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Old 03-29-2003, 01:59 PM   #1
Salocin
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Sting Vampires

I only know of 2 references of vampires in ME:
1)Thuringwethil, a Maia messemger of Melkor's. Luthien stole her vampire shape and used it to sneek into Angband.

2)Sauron turns into one after being defeated by Luthien and Huan.

Both these cases happen within the same chapter. Does anyone know of any others, or was it just that all the fashinable Maiar where wearing that form at that point in the First Age.
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Old 03-29-2003, 02:44 PM   #2
VanimaEdhel
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Silmaril

I looked into that a little, and I found myself on greenbooks.theonering.net, where a very similar question was asked.

Quote:
Q: In the Silmarillion, at one point Lúthien turns herself into a "Vampire." Is there any indication in the rest of Tolkien's work as to just what a vampire was supposed to be?

-Anonymous
The ultimate answer turned out to be:

Quote:
[...]I don’t know of any place where Tolkien commented further about vampires in Middle-earth.

Luthien doesn’t quite turn herself into a vampire, but she did take the shape of Thuringwethil, the messenger of Sauron, who flew in the form of a vampire-bat with an iron claw at each joint of its wings.

Here’s the passage from the chapter "Of Beren and Luthien," where Huan and Luthien take the forms of Draugluin and Thuringwethil in passing through Taur-nu-Fuin:

"and he took thence the ghastly wolf-hame of Draugluin, and the bat-fell of Thuringwethil. She was the messenger of Sauron, and she was wont to fly in vampire's form to Angband; and her great fingered wings were bared at each joint's end with an iron claw."
Anthony wrote in with some other pertinent comments:

"There is other mentions of both werewolves and vampires in Silmarillion, though probably not in the manner that we are accustomed from contemporary culture. When Beren and Finrod are taken captive by Sauron, Finrod's followers were devoured by werewolves (not Sauron).
"Tolkien's werewolves generally do not appear to be shape-shifters; they instead seem to be wolves inhabited by malevolent spirits and thereby altered (see the descriptions of Draugluin and Carcaroth).
"There -is- an account of Luthien at least taking the -form- of a vampire. She did this by taking Thuringwhethil's 'shaping-cloak'. What sort of creature Thuringwhethil really was isn't known; my guess would be a fallen Maia. Anyway, the vampires that Tolkien writes of probably have little in common with our present notions."
I think Anthony is completely correct in pointing out that Tolkien’s vampires and werewolves would have little in common with the cinema generated notions we immediately think of today, from Bela Lugosi, Lon Chaney, Jr., to Christopher Lee and others.
I hope that answers your question. As I looked in my books and couldn't find anything else, I figured that the people at theonering.net would probably have a good answer.

[ March 29, 2003: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]
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Old 03-30-2003, 04:04 AM   #3
Iargwath
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Sting

There are no other references of Vampires in Middle earth. The ones you have suggested, are the only ones in which they appear.
Vampires
Thuringwethil
Those references are helpful [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 03-30-2003, 03:43 PM   #4
Mattius
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Sting

Here is a reference i found from a book i own.

Quote:
Whether it was from bird or beast that Melkor bred the evil bloodsucking Bat of Middle-earth, not tale tells. But in the first Age of the Sun, it is told how, in this winged form- made large and armed with talons of steel- Vampire spirits came into service of Melkor the Dark Enemy.

In the Quest of the Silmaril, Thuringwethil, the "woman of secret shadow" was a mighty Vampire and was the chief messenger to travel between Angband and Tol-in-Goauroth, where Sauron ruled the Werewolf legions. When Tol-in-Gaurhoth fell, Sauron himself took on Vampire shape and fled. Once the sorcerous power of Sauron was broken, many evil enchantments were also shattered. The shaping cloak that gave Thuringwethil the power to take Bat-shape fell from her, and the Vampire's dead spirit fell.
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