style and architecture of this library represents--if I may be allowed the option of interpretive paraphrase--a tawdry approximation, even imitation, of cottage styles which still exist in the Sceptred Isle (a place which I recall Squatter once referring to as the Sceptic Isle--that may be neither here nor there, but simply an example of the allusive nature of memory).

We also have some North Americans who understand that cottage as an imitation, as an imaginative attempt to depict something which may not exist on the North American continent.

Then we also have several other Europeans who immediately perceive the very salient class factors of the article, that the magazine is targeted at a certain market, that the architects and builders work for a particular socio-economic-cultural status in the US.

It appears we have here a prime example of an art which is full of contradictory aims and status. In other words, it is full of problematics--for those who savour such a theoretical tone.

There are several questions we can ask ourselves about this American hobbit hole.

First, how do the class and experience and intentions of the owner of the property and the architects and builders relate to Tolkien? Are they attempting to create something in their imagination that reflects their own personal imagination of Middle-earth or are they attempting to reproduce something Tolkien could have wanted?

Second, how does our experience of our world, our class and culture, reflect in our understanding of Tolkien?

Third, it is patently absurd to think that air conditioning (a critical feature for libraries of conservation, which this might be?) and heat radiant floors and electricity reflect the actual kinds of conditions of hobbit holes in the Third Age or earlier. So, how does one proceed? What possibilities were available to the architects as they met their clients?

Does one attempt an actual historical recreation, something which might closely ressemble a barrow for the dead, but intended for the living--which is how I sometimes think of hobbit holes--or something which uses the available technologies to recreate what we (based obviously in this case on pre-existing 20th C models of hobbit holes) think might be an imaginative recreation of the idea? Are architects restricted to historical veracity and simulacra or are they free to sub-create for themselves?

Pioneers to the Canadian prairies in the 19C dug dwellings out of hills and dirt to survive their first terrible experience of winter on the North American prairie. They did not have the luxury of stone pillars and roofs--as apparently existed in English barrows--but simply dug into the soil and set up small fireplaces with vents. This is much closer to what I think Tolkien might have thought of when he considered "in a hole live a hobbit." Yet even his Shire had varieties of social status. How to reflect that?

We are all of us allowed our chance to interpret and imagine a version of "in a hole lived a hobbit" in our 21st C world. Is it terribly wrong if that imagination does not suit or fit or satisfy the imagintion of those closer to Tolkien's own culture, class and society? Who is to say that imagination must be bound to Squatter's sceptic isle?

What I find infinitely fascinating about the article is that there apparently is a wealthy collector of Tolkien manuscripts who has decided to store his collection on his own private property rather than loan them to an academic institution, as is the general trend of such things these days in NA.

He--or she--isn't sharing.
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:34 PM   #627
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Fascinating stuff, Bęthberry. I heartily concur with your view that there are no invalid or wrong responses here. We're not talking about a life and death struggle or "good versus evil" but merely considering how people view the world through different prisms of belief and experience and the fact that these prisms invariably shape their response to artistic creations, whether we're discussing houses or poetry.

When I casually put up that link, I was thinking it might be pleasant to wile away a few hours inside the library of that house. I do find the place pleasant enough for that purpose. Yet my initial thoughts were really no deeper than that. I wasn't considering purchasing the property nor was I putting forward a carefully thought out statement of what my "ideal" hobbit hole would be. Still, the latter is worthy of consideration. I found one of the questions you raised especially intriguing in this regard:

Quote:
Second, how does our experience of our world, our class and culture, reflect in our understanding of Tolkien?
While it's possible to consider this question in a much wider sense, I'll restrict myself to the vexing issue of hobbit holes that seems to have captured this particular thread.

My "ideal" hobbit hole would indeed reflect many personal elements of "class and culture". Let me explain. I first read LotR in the sixties when I was a student at university. My whole response to the book was very influenced by the fact that I saw myself as a counter culture person. (I certainly wasn't unique in that respect.) I was deeply involved in the ecology movement along with my friends; many of us were living in communes....wearing long peasant skirts, baking bread, and rejecting at least certain aspects of our upbringing. (Yeah, I was one of those crazy American kids whom Tolkien found good hearted but definitely misguided.) To this day, those views shape my image of middle-earth, at least on an emotional level.

For that reason, the hobbits I envision are invariably connected with the earth. A hobbit should have his feet planted in the soil, and his house should reflect that.....never mind that Tolkien said only a minority of hobbits lived in burrows by the latter part of the Third Age.

Given my working class roots, I think I would find even Bag-end a bit too uppity. The place has to be fairly small and cluttered if I'm going to feel safe and comfortable. Plus, I would probably throw in a pinch of left-leaning politics and political correctness. Voila.....I get a burrow that looks something like this: house in Pembroke.

This particular family has built its hobbit home almost completely out of natural materials. The walls are made of stone and mud, water enters the house by gravity from a nearby spring and any non-natural things like windows and plumbing were picked up in rubbish piles. I'm not going to tell you I live like that in real life, but that is the way my heart would lean.

It's quite clear that my hobbits and hobbit holes are not identical with Tolkien's . I have little contact with farming or farmers, which is certainly part of what he put into his hobbits, probably a reflection of certain aspects of his childhood. And though I enjoy Tolkien's Edwardian overlay on the Shire, that is personally "foreign" to me.

So yes, you're right. What I bring to the story has an enormous impact on how I perceive the characters and even how I would build a hobbit hole, if I ever got around to constructing one.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:48 AM   #628
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Hmm this may be characteristically inconsistent but while I loathed the Bend houses and similarly mock tudor, mock georgian developments in the UK reproduction furniture etc - I love antiques but I also like good contemporary design - I can accept this little hobbit hole as a wendy house, whimsy, a modern folly. If I had the money and the land I'd build one of those wonderful treehouses but each to their own.. . this is indulging the fancy not a realistic proposition of a way to live... it is a private thing not a development for sale. It is more a fetish than a lifestyle choice...

If you wanted the latter and a hobbit spirit then there are some fantastic eco houses with modern interiors and grass rooves that might suit.. the Aussies have done this even for their parliament building..echoing hte miners "humpy" perhaps...
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:59 AM   #629
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I'm not saying if you like it then you are wrong. I'm merely saying: "Bleurgh! I don't like it."



Or if I must intellectualise my response, what I think is....the interior and exterior do not match. The exterior is far too fanciful and Disney-esque with the oversized chimney stack out of proportion with the building and the 'flipped edges' of the roof looking contrived. The 'extension' also appears contrived as it is finished in an identical fashion to the main part of the structure where it ought to be slightly different to get any authenticity. The stonework is laid like crazy paving giving a '1970s bungalow finish' to the exterior. The ceramic tiles used around the windows give yet another 'feel' - of Mexicana. The interior is much better finished, but the lofty roof gives the feel of being in a barn conversion, which is not in sympathy with the 'cosiness' implied by the exterior. The arched ante-room library is nicely done but as a whole the building is a bit messy, a confusion of 1970s designer style, modern gothic-ry and Disney twee.

But yeah. It's a bit sickly for me.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:39 AM   #630
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Childe Sharon, I enjoyed looking at the second burrow to which you linked! How interesting to read about the thoughts of the persons involved and see the very hobbitish structure. I find it very attractive on the one hand - on the other, I wouldn't want to actually live in a hole. Without straight-sided surfaces, where would I hang paintings and above all, my patchwork wall hangings?! There might be some who would see that as an advantage - quilters' families have been known to complain that they feel as if they're living in a padded cell, albeit a very cheerful one!

Both structures are variations on the theme of Arts and Crafts, and as such neither is very far from Tolkien's heart - and mine. And the straight-sided "boxes" in which most of us live can be made artistic in whichever way we prefer. That's sub-creativity!

At any rate, I'm very much enjoying the lively discussion to which we geezers have roused ourselves - more, please!
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Old 03-20-2007, 09:55 AM   #631
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It is more a fetish than a lifestyle choice...
Quote:
"Bleurgh! I don't like it."
It is indeed a good thing that I don't make my living as a realtor, since I would now be out on the streets begging for subsistence scraps. I will try to round up more hobbit holes late tonight on the net, and see if they meet with anyone's approval.

Esty - It is intriguing to me to see how much time, effort, and money people put into this construction effort. How extraordinary that we work so hard to "get it right", when in a very real sense there really is no "right" since hobbits and burrows are a construct out of the author's head. And yet somehow we seem to think that there is a "real" hobbit hole floating somewhere out there in space and we judge things against our view of that Platonic (or Tolkienic) ideal.

Somehow I think this is connected with the strange sensation that some of us have that, when we read LotR, we are somehow "going home". Over the years, I've heard so many people express their feelings in those terms. So some of us seem to want to create a physical embodiment of that feeling.

Mithalwen --

A treehouse? Erg....I would truly feel uncomfortable no matter how lovely or artistic the structure would be.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:23 AM   #632
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Perhaps by "treehouse" Mithalwen means one of those lovely constructions in Lothlorien called a telain or flet? I've always had difficulty imagining them because I have to work hard to get Disney's Swiss Family Robinson's treehouse out of my mind.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:46 AM   #633
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Yeah.
For some reason I don't think the Elves had baby oliphant powered elevators.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:58 AM   #634
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Oh dear, now I have Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" in my head - and that's not Tolkienish music at all!!
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:01 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar
Oh dear, now I have Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" in my head - and that's not Tolkienish music at all!!

Thank you very much... now I have it in MY head, too!
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:44 AM   #636
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Oh I would need something more substantial than Haldir's flet to stop me having a very Sam-like vertiginous feelings ... so not quite the Alnwick Castle type thing but certainly a house in a tree .....ideally I'd live in Rivendell of course but idyllic hidden valleys are rare in these parts
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:57 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by Bęthberry
What I find infinitely fascinating about the article is that there apparently is a wealthy collector of Tolkien manuscripts who has decided to store his collection on his own private property rather than loan them to an academic institution, as is the general trend of such things these days in NA.

He--or she--isn't sharing.
I have a friend in the Tolkien Society who owns virtually everything Tolkien ever published (including the rare early stuff like Songs for the Philologists), along with some of the books from his library, though he isn't 'wealthy'. I think his intention is to donate them to the Tolkien Society library when he dies - though he may simply arrange for some to go to second hand bookshops - which is where he got many of the items himself.

Collecting such things isn't something I've gone in for, though its not difficult (or that expensive apparently) to get hold of stuff if you know where to look. I wonder what the 'manuscripts' actually consist of? As far as I'm aware CT owns all the M-e stuff apart from the stuff he sold to Marquette.

Some Tolkien 'artifacts' are not as valuable as people think though. As Ive noted elsewhere I saw a book once owned by Michael Tolkien on ebay for Ł300, whereas I picked up the six volume set of Gibbon Tolkien gave to Michael for Ł100 just last year & I know the dealer had quite a few other books of Michael's as he bought his entire library, so if anyone wants to own something with a (tenuous) Tolkien link it won't break the bank. And you can be a bit cunning - people reckon a 'First Edition' of LotR will break the bank but apparently the (pirated) Ace Books edition can be picked up quite cheaply if you just want the first ed. text.

It would be interesting to know whether the collection is worth the money spent on housing it....
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:01 PM   #638
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It would be interesting to know whether the collection is worth the money spent on housing it....
davem,

That's probably true, if you're judging the worth of a collection in terms of dollars. Some people who collect are in it for financial reasons, but for others the money really has little bearing. If someone is crazy enough to build an odd structure like this (whether you like the thing or not....it's definitely out of the ordinary), they must be doing this for reasons other than pure monetary worth. Frankly, a cottage of that type does not look very secure (unless it's part of a large gated estate with guards prowling at the entrance and along the walls). If the goal was to provide a secure environment to protect a valuable financial investment, that's probably not the setting a person would choose, even if they had boatloads of money at their disposal. Someone has to be a bit dotty...in love with the books themselves and what they represent....to build such a strange sanctuary for them.

I personally don't have any problems with a collector sitting on his books and keeping them in the private domain. Most books have multiple copies and it's generally true that a special collections somewhere does own a copy. Even with an extremely rare item like Philologists, there are at least a few other copies(13?) floating around. What does bother me is when someone sits on historical manuscripts....a source that is unique. I am surprised at how often Tolkien letters turn up on ebay. Every time I see one, I make a copy of the text. Most are nothing special, but there have been some, which throw light on some question or problem. I hate to see those things gobbled up dropping off the public map.
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:01 PM   #639
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Yes, the value of a collection lies always in the eye of the collector first and then of course in those of any he can persuade to his obsession.

I had gathered from the article that the Tolkieniana under discussion was in fact manuscripts, which I had thought a little odd as I had assumed that all the important stuff with either with CT or at Marquette.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Silber, Inside the Hobbit House
Asked to design a fitting repository for a client’s valuable collection of J.R.R. Tolkien manuscripts and artifacts, architect Peter Archer went to the source—the fantasy novels that describe the abodes of the diminutive Hobbits.
It could all be journalistic hyberbole, but I would hope it isn't artifacts such as the teeth and pipe Childe found earlier for sale on eBay (see her post near the top of this page). That could be a great ironic laugh, though--folly indeed.

I'm going to keep an eye out on youTube for a video of Mancini's "Baby Elephant Walk" put to some screen captures of orcs.
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Old 03-20-2007, 05:04 PM   #640
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It could all be journalistic hyberbole, but I would hope it isn't artifacts such as the teeth and pipe Childe found earlier for sale on eBay (see her post near the top of this page). That could be a great ironic laugh, though--folly indeed.
Sorry, I know I shouldn't do this but over on the Plaza there's a thread about Tolkien's teeth. It started with a quote from Tolkien in an interview:

Quote:
I"m afarid I really must go now...I have an appointment with my dentist. My mouth has shrunk, you see, so my false teeth no longer fit and are inclined to drop down unexpectedly, with a portcullis -like effect.'
& one of the posters added an anecdote:

Quote:
But this bit about the portcullis finally confirms for me that my friend's older borother, who read English at Oxford, was probably telling the exact truth when he reported that on his first attendance at Tolkien's Beowulf lecture, when they were all so excited that this famous Prof was going to lecture to them, Tolkien began to read the poem but on the declamatory Hwaet! - his teeth fell out.
(Actually, I don't feel so bad about this as in an old thread over there someone linked to a post of Child's over here....)
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