What DID she mean?? :) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tarien Ithil · 05-21-2003, 11:51 AM

I’ve found a line in FOTR that strikes me as rather strange…It’s when Galadriel says:“Welcome, Frodo of the Shire! One who has seen the Eye!”OK…….So does she mean that Frodo has seen her eye (please excuse my ignorance and forgive and forget ) or if she meant Sauron’s eye, well, that’s just plain weird cause Frodo never actually saw Sauron’s eye. OK, this is a little vague, but you do get the picture. Tarien Ithil

GaladrieloftheOlden · 05-21-2003, 11:53 AM

But in the movie, he did see the Eye. Remember, when he put on the Ring in the Prancing Pony? ~Menelien

Eruwen · 05-21-2003, 01:06 PM

For another thing to add...she says "the eye". This refers to Sauron's eye...the Eye of Sauron. Everyone refered to it as "the eye". It's just as simple as that.

Meela · 05-21-2003, 01:15 PM

Yeh, the Eye of Sauron. I wouldn't credit her so much as to say that she has a famous eye. But it would be handy if Celeborn was sneaking off. You'd hear this great yell across Lorien and a giant Galadriel eye would float above the tree tops. And I would pity Celeborn.

Tarien Ithil · 05-23-2003, 11:27 AM

LOL, Meela. OK, sorry. Forgot about the Prancing Pony but don't you find it rather strange that Galadriel actually knew that Frodo had seen the Eye of Sauron?

HCIsland · 05-23-2003, 11:40 AM

It's that bloody mirror. No one's safe. It's big brother (or sister). Actually, she knew of the quest and it seems likely the source of that knowledge would be Elrond. As well, it would also seem likely that Frodo would have disclosed the details of his journey at Rivendell. Putting it all together, it's not too strange that Galadriel would know about this.H.C.

Everdawn · 05-24-2003, 03:03 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's that bloody mirror. No one's safe. It's big brother <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hence the high rate of psycologists in Lorien, a place where it pays more than a lawyer...

Manwe Sulimo · 05-24-2003, 09:20 AM

No, remember? Galadriel is telepathic in the movies, for some reason. Which is a subject that hasn't been hated enough. Someone should start a thread called "Elves Aren't Telepathic!"

Yavanna228 · 05-24-2003, 01:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Galadriel is telepathic in the movies, for some reason. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Maybe the telepathy was to play up the elves' power, shrewdness, and wisdom. Anyway, back on topic: Yes, 'the eye' was definitely Sauron's eye. Peace

**The Saucepan Man** · 05-24-2003, 07:25 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Someone should start a thread called "Elves Aren't Telepathic!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But didn't JRRT develop some kind of Elvish mental communication, called Osanwe Kenta or something similar?

Everdawn · 05-24-2003, 10:24 PM

Elves are telepathic... Meaning that they can communicate without speech.

Manwe Sulimo · 05-25-2003, 05:31 AM

Wait...that means we're telepathic, too. I'm not speaking to you, but we're communicating....And I've not actually heard of "Osanwe Kenta", but if it's an Elvish telepathy system, would they be able to "speak" to other races (like Frodo and Boromir)?

Lyra Greenleaf · 05-25-2003, 06:02 AM

With Elves mind-to-mind communication, didn't it only apply to Elves? I think that was PJs blunder, not the fact that it existed. As for the Eye, that was all a bit strange. Presumably if you've seen the Eye you're marked in some way for others who have seen it. Or, what the heck, maybe Galadriel is just some sort of all-powerful being. Maybe she is the brains behind Sauron? Wouldn't that be a Hollywood twist!

Feared Half-Elf · 05-25-2003, 06:15 AM

I bet it's that ring that Galadriel has, Nenya. It makes her mirror work, so she can probably use it for telepathy.

HCIsland · 05-25-2003, 07:51 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think that was PJs blunder, not the fact that it existed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That would imply it was done by mistake when obviously it wasn't. In the movie she is obviously telepathic, get over it. The movie is not the book, I would have figured people would have figured that out by now.Editted to add: I should apologize for the tone of my post (though not the content). I get frustrated with these endless arguments that basically equate to - if it's different from the book than it is a mistake. We all know there are changes from the book to the film and the majority of us seem to realize that some changes were necessary. If you want to argue that a certain change is a mistake, power to you but I think you should give mover reasons than just pointing out the fact that it is a change.Personally, I like the scene when the Fellowship is entering Lothlorien and Galadriel is talking to Frodo. There is a great evil coming into the forest and Galadriel has every reason to be disturbed by it, not the least reason being that she herself is tempted by it. It's creepy and, in my opinion, effectly communicates the unease felt by all parties at that particular moment.H.C.[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

Finwe · 05-26-2003, 04:51 PM

Actually, a valid argument can be made about Elves being telepathic. If you re-read the last chapter or two of Return of the King, when Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and the others are traveling to Imladris from Gondor, on the way, Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond and Gandalf speak to each other with their minds. The text specifically says that they seemed like grey statues by the roadside, speaking to each other mind-to-mind. So, it is possible, and since Frodo is the Bearer of the One Ring, and Galadriel is the Bearer of Nenya, they could probably speak mind-to-mind. After all, doesn't the One Ring give the Bearer dominion over the others according to his/her measure? Since Frodo is nowhere in the league of Sauron, the power that he received was the ability to converse with the other Ringbearers mind-to-mind.

05-27-2003, 03:26 AM

OK, let's get things straight.First, Galadriel can communicate with others "telepathically". And I don't just mean Frodo. If I'm not mistaken, in the book it says that Frodo could hear her voice inside his head while she was talking to the others. And later on, Sam told Frodo that Galadriel had been doing the same thing to him too(forgive my english)!Let me give you an advice. In order to understand why Galadriel and the other Elves can communicate like that, try to stop thinking of the movie as a science-fiction one(that goes for the books too!). This is a mysterious world, and the creatures that live in it do not obey to the same rules of Physics as we know it today. It didn't matter whether you were Elf or Human or Dwarf. As long as your spirit, your will was strong enough, you were given the opportunity to "touch" things that lied beyond common perception. Don't forget that, according to the book, Aragorn warned Gandalf not to enter the mines of Moria, for in his heart he felt something wrong was going to happen, especially to Gandalf. And it did! And besides, when Frodo first heard the elven songs in Imladris (Rivendell), he could feel their meaning inside of him although he didn't understand their words.The bottom-line is that any creature of Middle-Earth that was wise, enlightened or powerful enough, could present some kind of "powers". Then, their individuality would give these "powers" a more distinctive form, whether it was the ability to see things with one's magic mirror, the ability to speak to one's heart and mind without actually talking, or the ability to forge a powerful ring that can destroy the world, since we're at it. Most of the elves had such powers because they could live to see many centuries go by (not to mention Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan). Most of the Kings of Gondor did too, especially Aragorn. And Frodo surely earned that right in his own time, for having carried the Ring. That is how I like to imagine Middle-Earth and I hope there are some that agree with me.

Tarien Ithil · 05-27-2003, 11:41 AM

Gee, thanks for your insight, Neniel! You really put effort into that little summary! Thanks for your contribution! Tarien Ithil

Child of the 7th Age · 05-27-2003, 08:27 PM

Yes, Elves in general and Galadriel in particular were definitely telepathic. For detailed views on telepathy in Middle-earth, you can look at an essay Tolkien wrote that is published only in Vinyar Tengwar, a publication of the Elvish Linguistic group within the Mythopoeic Society. It is the July 1998 issue and can be ordered online for just $2.If you search osanwe kenta in the Books forum, you'll pull up several threads that even contain links to the website.According to Tolkien, all sentient beings--including Men and Hobbits--are capable of osanwe, but the Ainur and the Elves have mastered the skill to the highest degree. It is likely in the West that osanwe was used to a much greater degree than in Middle-earth itself.sharon

05-21-2003, 11:51 AM	#1
Tarien Ithil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Shade of a Tree Posts: 259	What DID she mean?? :) I’ve found a line in FOTR that strikes me as rather strange…<P>It’s when Galadriel says:<P>“Welcome, Frodo of the Shire! One who has seen the Eye!”<P>OK…….So does she mean that Frodo has seen her eye (please excuse my ignorance and forgive and forget ) or if she meant Sauron’s eye, well, that’s just plain weird cause Frodo never actually saw Sauron’s eye. <BR>OK, this is a little vague, but you do get the picture. <P><BR>Tarien Ithil __________________ “The English-speaking world is divided into those who have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and those who are going to read them.” – Sunday Times Crickhollow

05-21-2003, 11:53 AM	#2
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,611	But in the movie, he <I>did</I> see the Eye. Remember, when he put on the Ring in the Prancing Pony? <P>~Menelien __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."

05-21-2003, 01:06 PM	#3
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 901	For another thing to add...she says "<I>the</I> eye". This refers to Sauron's eye...the Eye of Sauron. Everyone refered to it as "the eye". It's just as simple as that.

05-21-2003, 01:15 PM	#4
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,118	Yeh, the Eye of Sauron. I wouldn't credit her so much as to say that she has a famous eye. But it would be handy if Celeborn was sneaking off. You'd hear this great yell across Lorien and a giant Galadriel eye would float above the tree tops. And I would pity Celeborn. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

05-23-2003, 11:27 AM	#5
Tarien Ithil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Shade of a Tree Posts: 259	LOL, Meela. <P>OK, sorry. Forgot about the Prancing Pony but don't you find it rather strange that Galadriel actually <I>knew</I> that Frodo had seen the Eye of Sauron? __________________ “The English-speaking world is divided into those who have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and those who are going to read them.” – Sunday Times Crickhollow

05-23-2003, 11:40 AM	#6
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	It's that bloody mirror. No one's safe. It's big brother (or sister). <P>Actually, she knew of the quest and it seems likely the source of that knowledge would be Elrond. As well, it would also seem likely that Frodo would have disclosed the details of his journey at Rivendell. Putting it all together, it's not too strange that Galadriel would know about this.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

05-24-2003, 03:03 AM	#7
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It's that bloody mirror. No one's safe. It's big brother <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hence the high rate of psycologists in Lorien, a place where it pays more than a lawyer... __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

05-24-2003, 09:20 AM	#8
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	No, remember? Galadriel is telepathic in the movies, for some reason. Which is a subject that hasn't been hated enough. Someone should start a thread called "Elves Aren't Telepathic!" __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

05-24-2003, 01:41 PM	#9
Yavanna228 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: on the wings of the morning Posts: 410	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Galadriel is telepathic in the movies, for some reason. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe the telepathy was to play up the elves' power, shrewdness, and wisdom. <BR>Anyway, back on topic: Yes, 'the eye' was definitely Sauron's eye.<BR>Peace __________________ 'Dulaman na Binne Bui, Dulaman Gaelach/ Dulaman na farraige, 's e b'fhearr a bhi in Eirinn!'

05-24-2003, 07:25 PM	#10
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Someone should start a thread called "Elves Aren't Telepathic!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But didn't JRRT develop some kind of Elvish mental communication, called Osanwe Kenta or something similar? __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

05-24-2003, 10:24 PM	#11
Everdawn Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: On the sand dunes outside of Ilium, watching it burn. Posts: 1,291	Elves are telepathic... Meaning that they can communicate without speech. __________________ "Athena, stepping up behind him, visible to no one but Achillies, gripped his red-gold hair. Startled he made a half turn, and he knew her upon the instant for Athena." ~The Iliad~ ~My lord, Éomer~

05-25-2003, 05:31 AM	#12
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Wait...that means we're telepathic, too. I'm not speaking to you, but we're communicating....<P>And I've not actually heard of "Osanwe Kenta", but if it's an Elvish telepathy system, would they be able to "speak" to other races (like Frodo and Boromir)? __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

05-25-2003, 06:02 AM	#13
Lyra Greenleaf The Diaphanous Dryad Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: R toL: 531, past the wild path Posts: 1,180	With Elves mind-to-mind communication, didn't it only apply to Elves? I think that was PJs blunder, not the fact that it existed. As for the Eye, that was all a bit strange. Presumably if you've seen the Eye you're marked in some way for others who have seen it. Or, what the heck, maybe Galadriel is just some sort of all-powerful being. Maybe she is the brains behind Sauron? Wouldn't that be a Hollywood twist! __________________ “Sylphs of the forest,” I whispered. “Spirits of oak, beech and ash. Dryads of Rowan and hazel, hear us. You who have guided and guarded our every footstep, you who have sheltered our growth, we honour you." the Forbidden Link

05-25-2003, 06:15 AM	#14
Feared Half-Elf Wight Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Up a tree. Posts: 213	I bet it's that ring that Galadriel has, Nenya. It makes her mirror work, so she can probably use it for telepathy. __________________ "You will find the Holy Grail in Castle Aaaaaaahhhhhh leans sideways" Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

05-25-2003, 07:51 AM	#15
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think that was PJs blunder, not the fact that it existed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That would imply it was done by mistake when obviously it wasn't. In the movie she is obviously telepathic, get over it. The movie is not the book, I would have figured people would have figured that out by now.<P>Editted to add: I should apologize for the tone of my post (though not the content). I get frustrated with these endless arguments that basically equate to - if it's different from the book than it is a mistake. We all know there are changes from the book to the film and the majority of us seem to realize that some changes were necessary. If you want to argue that a certain change is a mistake, power to you but I think you should give mover reasons than just pointing out the fact that it is a change.<P>Personally, I like the scene when the Fellowship is entering Lothlorien and Galadriel is talking to Frodo. There is a great evil coming into the forest and Galadriel has every reason to be disturbed by it, not the least reason being that she herself is tempted by it. It's creepy and, in my opinion, effectly communicates the unease felt by all parties at that particular moment.<P>H.C.<p>[ May 25, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ] __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

05-26-2003, 04:51 PM	#16
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Actually, a valid argument can be made about Elves being telepathic. If you re-read the last chapter or two of Return of the King, when Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, and the others are traveling to Imladris from Gondor, on the way, Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond and Gandalf speak to each other with their minds. The text specifically says that they seemed like grey statues by the roadside, speaking to each other mind-to-mind. So, it is possible, and since Frodo is the Bearer of the One Ring, and Galadriel is the Bearer of Nenya, they could probably speak mind-to-mind. After all, doesn't the One Ring give the Bearer dominion over the others according to his/her measure? Since Frodo is nowhere in the league of Sauron, the power that he received was the ability to converse with the other Ringbearers mind-to-mind. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

05-27-2003, 03:26 AM	#17
Neniel Sildurien Guest Posts: n/a	OK, let's get things straight.<P>First, Galadriel <B>can</B> communicate with others "telepathically". And I don't just mean Frodo. If I'm not mistaken, in the book it says that Frodo could hear her voice inside his head while she was talking to the others. And later on, Sam told Frodo that Galadriel had been doing the same thing to him too(forgive my english)!<P>Let me give you an advice. In order to understand why Galadriel and the other Elves can communicate like that, try to stop thinking of the movie as a science-fiction one(that goes for the books too!). This is a mysterious world, and the creatures that live in it do not obey to the same rules of Physics as we know it today. It didn't matter whether you were Elf or Human or Dwarf. As long as your spirit, your will was strong enough, you were given the opportunity to "touch" things that lied beyond common perception. Don't forget that, according to the book, Aragorn warned Gandalf not to enter the mines of Moria, for in his heart he felt something wrong was going to happen, especially to Gandalf. And it did! And besides, when Frodo first heard the elven songs in Imladris (Rivendell), he could feel their meaning inside of him although he didn't understand their words.<P>The bottom-line is that any creature of Middle-Earth that was wise, enlightened or powerful enough, could present some kind of "powers". Then, their individuality would give these "powers" a more distinctive form, whether it was the ability to see things with one's magic mirror, the ability to speak to one's heart and mind without actually talking, or the ability to forge a powerful ring that can destroy the world, since we're at it. Most of the elves had such powers because they could live to see many centuries go by (not to mention Elrond, Galadriel and Cirdan). Most of the Kings of Gondor did too, especially Aragorn. And Frodo surely earned that right in his own time, for having carried the Ring. <P>That is how I like to imagine Middle-Earth and I hope there are some that agree with me.

05-27-2003, 11:41 AM	#18
Tarien Ithil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Shade of a Tree Posts: 259	Gee, thanks for your insight, Neniel! <P>You really put effort into that little summary! Thanks for your contribution! <P>Tarien Ithil __________________ “The English-speaking world is divided into those who have read The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and those who are going to read them.” – Sunday Times Crickhollow

05-27-2003, 08:27 PM	#19
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	Yes, Elves in general and Galadriel in particular were definitely telepathic.<P><BR>For detailed views on telepathy in Middle-earth, you can look at an essay Tolkien wrote that is published only in Vinyar Tengwar, a publication of the Elvish Linguistic group within the Mythopoeic Society. It is the July 1998 issue and can be ordered online for just $2.<P>If you search osanwe kenta in the Books forum, you'll pull up several threads that even contain links to the website.<P>According to Tolkien, all sentient beings--including Men and Hobbits--are capable of osanwe, but the Ainur and the Elves have mastered the skill to the highest degree. It is likely in the West that osanwe was used to a much greater degree than in Middle-earth itself.<P>sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.