The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2016, 11:46 AM   #1
Aaron
Haunting Spirit
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: England
Posts: 95
Aaron has just left Hobbiton.
Favourite minor character?

With such a rich world as Middle Earth, there are many characters who only appear fleetingly, who we never get a chance to learn much about, but nevertheless make a massive impression on us as readers.
So, who is your favourite minor character in all of Tolkien's works?

For me, the honour has to go to Queen Beruthiel. I have always been intrigued by the Black Numenoreans, and I love the idea of one of their number rising to become Queen of Gondor. I am just very fascinated by her in general. Why was her marriage childless? If she was cunning enough to try and spy on her enemies, shouldn't she have birthed an heir to ensure her position was untenable?

Just such a fascinating figure, and I wish we knew more about her
__________________
Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 02:01 PM   #2
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,255
Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
How minor is minor? Like mentioned once? Completely obscure? Or a bit player in a longer story? Not knowing the parameters, I'll give you a few:

Eöl - unlike any other Elf Tolkien referred to in his whole corpus. Friendly with Dwarves, dark, malignant, proud.

Halbarad - the only Ranger I cared about besides Aragorn, and you have to go and kill him right off the bat. His death resounded in me as if he was a Game of Thrones character.

The Blue Wizards, Alatar and Pallando - so obscure they didn't even rate separate colors. What, you couldn't afford to give one a green cloak?
__________________
Please visit my newly resurrected blog...The Dark Elf File...a slightly skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Morthoron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 02:18 PM   #3
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 7,306
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
I like my namesake. He tried so hard to reverse the evil of his people, bucking the will of the masses when he believed it would lead them to ruin. I have to admire that kind of nerve and faith.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2016, 07:19 PM   #4
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 2,888
Mithadan has been trapped in the Barrow!
Fatty Bolger, who tried to be brave and heroic with limited success, and yet his acts may have had a major impact upon the outcome of LoTR.
__________________
That which once was shall be again!
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2016, 08:17 AM   #5
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,255
Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithadan View Post
Fatty Bolger, who tried to be brave and heroic with limited success, and yet his acts may have had a major impact upon the outcome of LoTR.
Plus, he gained notoriety as a best-selling author. His Lockholes Diet Plan was really popular in Bree, Buckland, Archet and Combe.
__________________
Please visit my newly resurrected blog...The Dark Elf File...a slightly skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Morthoron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2016, 08:21 AM   #6
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 7,306
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
Plus, he gained notoriety as a best-selling author. His Lockholes Diet Plan was really popular in Bree, Buckland, Archet and Combe.
From Fatty to Fitty!
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 03:47 AM   #7
Andsigil
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Andsigil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin
Posts: 685
Andsigil is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Cirdan.
__________________
Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.
Andsigil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 08:01 AM   #8
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 691
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Húrin the Tall, Warden of the Keys.

Not a favourite character per se but an excellent example of Professor Tolkien's infinite capacity to furnish his narratives with realistic detail.

Also, regardless of what its actual responsibilities entailed, "Warden of the Keys" is an absolutely terrific title that fires the imagination.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 08:54 AM   #9
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,545
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Pretty much all the dwarves.

Sadly, most of them rate as minor characters.
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 02:24 PM   #10
Aaron
Haunting Spirit
 
Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: England
Posts: 95
Aaron has just left Hobbiton.
I have also found myself really intrigued by Bolg.
Especially as Tolkien, rather than painting the Orcs and Goblins as completely evil, noted how the dwarves matched them for cruelty during their war. Add to that the humiliating nature of his father's death - head on a pike with a coin-purse stuffed between the teeth - and you have a character who has something of a legitimate grievance against Thorin. Especially after the death of the Great Goblin.

When rereading The Hobbit, I must confess that a certain part of me roots for the Orcs, and isn't too sad when Bolg is eventually revenged on Thorin, given how he acted after assuming the Kingship.
__________________
Remember, stranger, passing by: As you are now, so once was I. As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare thyself to follow me.
Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2016, 02:53 PM   #11
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 7,306
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I have also found myself really intrigued by Bolg.
Especially as Tolkien, rather than painting the Orcs and Goblins as completely evil, noted how the dwarves matched them for cruelty during their war. Add to that the humiliating nature of his father's death - head on a pike with a coin-purse stuffed between the teeth - and you have a character who has something of a legitimate grievance against Thorin. Especially after the death of the Great Goblin.
Not to co-opt the thread, but let's recall the reason the Dwarves dishonored the body of Azog that way. Thror (the recognized Heir of Durin), got a little crazy and wanted to tour the old family home in Moria. Hardly an invasion force, but he got his head lopped off for it, and his companion was insulted before having to watch the orcs hack Thror's body into pieces for birds to eat. I can't find any sympathy for Azog or Bolg.
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2016, 06:14 AM   #12
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 678
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Silmaril Nerdanel the Wise

Among my favourites has to be Nerdanel the Wise, Noldorian Elf, sculptress, wife of Fëanor, and mother of seven. This is what we can read about her:

While still in early youth Fëanor wedded Nerdanel, a maiden of the Noldor; at which many wondered, for she was not among the fairest of her people. But she was strong, and free of mind, and filled with the desire of knowledge. In her youth she loved to wander far from the dwellings of the Noldor, either beside the long shores of the Sea or in the hills; and thus she and Fëanor had met and were companions in many journeys. Her father, Mathan, was a great smith, and among those of the Noldor most dear to the heart of Aulë. Of Mathan Nerdanel learned much of crafts that women of the Noldor seldom used: the making of things of metal and stone. She made images, some of the Valar in their forms visible, and many others of men and women of the Eldar, and these were so like that their friends, if they knew not her art, would speak to them; but many things she wrought also of her own thought in shapes strong and strange but beautiful.

She also was firm of will, but she was slower and more patient than Fëanor, desiring to understand minds rather than to master them. When in company with others she would often sit still listening to their words, and watching their gestures and the movement of their faces. Her mood she bequeathed in part to some of her sons, but not to all. Seven sons she bore to Fëanor, and it is not recorded in the histories of old that any others of the Eldar had so many children. With her wisdom at first she restrained Fëanor when the fire of his heart burned too hot; but his later deeds grieved her and they became estranged.
(The History of Middle-earth: 10. Morgoth’s Ring, (London: HarperCollins Publishers, 1994), pp. 272-3)

A most impressive person, I think.
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2016, 11:32 PM   #13
IxnaY AintsaY
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 80
IxnaY AintsaY has just left Hobbiton.
It's hard to pick one. I guess I'd say Erendis right now, though I'm not sure she's truly minor, given that she's a central character in an important story. Other favorites, more obviously minor except the last...

Osse
Mablung of the Heavy Hand
Gwindor
Androg
Lobelia
Garm, the hound from Farmer Giles
Gorbag and Shagrat
Elfhelm
The Warden of the Houses of Healing
Dain Ironfoot
The young Aragorn II.
__________________
From without the World, though all things may be forethought in music or foreshown in vision from afar, to those who enter verily into Eä each in its time shall be met at unawares as something new and unforetold.
IxnaY AintsaY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 10:28 PM   #14
Marwhini
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 144
Marwhini has just left Hobbiton.
There are Minor Characters in Tolkien's works???

Seriously, though.... I cannot think of many that I could narrow it down sufficiently.

Obviously... my Namesake (Marhwini), Marhari, and Vidugavia, Vidumani, Vidumavi, etc.

I just realized that I misspelled my own damned User Name... It should be Marhwini... I wonder if I can correct that. How embarrassing.

But the Northmen of Rhovanion (Foradan or Adanforodh) would be among those I would like further details regarding.

I am doing a sort of Fictional Historical account of the Wars of Gondor and the Wainriders in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries of the Third Age, beginning with the Wainriders invasion of Rhovanion in 1850, just after Narmacil II's ascension to the Throne from Telumehtar Umbardacil's death that year (the First Attacks were not until 1851, but they would have had to crossed into Rhovanion in late 1850).

And I would not be unhappy to have more information concerning both the Easterlings (of the First Age, and the Second Age or Third Age) of all types.

During the First Age, we have names for the 'Easterlings' taken directly from Viking names (or, more specifically, Jomsviking names).

The Anglo-Saxons of England even called the Viking Invaders of the 9th - 11th Centuries "Easterlings."

And even among the Norse and Scandinavians themselves the Jomsvikings (And Rus) were "Easterlings."

Later in the Second and Third Ages, the Easterlings seem to have characteristics similar to the Hunnic, Bulgar, Magyar, or other "Steppe Nomads" that invaded Christian Europe, not the least the Mongols, Timurids, or Khurasanis, Kwarismians.

And one of the characteristics of some of these groups is that they carries their houses (yurts) around on Great Huge Wagons (Wains).

And the Chinese of this period still used large Chariots, which Tolkien even mentions (which he would have known of) the Easterlings using. The Mongols even had such Chinese Troops in their armies at times.

Even though that is just speculation, it is curious that there are a small smattering of suggestions that Tolkien was thinking of these peoples when thinking of Easterlings...

And I would LOVE to have seen him take more consideration of these peoples.

The Southrons/Haradrim, and Khandirim would likewise have provided a rich tapestry of peoples to enrich Middle-earth.

Tolkien at least gives us a word for the people of Khand: Variags, which is another spelling of Varyag.

Some people have erroneously attributed this word to mean "Vikings."

What it IS is a description by the Byzantines of the Pagans they would hire as the Royal Guard: Varangians, whom were referred to also as "Varyags."

Varyag is a term to refer to the Kievan Rus employed by the Byzantines. They have an appearance that is similar to that Tolkien used for the people's of Khand (shortish Men, with broad shoulders, and dark beards similar to those of dwarves). But it can also apply to the peoples of the Magyars, Pechengs, and Khazar Khanate also employed by the Byzantines for the Varangian Guard.

That is an awful lot of speculation for just one word. But Tolkien did often use single words for just such indications.

As for the Haradrim, we have just the suggestion of the "Far-Haradrim," described as "Troll-Men." They are described as great Black-skinned Warriors, with Red Tongues. This sounds very much like the description of a Sub-Saharan Black African. The Sub-Saharan Africans lived in the "Far-South" of Africa (at least compared to the Mediterranean regions of Africa). And in "Near-Africa" we have living the Islamic Maghreb. Where during the Middle Ages (8th century - present) the Muslims conquered the Christian remnants of the Roman Empire.

In Middle-earth, Harad represents the regions of the world where Sauron corrupted the inhabitants, who previously had been ruled by the Númenóreans.

So... We have only slight evidence, but there does seem to be an eerily similar context to the histories involved.

And while Tolkien did not do "Allegory" (at least not intentionally), this isn't an allegorical comparison (it isn't making an outright moral statement). But it does seem to be somewhat derivative, rather than Allegorical.

But one does wonder, given that the languages Tolkien invented are themselves derived from real-world languages (Saxon, Gothic, Norse, Finnish, Hebrew, Hurrian, Akkadian, etc.) that perhaps the civilizations themselves were derived from real-world counterparts?

It would be interesting to explore the Dwarves in that context as well. But it would have been nicer if Tolkien had left something more explicit than linguistic clues, as helpful as those are.

MB
Marwhini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 02:29 AM   #15
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 2,847
Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
I wouldn't say derived, Marhwini, maybe rather inspired, and not in such a way that you can always map ME peoples on real world civilisations 1:1. In some cases more than one real world ingredient goes into Tolkien's inventions, e.g. while the Rohirric language in the book is clearly Old English the real Angle-Saxons never had a cavalry, and Tolkien says in Appendix E of LotR that we shouldn't assume the material culture of Rohan to resemble that of the Angle-Saxons. The question you discuss here is interesting and would IMO certainly merit its own thread.

On topic, I find myself wondering about the characters in LotR that only have one or two lines - people like Ceorl, Hirgon, Ingold: what were their lives like, did they have families, how did those who survived the war fare in the Fourth Age?

Of the minor characters that were more developped I'd like to mention
- Beregond, an example of the common Men of Gondor at their finest,
- Ioreth, a realistic female character who is neither young nor beautiful nor powerful but thoroughly likable,
- Nellas, the elven girl who overcame her shyness to bear witness in Thingol's court for a man who had forgotten she even existed.

But I think my all-time favourite minor character has to be the old man who sat on the threshold of the Paths of the Dead and died after telling Brego and Baldor "The way is shut." That passage always gives me shivers.
__________________
The 21st century is when everything changes, you've got to be ready.
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 09:07 AM   #16
Marwhini
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 144
Marwhini has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchwife View Post
I wouldn't say derived, Marhwini, maybe rather inspired, and not in such a way that you can always map ME peoples on real world civilisations 1:1. In some cases more than one real world ingredient goes into Tolkien's inventions, e.g. while the Rohirric language in the book is clearly Old English the real Angle-Saxons never had a cavalry, and Tolkien says in Appendix E of LotR that we shouldn't assume the material culture of Rohan to resemble that of the Angle-Saxons. The question you discuss here is interesting and would IMO certainly merit its own thread.

On topic, I find myself wondering about the characters in LotR that only have one or two lines - people like Ceorl, Hirgon, Ingold: what were their lives like, did they have families, how did those who survived the war fare in the Fourth Age?

Of the minor characters that were more developped I'd like to mention
- Beregond, an example of the common Men of Gondor at their finest,
- Ioreth, a realistic female character who is neither young nor beautiful nor powerful but thoroughly likable,
- Nellas, the elven girl who overcame her shyness to bear witness in Thingol's court for a man who had forgotten she even existed.

But I think my all-time favourite minor character has to be the old man who sat on the threshold of the Paths of the Dead and died after telling Brego and Baldor "The way is shut." That passage always gives me shivers.
I did not mean to suggest an absolute correspondence (and even said so).

But Beregond is an example of the minor Characters of Gondor that fit the model of those of the North I am interested in. Only Beregond applies to the "normal" Humans of the lands surrounding the White Mountains and Ithilien (What Tolkien originally called the "Hill Men."

He'd be a good one to have more background into his family, and society.

MB
Marwhini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 09:49 AM   #17
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 691
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marwhini View Post
Later in the Second and Third Ages, the Easterlings seem to have characteristics similar to the Hunnic, Bulgar, Magyar, or other "Steppe Nomads" that invaded Christian Europe, not the least the Mongols, Timurids, or Khurasanis, Kwarismians.
I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marwhini View Post
Varyag is a term to refer to the Kievan Rus employed by the Byzantines. They have an appearance that is similar to that Tolkien used for the people's of Khand (shortish Men, with broad shoulders, and dark beards similar to those of dwarves). But it can also apply to the peoples of the Magyars, Pechengs, and Khazar Khanate also employed by the Byzantines for the Varangian Guard.
I see this sometimes, but I don't believe that there's any evidence that the dwarf-like Men seen in Gondor in the War of the Ring were identified with Khand.

The text states the following:

"countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before. Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem."

Khand is never mentioned. I only raise this because I get the impression that these "dwarf-like" men are often identified with Khand, but I don't know why. Khand was quite close to Mordor, and thus quite close to the West, while these Dwarvish Men seem to be from some far region of Rhûn with which the Men of Gondor were unfamiliar. The text even says later "Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand," as if the axe-bearing Men and the Variags were different.

That's not to say that bearded Men with axes don't correspond quite closely with Byzantine Varyags or medieval Russian heavy infantry (they do); I just don't think the common assertion that they are meant to be from Khand is supported by the text.

EDIT: Nonetheless I think this does function as potential evidence that there was a strong cultural influence from the Dwarves among certain Easterlings, which would make sense given that the Dwarves appear to have dwelt in somewhat greater numbers in the East than in the West.
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.

Last edited by Zigûr; 07-02-2016 at 09:55 AM.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 02:43 PM   #18
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 7,122
Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitchwife View Post
But I think my all-time favourite minor character has to be the old man who sat on the threshold of the Paths of the Dead and died after telling Brego and Baldor "The way is shut." That passage always gives me shivers.
Hoho! That's a hard one to beat. Really great passage!

The thing about minor characters in the legendarium is that unless there's one that REALLY fascinates you for some reason, there are too many, even among favourite ones, to even properly recollect all of them. Between three-and-a-bit Ages and many countries, there are just too many to choose from. Personally, I can't say I have a favourite, but there are some whose passages I enjoy reading. Gilraen is one such. Also, Aerin from COH. From the men, I liked the messengers - Ceorl and Ohtar among others.

By the way, I don't think I've said a proper hello yet. Welcome to the Downs, Marhwini!
__________________
- These taxes, they are like sacrifices to tribal gods?
- Well, roughly speaking, but paying taxes is more painful.
Doctor Who: The Sun Makers
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 04:32 PM   #19
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 2,847
Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Thanks for reminding me of my manners, G55. Welcome to the Downs, Marhwini! Help yourself to a skullful of cobwebs and condensed mist and enjoy beingd dead.

Looking at your list of marginalized Mannish peoples of the East and South I feel it's a pity that they were all relegated to the status of tools of the Enemy, it would have been interesting to learn more about their culture and history (although, to be fair, Professor Tolkien already gave us more than one man's share of worldbuilding, and to ask for more seems a bit greedy) - but on the bright side that leaves us so much freedom to invent stuff for fan fiction and RPGs.

I'd like to add the people of Dorwinion to your list, of whom we know little more than that they made very good wine and were for a while subjects of Gondor. They were probably related to the Woodmen of Rhovanion and the Northmen of Dale, but given the geographical position of their country it seems reasonable to assume that they had some admixture of Easterling blood (or at least that was the assumption I made when playing a Dorwinian character with a faux-Slavic accent in an RPG in days of yore ).

Aerin! Yes, Aerin was a bloody great character. Also Andróg, the outlaw in Túrin's gang, and Mîm the Dwarf (but he's not really minor, is he?) and of course Sador Labadal whom I forgot to mention up there although he's really one of my favourite minor characters in all of Tolkien. The Narn is full of interesting characters, isn't it?
__________________
The 21st century is when everything changes, you've got to be ready.
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 06:29 PM   #20
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 2,888
Mithadan has been trapped in the Barrow!
Marhwini, if you want to change the spelling of your screen name, try reaching out to Barrow-Wight. Welcome to the Downs!

It's been a long while since I read it, but you might want to peek at Peoples of Middle Earth, HoME 12. In particular, the two chapters of Tolkien's brief attempt to write an LoTR sequel.
__________________
That which once was shall be again!
Mithadan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 03:38 PM   #21
Marwhini
Wight
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 144
Marwhini has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithadan View Post
Marhwini, if you want to change the spelling of your screen name, try reaching out to Barrow-Wight. Welcome to the Downs!
Thank you.... I will do that. In my haste I transposed two characters (in my own writing on the subject of the Northmen of Rhovanion, I have discovered that I do this about ½ the time I write the name "Marwhini"). And I have discovered a few others where I make similar mistakes (Thurwingethil being another, where I write "Thuringwethil").

And thank you for the welcome.

I have been a Tolkien fanatic for a very long time, and perhaps take his work too seriously (so seriously that I have begun to work out actual metaphysics that would give rise to physics, chemistry, and biology - etc. basically operationalized sciences - to account for the functioning of the different beings, creatures, plants, geography, etc. in Middle-earth that we take to be "supernatural" - Tolkien's commentary on them are that most were "natural" parts of Middle-earth). Thus my other post on "The Metaphysics" (and Ontology) "Of Middle-earth."

I understand that there is an actual Tolkien academic here, as well (Zigûr)? It would be interesting to get his take on these subjects.

Quote:
It's been a long while since I read it, but you might want to peek at Peoples of Middle Earth, HoME 12. In particular, the two chapters of Tolkien's brief attempt to write an LoTR sequel.
I have the complete set of HoM-e (two sets in fact, the Hard-Bound, which I got as they were first released, starting back in the 1980s, and a soft-bound set, which I use for my primary research). And it is from it that I have begun a sort of emendation of the History of the Northmen, their relationship with Gondor and the Second Age Númenóreans.

I need to read it again, as I have not read the works concerning anything but the Silmarillion for some time (working on the Metaphysical Foundations for Ëa, Arda, and Middle-earth - as well as it's topology.... I have an idea for how to get a Flat Middle-earth that has gravity that works the same way as it does in our universe, yet which does not collapse into a sphere).

But directly to the issue of minor characters.... I can't think of a minor character I could call a "favorite" as ANY minor character chosen I could easily rattle off hundreds of things I would want to know about them.

They are all my "favorites" so to speak. Tolkien usually seems to have put as much thought into naming his minor characters as he did into his major characters, indicating that he did not really consider them to be "minor" as another author might.

MB
Marwhini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 05:04 PM   #22
Pitchwife
Wight of the Old Forest
 
Pitchwife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 2,847
Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Pitchwife is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marwhini View Post
And I have discovered a few others where I make similar mistakes (Thurwingethil being another, where I write "Thuringwethil").
The latter version, the one in quotation marks, is actually the correct one.

It shows in your posts that you've immersed yourself in Tolkien's work and word head over heels, and if you take them a little too seriously by your own account that's considered a virtue rather than a vice here. There used to be quite a few Tolkien scholars in this place, most of whom have become rather treeish since. The whole forum has become a lot quieter than it was when I joined, but so much the greater is the pleasure to see a new member with a real passion for Tolkien. Once again, welcome!
__________________
The 21st century is when everything changes, you've got to be ready.
Pitchwife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 05:44 PM   #23
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,255
Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Morthoron is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marwhini View Post
I have been a Tolkien fanatic for a very long time, and perhaps take his work too seriously...
Well, fortunately we don't take Tolkien very seriously around here. No heated arguments. No nearly coming to fisticuffs over minor canonic issues. No calling anyone blithering idiots for the inanities they disembogue like a retched font of imbecility.

*Pauses*

Hey, why are you all looking at me like that?
__________________
Please visit my newly resurrected blog...The Dark Elf File...a slightly skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Morthoron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 09:57 PM   #24
Galadriel55
Blossom of Dwimordene
 
Galadriel55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 7,122
Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Galadriel55 is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marwhini View Post
Thank you.... I will do that. In my haste I transposed two characters (in my own writing on the subject of the Northmen of Rhovanion, I have discovered that I do this about ½ the time I write the name "Marwhini"). And I have discovered a few others where I make similar mistakes (Thurwingethil being another, where I write "Thuringwethil").
Hey, I do that all the time when I read things in a rush. Parks are full of conversations (conservations), and philosophy class had no casualty (causality). When I first joined, I misread a couple Downers' names because of the letter switching, and I still haven't fully erased them from my mind. In Tolkien, I spent the first couple years of reading LOTR thinking that Redhorn is called Baranzibar (vs Barazinbar), just to name one. I'm not dyslexic, but I also have a tendency to switch letters when I read fast, especially if there are unfamiliar words.

Back to the topic, I completely agree with you about the minor characters being as important in shaping the story and the world as the major ones. For one thing, if we didn't meet a few minor but representative individuals in every place the Fellowship passed, all these places wouldn't feel as real. It makes you aware that there are many people beyond the immediate story, and you relate to them and want to know more about their lives.
__________________
- These taxes, they are like sacrifices to tribal gods?
- Well, roughly speaking, but paying taxes is more painful.
Doctor Who: The Sun Makers
Galadriel55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2016, 08:02 AM   #25
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 678
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
White-Hand Welcome to the Downs!

Marwhini, I'd like to add my voice to those others and say, 'Welcome to the Downs!'
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2016, 08:30 AM   #26
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 678
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Thumbs up Sador Labadal

Pitchwife, like you I enjoyed very much the character of Sador Labadal, and his interactions with Túrin. It's the only time in the context of Middle-earth that we see an adult Man trying to explain to a child, whose little and beloved sister has died, the big issue of what happens when Men die.
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.