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Old 05-16-2007, 12:45 PM   #121
Aganzir
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And she was so concerned about her possible widowhood.

Quite an easy target for the wolves, as she was considered innocent by most. I doubt I can think of anything but that she was killed because of her innocentishness, as she did not say anything particularly special or accuse anyone with too determined way. Of course, she was the first to vote for Legate etc., but I can make of that out just as much as I can of too many other things, which is nothing.

Rikae, Sixth should be removed from the list of the living?

edit: xed with Volo and Shasta, whose explanation of voting for Legate I'd like to hear.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:48 PM   #122
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Thinking out loud.

Hello Shasta!


First of all, I'd like to send attention to Boromir, who, from my perspective, acted rather un-Boromirish... (And I'm not refering to Denetorish either.)

First post

Second post

He might have disguised his vote for Ang as a joke, but it sticks out pretty badly. And voting for Ang without reason is a bit too risky to be wise.

I'm actually thinking of a Boro-Ang figure here. Don't worry, I'll probably vote Boro of the two.


EDIT: Xd with Aganzir. Whose explanations to life, the universe and everything I'd like to hear. But start out with Boromir.
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Old 05-16-2007, 12:52 PM   #123
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So here it goes - another death. Mithalwen! And that's the second innocent. Can you now see the wisdom of Orthanc? Didn't I tell you Six was innocent? If you even heeded my advice, of the Wisest of the Order, we might yet have Six among us, and possibly one wolf down.

Let us not think that a yesterday's Survivor husband might not participate on a plot to kill his wife. It's a wife just in role, anyway. I am no fool, and I do not trust you, Anguirel. They do not stand openly on my stairs, but I know where the wild wolf-demons are lurking, at your command.

But come now. I think that we must seek first, who might have had interests in killing Mithalwen. I'm going to gaze to my Palantír and then I'll hopefully come back with some info on that.

EDIT: x-ed with everyone. Woo-hoo, Shasta, what was that supposed to be? I just saw it in the corner of my eye, have to read your post...
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:05 PM   #124
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Mithalwen:

suspected by: Mac

thought innocent by: Lommy, Volo, Kath, Aganzir

not sure: SPM, Rune

no declaration (I'm leaving out people who rarely posted): Legate, Brinniel, Ang, Diamond

Standing out are, to me: Kath for praising Mith a little too much, and Rune for saying he doesn't find her suspicious, but doesn't trust her either. Am I really the only one who found her to be a little suspicious?


suspects: Mac, Legate

thought innocent: SPM, Ang

not sure: Gil

no declaration (as above): Brinniel, Lommy, Kath, Aganzir, Rune, Diamond

This part doesn't really make me smarter...


I guess Aganzir is right and Mith has been killed because she left few trails and was regarded as innocent by most.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:07 PM   #125
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Umm I don't know about Boromir.

I (am probably the only one to) fail to see why an innocent would vote for himself, even with retractable votes. It's quite unlikely that anyone else would vote for him after his little show. Thus, it might be a good way for a wolf to mislead innocents' thoughts.
Boro's second post is just explanatory, but to be honest the way he explained his vote for himself is not the most innocent I've seen.
But I'm not sure about you either, Volo, and Boro is not on the top of my suspect list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
EDIT: Xd with Aganzir. Whose explanations to life, the universe and everything I'd like to hear. But start out with Boromir.
The answer is simple: A Dwarf. But I think you already guessed it.

edit: xed with Mac
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:17 PM   #126
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On current posts:

Interesting point on Boromir, Volo. I don't know if he ever plays like that, but I would like to add that it was him who, in our last game, still spoke about need to be accusatory in order to get things running. He made impression on me of one of the active, "pioneering" types. He isn't now. His first post calls "meeegajoke" or "cobbler", but the second one, for no reason, votes Anguirel at first. Be it a wolfy start of bandwaggon (or just trying to do it) or a wolf-on-wolf "safe" vote (without knowing the consequences, we had similar things here many times before), it doesn't look much good.

Seeing Shasta has no real support for his vote, this was quite an unlucky move from you, Shasta: such a thing really raises alarm. When I thought about it however, it comes to me that you might be in press to not be modkilled and that you might have somehow gained the impression that I am guilty so you just voted to save your life without possibility to dig into it deeper. However, as I said before, it's an unfortunate move and I hope you'll be around tomorrow with more "sensible" playing. Of course I'm not happy at all that you picked me of all the possibilities.

About Mith: Mith wasn't much active yesterday, but I'll still have to look at it, haven't gone through properly. However, I wouldn't be so fast to condemn it to "leaving no track". Of course the wolves likely do it that way, but if we can get at least something, it'd be good. Interesting thing is that from my experience, the Wolves are quite often the first to come and say "oh, it was made to leave no track" - and this might be even in the case that it indeed was made to leave no track.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:20 PM   #127
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voice from beyond the grave:

As I said on the admin thread, players who do not post for two days will be modkilled.
I didn't mention players who post but don't vote. Those are left to the village to deal with as it sees fit.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:44 PM   #128
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I don't have much enthusiasm for this racket anymore, to be honest. I was almost hoping Mithaladriel would be guilty - it would have been better to have been betrayed by her than to stand impotently by when she was slain. It will be a sadder and less amusing game without her, but I suppose I'd better make a lacklustre attempt at vengeance.

A grim affair. I shall return in the morn, but meanwhile I have a little choice advice to the White Wizard. You dislike my style, it is clear, thinking it strange...but that does not necessarily mean either that it is strange in my terms (it really isn't, not that I'd care if it was), nor that I am necessarily guilty or innocent.

I urge you to keep an open mind and follow evidence, not taste. For myself I think both you and Volo are pompous rather than guilty...which means my whole performance yesterday was pretty off the rails.

I think Sauce is innocent due to the way he acted last night, showing intelligence and adaptability, at least from my point of view. I'd like to hear more from Diamond, largely as it would brighten things up...

I am rather concerned about Aganzir. His widowhood quip looks like a potential wolf-gloat. You'd say, no wolf would be foolish enough to wolf-gloat, but in the past when guilty I've often done it, enjoyed it and sometimes got away with it...part of the thrill of the chase.

My poor dear Lady. Namarie.
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:55 PM   #129
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More thoughts.

Having reread Mac, I see an innocent or a careful wolf. I'm inclined to believe him innocent for now as the carefulness is a bit too careful for a wolf... (Can't see bluffs.)

About Brinniel I can't say anything except that she's eccentric. A good reason not to vote her then, or then I just don't want her to die young, again. Although her vote is a bit wierd, I'll let it pass, for now.

Lommy. Nah, I don't have anything to say... But I do hope you'll be online toDay *cough*there're plenty of places with a net*cough*.

So far so empty... Continuing investigation.


EDIT: Xd with Ang. Good point about Aganzir, though maybe too early pointed out!
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Old 05-16-2007, 01:58 PM   #130
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Very sorry to see Mithalwen go. Anyone else need a stiff drink? I have a fine Scottish Malt here, if anyone’s interested.

I would agree with the conclusions of most that she was killed because she leaves a relatively cold trail and was regarded largely without much suspicion. She is also a dangerous adversary for the Wolves, as she has a flair for deduction. My first thought was that Anguirel, of all those present, would be the least likely to have chosen her to die as they were playing off each other well. But he can be a devious fellow, has a good grasp of tactics and bluffery and knows Mith’s werewolfing ways and skills very well.

Of course, the abiding aim of the Wolves in their Nightly kills is to find the Seer while he or she yet lives. Yet I can see nothing in her posts that might have made the Wolves think her the Seer.

Her main suspects appear to have been Legate (who she voted for) and Mac (for his comments about bantering) both of whom she described as ‘scratchy’. She was also suspicious of Gil, Shasta and Xyzzy, for contributing little more than brief ‘in-character’ posts. She appears to have been relatively comfortable with Ang (as she was keen not to see him lynched) and me (“seems OK so far”). But she did not outline any really firm conclusions.

And so to the voting. My traditional modus operandi is to look for ‘safe’ votes, although this is of slightly less use when the votes are retractable. Still, it’s worth a look. The safest vote looks to me to have been that cast by Kath, since Rune was not under particularly heavy suspicion at that time. Di’s vote for Gil might be considered safe, but has been explained. Rune’s vote for Volo was perhaps less safe as, prior to his revelation, it looked like Volo might attract a few votes.

The non-voters are of course suspicious by virtue of their lack of vote, but none contributed much, if anything, yesterDay, so I would like to hear more from them.

Other than that, all the votes were, I think, cast for Sixth, Anguirel and Legate.

Sixth voters: Me, Lommy, Mac, Volo and Anguirel

I wouldn’t regard Lommy’s vote as particularly safe, as early suspicion was already gathering around Sixth. It might be regarded as an attempt to grease a bandwaggon against an innocent, although I can understand why she thought him the most suspicious at that stage, as I did too. Of course, I realise that the same points apply broadly to my own vote, but I know that it was cast innocently. Since I am accepting Volo’s claim for now, and Anguirel was voting to save himself, I do not regard either of those votes as particularly suspicious. Which leaves Mac’s vote. This was effectively the one which pushed Sixth into pole position as the “not Anguirel” candidate, rather than Legate. As such, I regard it as the most suspicious of the Sixth votes.

Legate voters: Mith, Aganzir, Brinniel

Difficult to draw any conclusions from these. Mith, obviously, was innocent. All were cast in the last minute flurry, when cross-posting is a danger. Brin’s late vote, however, is curious as it was cast at a time, I think, when Sixth was leading in the votes, and so risked creating a last minute tie.

Anguirel voters: Boro, Sixth, Legate

I don’t regard Boro’s vote as particularly safe, as Ang was already attracting suspicion, and it is in itself suspicious by virtue of being wholly unexplained. Legate, I guess, was voting to save himself, even though he had only one vote at the time, and was in line with his stated suspicions.

So, on the basis of this, I would regard the votes of Kath, Mac and Brinniel as the most suspicious, although it does not follow necessarily from a suspicious vote that the voter is a Wolf. Also, I am wary that there may well be a Wolf among the non-voters.

I do, however, remain suspicious of Legate, for the reasons stated yesterDay. I would have been quite willing to vote for him yesterDay, had he gained more votes earlier as, if anything, I regarded him as the more likely Wolf than Sixth by the end of the Day. And I found this comment curious:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
I guess it's obvious that Six is toast now, but I daresay that you made a mistake, and if not, I'm going to eat my own Orc-food...
He could not be sure that Sixth was not a Wolf, unless a Wolf himself. The comment looks rather self-serving to me, and sure enough he has returned toDay with an “I told you so”.

Legate remains high in my suspicions.

Must dash, but I'll be back later. I'll leave the Malt on the counter.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:07 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
Of course, the abiding aim of the Wolves in their Nightly kills is to find the Seer while he or she yet lives. Yet I can see nothing in her posts that might have made the Wolves think her the Seer.
Even though not wolf, I did think of her as a Gifted myself, that's why the trust. Can't find the phrases now, and they might have been intentional, though most probably I'm just paranoid.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:17 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anguirel
I am rather concerned about Aganzir. His widowhood quip looks like a potential wolf-gloat. You'd say, no wolf would be foolish enough to wolf-gloat, but in the past when guilty I've often done it, enjoyed it and sometimes got away with it...part of the thrill of the chase.
This will probably seem explaining, and rather increase your suspicion than lessen it, but I would never have said that and taken the risk of being suspected, were I a wolf. When I read through Mith's posts at the beginning of the Day, I thought the one where she said she needs to know if widowhood is imminent was funny on a tragic way, and couldn't resist mentioning it. Please note that this is only my second game.
And oh, you can call me she.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:52 PM   #133
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Hmph, though I was skeptical somewhat, it really seems there was nothing - or at least nothing recognizable for me - behind the death of Mith. The points about her possible behavior as Seer might have some logic in it, though it didn't strike me like that - Galadriel has a mirror, that's a fact, no? Nevertheless, the motive might be there, even just like a support. This, however, does not help us.

Concerning the momentary debate:
Agnazir: I don't think Aganzir's "widowhood" notes are of interest, though I'd certainly find some things that could be. First I wanted to wait, but now when it was mentioned, I have only to say Aganzir just creates too many ambivalent fellings in me - I can't probably work with it now.

Ad SpM:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpM
He could not be sure that Sixth was not a Wolf, unless a Wolf himself.
As you were among the Six-voters as well, I wouldn't be as loud, being you. But concerning this, I thought, and I stand behind it, from the start (and you can even read it in my posts waay back there) that Six does not seem suspicious in anything, and the bandwaggon that formed against him was really very nasty. And as you were the one who started it, you are not in good light for me, as I said earlier. Lommy had to vote early, so the evidence cannot be based on her vote since it might have been just a momentary need to vote (and perhaps Ang is her lover or something like that, so that she didn't vote for him and picked Six instead). Ang, whatever suspicious he was/is to me, was voting to save himself, so even if he were a wolf, this vote would be logical even for innocent. Volo's was the first one that seemed strange to me, but now when I trust Volo, I can only say - even innocents do strange things sometimes. And then there is Mac, who seemed somewhat fishy to me yesterday and now is still. I think it's quite possible for two wolves to be in one voting - if they are SpM and Mac. From this point, Ang wouldn't fit that well in that scheme but, why not - three wolves out of four, one voting to save his skin. Hypothesis, of course, and very very imaginative, I know. But the main thought is in there.

We, of course (!) cannot forget that there might be more than one, even more than two wolves among the quiet people. But, however unfortunate it is, no evidence is bad evidence, so I suggest focusing on those who speak, and thus there is info about them. Hmm... now something struck me... Mith was the one who mentioned at one (or more) occassion that she would like to focus on the quiet ones (the opposite of what I'm saying here, this is how the idea came to me). What if the wolves are quiet and they killed Mith because...? (Another speculation. But worth mentioning, I'm sure.)

Other things. Just to recall one more thing on SpM which I said earlier - there were these possible links between SpM and Ang, if there were, and if Ang is a wolf - and even if he was not, SpM would have a good chance being a wolf (cf. the nice "I was just joking about Ang being suspicious and Six jumped on it, lookiee lookiee, ++Six" move of you). I remember you as wolf, SpM, and I know what you are capable of. I wanted to bring this back just so it's not forgotten. The way SpM seems to me lately, it's worth mentioning.
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Old 05-16-2007, 02:55 PM   #134
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SPM in interesting, even from the mere fact that he has written a huge amount of posts. He noted Legate as suspicious right from the beginning.

The only thing that raises my hair (not wolf-like hair. Just the usual hair (that is, in fact, longer than of a wolf's) is his early vote for Sixth. He voted for Sixth was very like Sixth's vote for Ang.

I'll leave it on this for now.


BTW, Legate, you've been saying that you have sense in every post of yours. Could you please clarify.

First post: You're saying "silence kills" and "Gifteds, reveal yourself"?

Second post: Umm, what?

Third post: Explaining Ang that you don't want the ones not able to speak to speak.

Fourth post: Gah, here you got me to sympathise with you... I actually find this post with the most sense so far. Oh, I hope I'm not totally wrong. Though you could have said it all much shorter and bolded out the names to save us from more confusion.

Fifth post: This is probably the post where suspicion rose. I really don't understand the first part, because, as I see it, you are accusing Ang for what you yourself are doing. You might have sense in every post, and so might Ang, the problem is that you can add the meaning to the post much later, when you are questioned. That's why I don't like in-out-character posts, in which you can later decide what's in and what's out.

Sixth post: Reasonable. Can't (or shouldn't) say much when not much has been said. But I don't get the SPM part, is it just "I'm not 100% that you're innocent"?

Seventh post: Agreed.

Eighth post: You were right, and suspicious at that. ?

Ninth post: Howcome so certain?

Jumping vote-tally tenth post.

Eleventh post: Nah, accusing for what you yourself have done, again...

Twelfth post: I won't say anything about Mith and Ang killing/not killing her.

Thirteenth post: Hmm... Good that you agree with me. Though I'm not so scared of the change in Boro's style as what his style is now. Might be that you are pressing too hard on the idea and trying to get my sympathy as I have clearly shown it.
I don't feel alarmed in the least about Shasta's vote. Ok, it's really really wierd. But understandable.
Weren't you the first to say that it was to leave no tracs?

On the whole: I don't know! Legate goes both ways. Many things have raised my alert, as his trying for sympathy and in-out-character posts. But then again, he has made a lot of sense and on the whole looks innocentish. I'm not inlined to vote for him now.


Huh, it's getting late here. I think I'll quit for now.


(Probably) Xd with everything after my preveous post.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:02 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganzir
This will probably seem explaining, and rather increase your suspicion than lessen it, but I would never have said that and taken the risk of being suspected, were I a wolf. When I read through Mith's posts at the beginning of the Day, I thought the one where she said she needs to know if widowhood is imminent was funny on a tragic way, and couldn't resist mentioning it. Please note that this is only my second game.
And oh, you can call me she.
What iss she doing, what is she doing! This is actually a very funny post.

1. "Were I a wolf..."

2. "I'm just a newbie..."

Two bad signss. Oh Preciouss...
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:07 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
Other things. Just to recall one more thing on SpM which I said earlier - there were these possible links between SpM and Ang, if there were, and if Ang is a wolf - and even if he was not, SpM would have a good chance being a wolf (cf. the nice "I was just joking about Ang being suspicious and Six jumped on it, lookiee lookiee, ++Six" move of you). I remember you as wolf, SpM, and I know what you are capable of. I wanted to bring this back just so it's not forgotten. The way SpM seems to me lately, it's worth mentioning.
Hmm... Possible. But maybe a bit far-fetched. I'd rather go with Boro-Ang.

Anguirel, what do you think of Boromir?

Boromir, what do you think of anything?
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:33 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gollum
What iss she doing, what is she doing! This is actually a very funny post.

1. "Were I a wolf..."

2. "I'm just a newbie..."

Two bad signss. Oh Preciouss...
We assumed it would look bad, precious, we did, but we didn't care. Poor Sméagol knows it, but good Sméagol bears it.
We understand we were being suspicious, but we couldn't think of a better way to express what we were thinking.
But referring to my newbieness was because it didn't even occur to me that a wolf might find it amusing to say something like what I'd said. (Apparently I should have realised it myself.)

First we thought we would not bother to comment Anguirel's petty accusation, but then we thought it would be good to correct his mistake concerning our gender, precious. And when we had already started writing a reply, no matter if we would say something more. And now we're probably making us look more and more suspicious. That's the way it goes, precious.

edit: I forgot to mention I'll be off to sleep now. I doubt I'll be back too soon, I'm dead tired.
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Old 05-16-2007, 03:59 PM   #138
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This post is for Volo (cf. above)

...and then I'm going to bed. What I wanted to say to current situation, I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
BTW, Legate, you've been saying that you have sense in every post of yours. Could you please clarify.
Now, if you permit me, I was in temptation to get rid of you by one of the answers of, well, not Saruman, but Gandalf the White, but White is White, so we can say it could belong to me, more or less: "What? Speaking in riddles? No! A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying." I.e. if there is a "wise" person, he/she'll find the meaning in it. But a few short answers I'll give to you.

I don't want to go through all my posts so I'm answering just to where you had the question mark, I suppose you take those where you understand or agree with me as "okay". Only if somewhere clarification will be needed, I'll add it.

First post: In translation to normal, game language: Introduction on the first line. Then rightaway in-game: "Notice, we have four wolves, not three. And Mith mentioned another possible baddies aiding. (this was quite scary to me at that moment, because I thought there are just some other roles on the good side, but checking at the admin it indeed seemed that there might be some other baddies)" Etc, etc - please note only that it certainly was NOT point of it to say "Gifteds, come here and reveal yourselves". It was quite the contrary: "Much have I desired to see you... for you could be of the greatest help to us... Alas, I cannot, and I know that: there's too much at stake." This means "Gifteds, be quiet." Why would, anyway, anyone want the Gifteds to reveal? (apart from the Wolves, of course) All was ended with, as I said after in clarification to Ang, "Let's speak more, and if anyone else is here just watching and didn't speak, then please, speak up."

Second post: Quite short, in-character Sarumanic arrogance, but then naturally switching to the words meaning "Anguirel, either speak sense and not just unnecesarrily long in-role speeches, or be quiet, because Mith already said something (take care of double-lynching...) and you are still just in-role." Also, to that aided the fact that while I thought "first post is banter, with second the real speech might start" and Ang's short post between these first two of mine was about absolutely nothing, while even my first had some content, I expected Ang to say at least "Ah, Saruman... etc... And to what you said, I would like to mention that I agree/disagree/think you should speak more or something like that. After X roleplayers there are few of us who finally say something, so let's talk." He didn't do anything, he continued in banter. That was what I was replying to at that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
Fifth post: This is probably the post where suspicion rose. I really don't understand the first part, because, as I see it, you are accusing Ang for what you yourself are doing. You might have sense in every post, and so might Ang, the problem is that you can add the meaning to the post much later, when you are questioned. That's why I don't like in-out-character posts, in which you can later decide what's in and what's out.
If you understand me from what I said, I am NOT and once again for the last time NOT accusing Ang for doing what I was doing, because he was NOT saying anything where I WAS. I am not going to return to this, I said it more than enough times, I believe.

Sixth post: SpM I mentioned just to "mark my progress", for myself (this post was even a sort of monologue for me) as well for others, it's another way of saying that I haven't forgotten about him, also for that HE knows it.

Eighth/Nineth post, and generally all concerning Six: Since I was fairly sure of Ang being a Wolf, or Spm being a Wolf, or whoever but at least someone, and I really didn't see anything suspicious on Six, as I said earlier many times, I was fairly sure Six is innocent. This is also everything I am saying on that matter, as well as the prolonged issue mentioned above, I already explained it, so that's it. Of course I had a little 1% of being wrong and for that chance I prepared a funny line about eating Orc food, which, as it turns out, I didn't need to use.

The last two posts I am not exactly sure of if you have any problem with them or not? If yes, please explain more exactly. Or my brain is just already shutting down. Only:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
Weren't you the first to say that it was to leave no tracs?
No, I think you must've confused me with someone else. Aganzir and Anguirel, I believe, spoke of it before me, or something like that. At least one of them surely - Aganzir, I think.

So that's about it. I probably crossed with someone, but I am not going to read anything till tomorrow. Good night.

EDIT: Oh really, didn't cross with almost anyone! Nice. Good night.
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Old 05-16-2007, 04:04 PM   #139
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Oh damn wrong set. . .

Anyways I am really sad to see Mith go as I love that gall, a lot of interesting things went on yesterday. Of the more notable ones I would like to mention:

1. Volo's revelation
2. Boromirs vote for him self
3. Brinniels slightly odd vote
4. Gil-galad's return to normal self


EDIT: Cross posted with Legate
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Old 05-16-2007, 04:22 PM   #140
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okay... now Durelins vote for me is probably one of the weakest i seen, so i don't have to throw really any defense on that accusation...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

1. Volo's revelation
2. Boromirs vote for him self
3. Brinniels slightly odd vote
4. Gil-galad's return to normal self


now i must cross-examine this...

1. brings a good view and definately starts off todays discussions
2. could be cobbler, or could be so bored with WW that he decided to play around with it, like that one time with my many-links post... good times...
3. will get back to you on that one
4. well my dear rune, i have already explained day one and now i am currently trying to get back into it, but if you want me to return to my old self by stating that here, then sure i will join boromir and just be a waste to the whole village! but i am not! i will try as hard as i did last game to play, so don't go throwing those assumptions out unless you beleive them to be true!


now that that rant is over... lets get back to the game...
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:06 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebang
I'd like to hear more from Diamond, largely as it would brighten things up...
I'm quite flattered, to be sure...

Well, I'm around and have a couple hours to spare tonight... I have some sticky real life issues this week which will be keeping me away from the game but I'll whine about that on the Admin Thread instead.

It takes me a few reads of the thread to work up any solid suspicions (oh who am I kidding: weak suspicions!) so at the moment I'm just blathering on a bit. The good news is that I think I'll be able to vote closer to the deadline toDay so I don't have to rush to figure something out in the next few minutes!

I'll be around but re-reading if anyone needs their wigs tweaked.
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:16 PM   #142
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First of Gil, I was stating what had caught my eye the previouse day. I was not making a post saying "KILL GIL-GALAD", as you clearly must have thought in order for you to produce such a reaction.

Whether there was RL reasons behind your actions or not it does not undo them, no matter what they will be a subject for analysing and judgement. If you returned today with a load of insightful posts nobody would care about you being quiet the first day, but if it kept up it would be a different matter.

Now if you notice I did not even state whether it was good or bad that you had been quiet yesterday, it was meerly something I noticed and that I thought was interesting.

It might as well speak for you innocense as your guilt.

I am not planing on spending more time on this matter as it was just a small thing that already has gotten blown out of proportions!
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:25 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil
okay... now Durelins vote for me is probably one of the weakest i seen, so i don't have to throw really any defense on that accusation...
Durelin? You mean Diamond, don't you?

Speaking of Durelin, where is she? She didn't post at all Day 1, and she has yet to show up toDay...

Okay, okay, I probably should go about and explain my vote (once again) since some thought it was odd (yeesh...I really need to start getting out of the habit of making weird votes...I don't mean to!). I voted for Legate because he was my top suspect, for good reasons, in my opinion. I admit the timing of the vote was a bit foolish, but I was hoping that there would be a chance that others would retract and vote for him as well. I stated I didn't want a double-lynch, because I honestly didn't want one...and I'm sure everyone (except for the wolves, I suppose) was thinking this as well, I guess I just had to be the stupid one to state it aloud. Also, I was there until the deadline with one retraction at hand...I was ready to change my vote to Sixth if it looked like a double lynch might occur. But that didn't happen, therefore I didn't change my vote.

There...I hope I explained that well enough.

About Boromir: I thought his first vote for himself was a bit odd, but I figured it was an in-character move and assumed he would change it later, so I didn't say anything. I think it was an attempt to get a discussion moving of some sort...but I don't know. Hopefully, we will hear from him soon.

Okay, time for me to go and examine yesterDay's posts more closely...
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:40 PM   #144
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Well, I’m back! But not for long, I’m afraid and, after that, I fear not making it back before the deadline, so I’m going to have to vote shortly.

Meanwhile, to pick up on a few earlier comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
First of all, I'd like to send attention to Boromir, who, from my perspective, acted rather un-Boromirish... (And I'm refering to Denetorish either.)
I don’t regard Boro’s actions as yesterDay particularly un-Boromirish. But his quietness certainly is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganzir
But I'm not sure about you either, Volo ...
I agree that we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that Volo's claim would be excellent cover for a Wolf, for a few Days at least, but I see nothing to cause me to distrust it for now. And, assuming that he is true, he looks from his enquiring contributions toDay to be a useful ally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
As you were among the Six-voters as well, I wouldn't be as loud, being you.
Why not? My own vote should not prevent me considering all the evidence, such as it is. We all have to (or should) vote every Day, and on Day 1 there is little to go on. Sixth looked the most suspicious to me at the time that I voted. As it happens, I would have preferred to have changed my vote to you at the end of the Day, but was wary of the possibility of creating a tie or of Ang (who I thought more likely innocent than not at the time) being lynched. You, on the other hand, showed far more conviction than I would think possible for an innocent that Sixth was innocent.

Leggie, I find your explanation of the “substance” in your opening votes distinctly unconvincing. What little substance there is there is hardly earth-shattering. That, in itself, I would not find suspicious, as it was early on Day 1. What concerns me is that you keep criticising Ang for doing what you yourself were doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
If you understand me from what I said, I am NOT and once again for the last time NOT accusing Ang for doing what I was doing, because he was NOT saying anything where I WAS.
You can deny this as much as you like, but the evidence of the posts is there and undeniable. Ang was talking “in-character“, but making some points at the same time, just as you claim to have been doing. It doesn’t follow that Ang is innocent (and I am still wary of his suggestion that the Wolves might look to distance themselves from each other), but your continuing attempts to re-write the opening skirmishes makes you look far worse in my eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil
i will try as hard as i did last game to play ...
What, you mean the one where you were a Vampire … ?
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Old 05-16-2007, 05:49 PM   #145
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil
okay... now Durelins vote for me is probably one of the weakest i seen, so i don't have to throw really any defense on that accusation...
Durelin? You mean Diamond, don't you?
Eh?

You mean because of the signature? I wouldn't call that weak reasoning so much as no reasoning at all, which is pretty much what happens when you have to vote hours and hours early on Day 1. So no, I wasn't expecting you to have to come up with a defense....

I do find it a little funny though that you had to mention that... I mean, I thought it seemed pretty clear that I did not seriously suspect you. A little paranoia leaking through, maybe? Hm.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:28 PM   #146
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(Don't have much to say right now as I just got back from the LotR musical (*squeals*) and I'm exhausted and would like to get the nights events up on LJ before I forget them.)

Mith killed during the Night. Why? There has been mention of possible Seer hints but that was role play. It would have been a good cover but Gifted-Mith is far more subtle until she's focused on. Plus, there were a couple of people who questioned the way she was acting and she barely responded, which again is an anti Gifted-Mith thing.

That latter thing, Mac, is what made me think Mith was innocent so no, I didn't have any suspicions in her direction yesterDay.

So perhaps we have newbie wolves? People who haven't played with Mith often enough to know her style? Unfortunately it could just be that they thought she was an easy kill. Hopefully the next kill will help us decide which it is.

I've only flicked through the posts so far, I'll read up properly tomorrow.
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:41 PM   #147
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Well, Legate remains my prime suspect.

Of the others, I have some concerns about Kath, Mac, Brinniel, Aganzir and Rune.

Kath, Mac and Brinniel for their votes yesterDay, as I explained earlier. But it’s not sufficient evidence to persuade me to vote for them, and I have seen little else in their contributions to cause me undue alarm.

Aganzir looks to me to be committing the traditionally suspicious werewolfing sin of posting relatively frequently without saying much concerning her own thoughts, particularly toDay. She is distinctly non-committal. But it’s still early in the game and that may just be her way.

Rune is an interesting case. As I think Kath noted yesterDay, he too has been around a fair bit without saying a lot. And his contributions seem to follow a distinct pattern. He comments on someone, provokes a slight overeaction (in Mac yesterDay and Gil toDay), and then overreacts rather defensively himself. I’m not sure that it’s enough just yet to condemn him as a Wolf, but he is probably my second suspect after Legate.

But now I must vote and, since he remains the most suspicious to my eyes at the moment, I shall vote for:

++Legate of Amon Lanc

I shall try to make it back before the deadline, but I am not hopeful.
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Old 05-16-2007, 10:24 PM   #148
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Do what you must Volo et all who hath accuseth me. This time I can't be my normal self. This is the first time I've had the chance to get on today. And just like Day 1, I'm going to get some more rest (as I have to get ready for work again in 5 hours, and when I come back I'm going to vote. This is how it is going to be for me most of the time. So, I'm going to read through all this stuff today, post my thoughts...get a few hours of sleep, come back and vote.

As for why I voted for myself...it was in-character stuff, but also to try and get reactions (which didn't happen at all). At that time there was about 20 posts, something around that number? Nothing at all stuck out to me, I wanted to try and get some discussion going as I had to vote within a few hours and had absolutely no clue. I didn't get what I wanted (as there were only a few posts after I voted for myself), so changed my vote for a mostly random reason, but Ang was the most suspicious one to me. Again, he seemed far to chirpy and jolly. His posts reminded me of Fea. And Fea scares the crap out of me when she plays.

Now to get caught up...
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Old 05-16-2007, 11:12 PM   #149
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Well, Kath and Brinniel have given off this innocent vibe to me. Their tone comes off as innocent and sweet. If one of them is a wolf, congrats to you for completely fooling me.

I'm willing to trust Volo's reveal, for the time being.

Now, Legate, Sauce, and Ang are an interesting and talky bunch. I think one is a wolf. And of those 3 Ang looks the most wolvish and Sauce looks the most innocent.

Sauce is very adamant in going after Legate. That's how he always is as an ordinary innocent. He has his suspects and he goes after them with everything he has...very lawyerish of him .

Legate made a strange comment at the end of voting yesterday that didn't sit right with me:
Quote:
Hey, we HAVE TO AVOID DOUBLE-LYNCH AT ALL COSTS!!!
And in the same post:
Quote:
PLEASE CHECK YOU DON'T CROSS-VOTE WITH ANYONE, BECAUSE THEN WE CAN HAVE DOUBLE-LYNCH VERY NICELY.
I mean we all know that a double-lynch only helps the wolves, and it's good to be reminded 'hey lets avoid a double-lynch, this might happen if we mess up.' But this just seems too forced and and quite frankly fake. It's like Legate is trying to look innocent by reminding us all we don't want a double-lynch (duh ), but the manner he does it (the all caps and twice in the same post) looks fake and like he's trying too hard to look innocent.

Ang, I really can't get a hold on, and I know as long as we are both around that isn't going to change. I have a funny feeling about him...as I really always do actually. Ang is one of the toughest players, that I know I will never figure out because he is the exact same as an innocent or a wolf. Which means I get the same 'bad feelings' about him all the time.
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:31 AM   #150
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Boro is now on his usual form, which is good, though I don't think he was ever that much off it (despite Gil-Galad's damning verdict...)

There seems to be a lot of viciousness in this game. I know that sounds deeply feeble, but really, rarely have I encountered a village where the vibes are so dark.

Much of the tension permeates from Saruman. Sauce observed he seemed to know too much about Sixth, but this need not necessarily point to guilt. I have a tendency myself to be pessimistic whenever most lynchs, but especially compromise-lynchs like that one, are enacted. So far as that goes, I don't suspect Saruman particularly. But his forceful voice and obsessive opinions is creating almost as much division as an extra werewolf. It is also true that I could readily see him doing in my wife, who he had various spats with but also fought shy of confronting directly (unlike his approach vis-a-vis me).

So, yes...could still go either way on that one.

Lommy is keeping her nose very clean, but that could be a time issue.

A few candidates are attracting most of the attention today...we should really try casting the net wider. Say, Durelin, for instance. I haven't thought about her once yet, and that's not a good sign...

A lot of you have been sniffing around Mac, but no votes materialised. Is he suspicious, or the victim of a tentative and indecisive wolf intrigue, I wonder? I'll look at his posting when I next have the time.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:24 AM   #151
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Alright, I'm not going to stay up terribly late trying to analyze everyone right now. I think I'd rather go to bed early (ha, like 3am is early) and get up early when this thread is more active. Curse these time zones, they can be such a nuisance at times...

Back to the subject, I will take a closer look at others in the morning, but for now, I would like to take a look at yesterDay's prime suspects (other than Sixth, of course): Anguirel and Legate

So far toDay, my suspicions of Legate have not changed:

One thing I've noticed is that he's been a bit jumpy and overly-defensive towards those who have accused him. Partly I get this feeling from words, but mostly from tone. Of course, tone can be read quite differently when it's in writing, so perhaps I'm just reading the signals wrong and he is not actually as upset as he seems to be, but nevertheless, it's the feeling I have.

Though, Boromir has brought one thing to attention that does raise some alarms for me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir
Legate made a strange comment at the end of voting yesterday that didn't sit right with me:
Quote:
Hey, we HAVE TO AVOID DOUBLE-LYNCH AT ALL COSTS!!!
And in the same post:
Quote:
PLEASE CHECK YOU DON'T CROSS-VOTE WITH ANYONE, BECAUSE THEN WE CAN HAVE DOUBLE-LYNCH VERY NICELY.
I mean we all know that a double-lynch only helps the wolves, and it's good to be reminded 'hey lets avoid a double-lynch, this might happen if we mess up.' But this just seems too forced and and quite frankly fake. It's like Legate is trying to look innocent by reminding us all we don't want a double-lynch (duh ), but the manner he does it (the all caps and twice in the same post) looks fake and like he's trying too hard to look innocent.
Now, the mentioning of the double-lynch itself doesn't alarm me, I mean it is something I admit I said myself, although it was in a bit of a different manner. But then Legate goes about accusing me of being wolfish for saying something he said himself first. I'm not sure what exactly to think on this, but it certainly makes me uneasy...

On Anguirel:

I honestly have to say I'm confused on what to think of him. I don't see anything strange about his vote for Sixth. He did it to save himself from a lynch, as he explains in post #99, which is something anyone would do, wolf or innocent. The main thing that catches my attention is that he gained so much suspicion yesterDay, and perhaps in the morning I will better examine this. I've never played with Ang until now, so I'm not terribly aware of his style, but I've heard that he can be quite dangerous as a wolf, so while he doesn't raise any huge alarms for me yet, indeed I will be careful not to disregard him.

If there is a wolf among these two players, I do think it would be only one. Ang and Legate have been at each other since Day 1, which is too risky to be wolf-on-wolf, in my opinion.

Okay, it's getting late. I'm off to bed now. I'll try to be back around three hours before the deadline.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:36 AM   #152
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Well, I'm afraid like yesterday, all the action today will take place after I have to vote. Hmm...two posts, and none of my opinions have changed. Brinniel is still innocent and Ang I have no clue...could be anything.

It's difficult to pull the platform on Legate. He has said a lot of strange and odd things, but it doesn't seem very wolfish-Legate like. If you know what I mean. Legate was more careful and friendly the one time I knew he was a wolf. Maybe since that didn't work too well for him he wanted to try a different strategy? I don't know, but it just seems like Legate is too careless (in not monitoring what he says) to be a wolf.

Bah, I really have no clue, it must be done:

++Legate
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:40 AM   #153
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Oh and a note about Durelin, Ang, if Durelin doesn't show up to post or vote today...my understanding is she mysteriously disappears for good. Quite a shame really, as if I ever suddenly get some strong urge to burn myself (ya like that will ever happen ) I can't. You think I'm going to trust some untrained orc to handle the burning of my noble arse? Pah, ya right. Hey orc, fetch me some cherries.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:00 AM   #154
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Reflections&reactions on what has happened meanwhile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brinniel
I stated I didn't want a double-lynch, because I honestly didn't want one...and I'm sure everyone (except for the wolves, I suppose) was thinking this as well, I guess I just had to be the stupid one to state it aloud.
Well, the point was, that you said you didn't want a double-lynch and at the same time performed an action that could cause a double-lynch. I understand if you wanted to vote for me, but voting for Six (even though it wasn't right) would have been much better, safer in the meaning of safer for the community. On that I now feel okay because of your explanation in the rest of your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brinniel
Also, I was there until the deadline with one retraction at hand...I was ready to change my vote to Sixth if it looked like a double lynch might occur. But that didn't happen, therefore I didn't change my vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpM
but your continuing attempts to re-write the opening skirmishes makes you look far worse in my eyes.
(sarcastic tone) No, SpM, it's not me bringing it back. It's you, because everyone asks me about it five million times and I five million times answer the same thing.

Also, when you mention it, the "nothing-saying" of Ang's posts is not the main point of my suspicions of him, there's quite much more of it. I'm going to re-investigate Ang's case, because he seems more "normal" at the later time, though I am still very aware of that might be a retreating move from a wolf, which I would really not like to experience and thus letting a wolf slip out of the spotlight.

Now something on Boro. That he appeared here and spoke in a more active way, as I thought his behavior is, is nice. But. There is something fishy and now I am actually thinking of a connection between SpM and Boro. When someone says "these three are most vocal, and Ang seems most suspicious, where Legate does this and this and SpM does this and this but I think he's actually innocent" (or that is, from my point, the message of it), then such a statement has several impacts: a) someone who reads it might get the feeling that Ang is suspicious, b) someone who reads it might get the feeling that I am suspicious, but what if Boro does not pay enough attention to me, putting me on the second place? Result: the person focuses either on Ang or me. Of course not on SpM. Boro also mentions him, but says that it's not an important matter, and when the person looks at it, he might say "Well, Boromir speaks reasonable, of course he does, so let's leave SpM for now."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anguirel
A few candidates are attracting most of the attention today...we should really try casting the net wider. Say, Durelin, for instance. I haven't thought about her once yet, and that's not a good sign...
Seriously, while there is the possibility that the wolves might be hiding among the quiet ones (cf. what I said about it earlier), waiting for us vocal ones to kill each other, I don't think there wouldn't be at least one among the vocal ones. Even if it were not, these are just shots in the dark until we know for sure that all of us "vocal" are innocent. Evidence from the quiet ones' posts (if any) is quite feeble evidence. Realizing this, I think it's best to drop this until something happens that brings some more light on the innocents, or shows the "vocal" into being innocent.

EDIT: x-ed with these after Anguirel (Brinn, Boro...)
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:13 AM   #155
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On whom I crossed with

Brinniel about my "do not double-lynch": well, now you hopefully can understand it (my post above). Also, as you can guess from the capital letters, it was pretty much a post written in affect - I just learned then that deadline is upon us and I saw the ghost of double-lynch upon us, so I was "shouting" the (in my opinion, important, as I know these "last-time votes") warning of checking if you are not x-voting with someone. Which is another important thing to bear in mind even for the next days, I think.

Boromir: Now this is really rising alarms. Again, cf. above: He thinks Ang the most suspicious of all three of us, and now he votes for me. Also, the end of his post where he said this, he says Ang looks the most wolvish, but then at the end says he doesn't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
And of those 3 Ang looks the most wolvish and Sauce looks the most innocent.
The same post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
Ang, I really can't get a hold on, and I know as long as we are both around that isn't going to change. I have a funny feeling about him...as I really always do actually. Ang is one of the toughest players, that I know I will never figure out because he is the exact same as an innocent or a wolf.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:55 AM   #156
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Turn 180°

I have done a little Anguirelysis and I am announcing hereby that I am dropping all my earlier accuses. Should I checked him yesterday (or over the Night), this might have saved some confusion, but what happened, happened. There were not his toDay's posts at that time yet, anyway, and they add their own, quite a large bit, to cause me drop my suspicions.

Now when I already was in it, for peace of mind I started checking other people:

Mac. His two first posts are quite harsh, but we got past it before. In his third post, he even explains it, and I feel it quite innocentish. The post itself looks very good.

Then he does say some things on me, which could be from an innocent's point of view, because he doesn't seem to be attempting to raise things against me, rather he's (if I exaggerate it, of course he is not actually) defending me, or calming it down. Of course, there was pretty much suspicion on me at that time already, so if I ended lynched innocent, then this would serve Mac as good cover "this innocent's blood is not on my hands". But again, that's probably overcombinating it.

Then he voted for Six, which I sort of didn't like, as I said earlier. Beside SpM's, as I mentioned somewhere before (and Volo's, but he is innocent, or so I believe), this was another not much nice vote for Six. He also tied him with Ang in the lead (which was not a problem at that time yet, and also he later said he could change his vote to me if necessary). Today, he just posted that analysis about Mithalwen. Hey, I didn't catch the moment where he said he suspected her? The only moment he mentioned her was in the first post where he mentioned her at the same point as me, and then he was responding to her. Or did I forget anything?
If any of Mac's post, this would be giving bad feeling to me, but that's just because, as some people who played with me already know, I don't like and a priori am suspicious on people who post summaries of any kind, because it's an easy job a wolf has to do anyway, and then he can just post it, adding some imagined stuff concerning him and his comrades... But that's in no way point for accusing, and you can't actually get much from it unless it contradicts anything.

So in general: Mac seems more or less okay. Others coming shortly. Maybe.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:15 AM   #157
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Quote:
Which leaves Mac’s vote. This was effectively the one which pushed Sixth into pole position as the “not Anguirel” candidate, rather than Legate. As such, I regard it as the most suspicious of the Sixth votes.
Sauce, you are aware that Legate had a total of zero votes when I voted Six? I was suspicious of Six, I wanted Ang to live. It was a no-brain vote for me, especially with retractions available.

I like Volo's point on Aganzir and I agree with Saucepan's points on Legate and Rune. I don't want to repeat what has already been said.

I think I will have a closer look at Kath once she has posted more. That vibe that Boro calls innocent doesn't leave me with an innocent feeling, but there is very little for me to go on yet.

I find it a tiny bit strange that Boro is suspicious because of Legate's double lynch comments, while he finds Brinniel, who made similar comments, innocent. I mean, I share his overall judgement of the two, but still it's a little bit weird. Where do you see the difference, Boro? You have not told.

Legate, do you intend to manufacture a new wolvish connection between villagers every second post now until a couple of innocents bite on one? Because that is what your behaviour is looking like to me.

edit: hit 'post' on accident. The above is only a draft...
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:19 AM   #158
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It might be evil to say, but a lot of the stuff happening is (or can be thought of) happening around Aganzir.

I'll continue going through toDay's Aganzir talk:

#121 Aganzir, first post to the subject. Even three things that raise alarms. (Either Aganzir's style is after mine, or then she's a wolf.) We'll come back to them later.

#128 Anguirel. Mentions Aganzir's post's first alarm raising part. Gloating is something very easily done, and often noticed. Says "he" of Aganzir, which could be a trick.

#132 Aganzir The most alarming post so far.

#133 Legate Pretty much just mentions Aganzir and leaves it at that. Though the way he put it is a bit suspicious: A slight defence and some undescribably suspicion.

#135 Volo Return to post #132. I point out the two things that are a usual newbie-wolf mistake (As I very well know. Fenris Wolf, grrau.) in a joking manner.

#137 Aganzir What's so bad here is that she takes the on the in-character manner I set for her.

#147 SPM Says, like I did before, that Aganzir makes the usual mistakes, but wants to wait. This too makes a wolf-wolf connection between the two.

So: Aganzir has made close to none sense in her posts, except for self-defence of which there is plenty. Many posts: only self-defence and joking. The only part of her that doesn't make me want to lynch her is that she's who she is.

In her preveous game she was very calm, very very suprisingly calm. Where's the calmness now? Ok, she's still calm in her words, but not in the meaning.

At first I found her more like a Gifted, then like a Cobbler, now like a Wolf, what next?

I'll vote for her if nothing suprising happens.


EDIT: Xd with Legate and Mac.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:19 AM   #159
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My last post was crossed with a few of Legate. I was about to change my joking tone in the last line. I'm sorry.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:34 AM   #160
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What I really was about to say about Legate (now that I read his post about me):


Though I certainly like him not being suspicious of me, there is some kind of "appeasing" tone within his post about me. I'm not sure what to think of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
Of course, there was pretty much suspicion on me at that time already, so if I ended lynched innocent, then this would serve Mac as good cover "this innocent's blood is not on my hands". But again, that's probably overcombinating it.
"This innocent's blood is not on my hands"?
But I said that I was willing to vote for you in a later post. I definitely was suspicious of you when I wrote my short analysis. It was your reaction to it that made it cease the significant small bit.

Why do you suddenly feel like you're overcombinating.


I understand that you were sure about Six's innocence and I don't think, unlike others, that it is a suspicious thing. What I don't understand is that you don't understand how others were able to think he's not innocent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
Hey, I didn't catch the moment where he said he suspected her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
My main suspects right now are Legate and Six, followed by Mith, followed by, well, pretty much everybody...
Besides, my last post about Mith was not mere summary...
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