The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2018, 06:58 AM   #1
R.R.J Tolkien
Wight
 
R.R.J Tolkien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 156
R.R.J Tolkien has just left Hobbiton.
The Army of the Dead- Movie vs Books

So i read a great essay on the army of the dead found here.


Answerer: can the Dead Men (Army of the Dead) kill people?
https://terpconnect.umd.edu/~jkeener...n/deadmen.html

"There has been considerable pushback from book fans to the depiction of the Dead Men as an essentially invincible force. To be clear, there is nothing in the books to suggest that the Dead had the ability to slaughter tens of thousands of soldiers in a matter of minutes. "

So what are everyone thoughts, did the movies portray the army of the dead in a lore accurate manner [besides them fighting at the battle of the pelennor fields] or did they overpower them for movie effects.
__________________
“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food...I am fond of mushrooms.” -J.R.R Tolkien
R.R.J Tolkien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 07:07 AM   #2
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,058
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
I only saw the PJ movies once, so my memory of the scene is (thankfully) hazy.

The book, however, seems to indicate the Dead, like the Nazgűl, relied primarily on the dread that accompanied them to achieve victory.

Gimli described the scenario:

Quote:
'Pale swords were drawn; but I know not whether their blades would still bite, for the Dead no longer needed any weapon but fear. None would withstand them.'
ROTK The Last Debate

Since they were dead, unlike the Ringwraiths, they should not have still had physical bodies. That would preclude any ability to actually fight.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 07:50 AM   #3
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,299
Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
A sea of green slime that overwhelms enemies by swarming over them like an army of ants and... what exactly? How is it that movie-army of the dead kills their victims? Seriously, they reminded me of some termite or piranha attack, where they cover a victim completely and in two seconds there's nothing left. My memory of the movie isn't best either, so if the movie actually shows how the dead kill people please correct me.


As for the book-army of the dead, I agree with Zil. The dead inspire fear. They did not directly kill anyone - the corsairs just fled from terror, and the Gondorian slaves would have fled too if not for their chains. Certainly everyone on land would have fled if it wasn't for Aragorn. It's a fear that doesn't discriminate.

Now the Nazgul also work by fear, but that fear does discriminate. Their foes drop their weapons, fall down helplessly, lose their purpose, but their armies rush forward madly because even sure death is better than facing the Nazgul's wrath. It is curious - a hypothetical scenario - what would happen to the fear balance if the book dead did come to Pelannor Fields. Probably nothing good to the men fighting outside the walls of the city, but what about Sauron's army?
__________________
You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera
Galadriel55 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 08:04 AM   #4
Zigűr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigűr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
Zigűr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigűr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
On the point that essay makes about who broke Baldor's legs, I must say that I never thought the Dead did it, but rather, as the essay itself considers, individuals from the still-living remnant of their society (which had completely died out by the end of the Third Age several centuries later). It never even crossed my mind that the Dead were responsible.

The film isn't exactly clear on how the Dead hurt anyone anyway. They seem to just sort of wash about like the tide and things fall over. Then again I could be misremembering. I haven't watched Jackson's Return of the King in about ten years.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigűr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2018, 11:05 AM   #5
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,528
Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigűr View Post
The film isn't exactly clear on how the Dead hurt anyone anyway. They seem to just sort of wash about like the tide and things fall over. Then again I could be misremembering. I haven't watched Jackson's Return of the King in about ten years.
The army of green Scrubbing Bubbles(TM) was loaded with Perchloroethylene, Triclosan, Quarternary Ammonium Compounds, 2-Butoxyethanol, Ammonia, Sodium Hydroxide and Chlorine.

The green Scrubbing Bubbles(TM) poisoned everything in its wake, but left the White City sparkling clean, 99% bacteria-free, and with the scent of a mountain meadow bouquet in Spring.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.
Morthoron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2018, 12:02 PM   #6
Rhun charioteer
Wight
 
Rhun charioteer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 118
Rhun charioteer has just left Hobbiton.
I know a lot of book fans weren't fans of it. But it was the only way to have Aragorn and Co. arriving to save the day without introducing either Elrond's sons or a lot of Gondorian nobles and their retinues and having the audience go "who are these people?"

So it was a creative choice I understand.
Rhun charioteer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.