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Old 02-02-2004, 04:46 PM   #1
Keeper of Dol Guldur
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Sting What if . . . Glorfindel?

Okay, the last what if turned up a decent amount of people agreeing, and futile as it is, this is the best place to get over gripes with the movies and to do so, I've decided to propose alternate takes on scenes that everybody practically wants to have happened anyway. But anyway, last time was the Grey Company - a little more pressing and important and less talked about so far, but this time it's a what if for Glorfindel.<P>"What's this, a Ranger caught off his guard?" said a slightly sarcastic voice. Aragorn felt cold steel press against his neck. He glanced up. A white glow fell on his face and twinkled in his eyes. He grinned at the newcomer.<P>Frodo lay struggling, freezing, but something in him made him look to his side, and then he saw a white light coming closer, an elf stepped out from that light (kinda like Gandalf in Fangorn later, aye?).<BR> "Who is he?" asked Pippin.<BR> "He's an elf," said Sam.<BR> "Yes he is an elf, said the voice of Strider from behind Sam, "and the last of his people in Middle Earth. Glorfindel is a reminder to us of the glory of the elder years, lord of elves, and he has been my friend for many years." <P>Glorfindel looked down at Frodo. "He is fading, Aragorn. I must get him to the house of Elrond, this wound is beyond our help."<P>Glorfindel hops onto Asfaloth, his deep blue cloak reflecting his inner luster. Aragorn lifts Frodo in front of him. "Ride hard, ride fast."<BR> "Asfaloth will outmatch any nazgul steed!"<BR> "NORO LIM ASFALOTH" and the horse leapt to.<BR> Sam stood, speechless.<P>As Glorfindel rode, he felt the presence of the Nazgul as they closed in over the long miles. The wraithes closed in - he drew his elvish sword (a standard second age blade), rode on. The wraithes drew closer yet - we see the Witch-King through Frodo's eyes, no longer a blank face, there is a pale face deep beneath the black cloak, a grim face. The gauntlet reaching towards him bears a ring. Asfaloth leaps forward and escapes the grasp of the wraithes, which we now see (having the 'viewpoint' of both Frodo and the ethereal Glorfindel) the wraithes as they are in the world of shadows, but with black cloaks on as well. Glorfindel seems to glow brighter as he crosses the ford. He stops, preparing to speak the words for only Elrond to hear. The King Wraith rides forward. Frodo screams;<P>"GO BACK TO MORDOR!"<BR> "GIVE US THE HALFLING, ELF."<BR>Glorfindel glows even brighter.<BR> "IF YOU WANT HIM, COME CLAIM HIM!" The Witch-King moves forward, the other Nazgul come a bit slower. Unlike with Arwen saying it, Glorfindel's threat doesn't seem idle. He whispers the words . . .<P>The riders are in the water, when we hear a spellchant of letting loose the river from the valley upstream - the voice of Elrond, it is all Frodo can hear as he stares at the Witch-King. Then it is joined by another voice, as the water crashes down the river in the shapes of horses charging; an old, kind, familiar voice, displaying a power he had never heard it use. The Nazgul turned around, attempted to ride back to the other side, but Aragorn and the Hobbits were there - they set fire to the nearby brush - the horses reared and ran back into the stream. While the eight had turned back, the Witch-King was charging Frodo, then the power of Hithaeglir hit the wraithes, and they were washed away from that valley . . . Far away. Three elves ran down the path to meet Glorfindel and Frodo; two wearing garb not disimilar to Aragorn's, if not less subtle, and a woman of such beauty, none could compare her to anything but Luthien of old. <BR> "We must get him to father," she said.<BR>Elladan and Elrohir lifted Frodo gently and placed him on a bier, with Glorfindel riding behind them, but Arwen looked across the river towards Aragorn; their eyes meet across the surging waters, and he looked toward Frodo; she turned toward Frodo . . .<BR> "What grace has given me, let it pass to him," she whispered to herself, and looked back toward Aragorn.<P>And so, we'd get her giving Frodo her gift, seeing Aragorn, and have Glorfindel - AND set up Elladan and Elrohir for later parts. The lines would practically write themselves, the ones that don't stay the same or switch characters in the context.<P>Kills two birds with one stone, yet again.
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Old 02-02-2004, 04:58 PM   #2
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What a most excellent idea -- except for one thing. Even though Elladan and Elrohir and Glorfindel are important in the books, you can't just go and introduce extra characters in a movie. See, relative to the plot, Glorfindel and the brothers of Arwen are not important in the flow of the story. Now, I'm no movie expert, but I have seen enough movies to know that they don't just go and introduce characters that never appear again/don't help the plot. Elladan and Elrohir were in other parts? It's been too long since I have read the books then because I don't remember. Also this way they'd have to pay and find another three actors... <P>What would have been better would to have had Frodo going across the stream like he did in the book. That has always saddened me they didn't do it that way...*sigh*<P>But if you look at it this way, PJ also killed two birds with one stone: He introudeced Arwen and got Frodo across the river.<P>All in all though, a very nice redoal of it. *sigh* And just for the record, I like your idea better, but I can also see why PJ didn't do it the way he did.<P>Cheers!<BR>Istawen
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Old 02-02-2004, 06:20 PM   #3
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Aragorn and the Hobbits were there<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just a minor continuity error... If Glorfindel and Frodo had been riding as if, well, they were being chased by Black Riders, how do horse-less Aragorn + 3 hobbits who have set off a bit later manage to catch up to be able to start burning stuff?<P>I also really didn't like PJ's tendency to have light actually shining from the characters (Yeah! We're elves! The sun shines out of our behinds!), so I'd be more supportive of your proposal if it didn't have the whole glowing thing.<P>But apart from that, it is a good way to get Glorfindel in. That's if Glorfindel is needed, and can't just be glorfindelled.
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Old 02-02-2004, 06:22 PM   #4
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I like that idea a lot. It would work really well if you used the other idea as well, the Grey Company at Helm's Deep one. It would set the scene nicely for that. It would only work if you changed Helm's Deep though - otherwise Elladan, Elrohir, and Glorfindel would never show up again. I don't know where Glorfindel would fit in again anyway though.<P>As Imladris said, I would also like it if they had had it like it was in the book; Frodo's words there are so powerful (See my sig). But they did all right for the movie, and as a whole it turned out pretty well.
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Old 02-02-2004, 06:35 PM   #5
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Sting

Brillint as usual!<P><BR>Now why couldn't we sneak you onto the screenplay team, eh?
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:00 PM   #6
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"What's this, a Ranger caught off his guard?" said a slightly sarcastic voice. Aragorn felt cold steel press against his neck. He glanced up. A white glow fell on his face and twinkled in his eyes. He grinned at the newcomer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It'd be nice if we could find a way to avoid the silly 'Ranger caught off his guard' line, but it sounds good to me...for the most part.
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Old 02-02-2004, 09:52 PM   #7
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Sting

As long as we don't have any hand-holding going on, or any sort of "manly comforts," I think we should be fine. <P>No need to have the gay rights activists and the Tolkien purists up in arms against each other.
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:59 AM   #8
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What bothered me much more than the omission of glorious Glorfindel was the fact that they made such a weakling of Frodo throughout! He's supposed to ride alone on Asfaloth! I should have loved to hear him call: "By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair! You shall get neither the Ring nor me!"
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Old 02-03-2004, 12:46 PM   #9
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Elladan and Elrohir were in other parts?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes they were in other parts later on in TTT and ROTK.
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Old 02-03-2004, 03:29 PM   #10
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What would have been better would to have had Frodo going across the stream like he did in the book. That has always saddened me they didn't do it that way...*sigh*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree with Imaladris and Guinevere. I would have liked to seen a little hobbit on a huge white horse standing off the Nazgul. But alas, it was not meant to be. Good scene though.
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:06 PM   #11
Keeper of Dol Guldur
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Sting

Yeah, I just sort of literally re-replaced Arwen with Glorfindel, used existing movie footage but of course it would be better if it followed the book perfectly (if not in a snipped, shortened, movie sort of way). Glorfindel could have been back with Aragorn and the Hobbits, and Frodo make his challenge. <P>Elladan and Elrohir would have thus been set up for the parts I gave them in TTT and ROTK, in the last "What if . . ." and Arwen still would've been more involved than in the books - a lot more. Of all the qualms, Frodo's strength there seems to be the most wanted - yeah, the Barrow sword (Dunadan sword, whatever the movie called it), could have broken, giving Bilbo a reason to hand over Sting to a new master.<P>I really think it would've been neat if the Wraith King made a last rush for Frodo before the waters took him.<P>As for the 'Barrow Blade' itself, maybe that bit could be explained in "What if . . . Tom Bombadil"! (Anyway, I think PJ could pull off the part and not worry about dinky little 'cameos'). Until next time, Barrow Wights.<P>Oh wait;<P>Continuity error yeah, but how did it happen in the book? I'm sure it records it somewhere, how quickly Aragorn and team must have moved, but honestly he should have been labelled Wingfoot right then - the question is how did the others come along. But that is a topic meant for The Books.
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:48 PM   #12
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Sting

Your idea makes sense, but possibly not in context. Obviously it would've been better just to include Glorfindel in the scenes he's in rather than painting him over Arwen or some other random elf. It would've been altogether easier if he just cast a good Glorfindel and have him make single guest appearances in the EE DVDs, like the Mouth of Sauron, who didn't make any appearance in the theater version of RotK, but will be highly distinguishable in the Extended Edition DVD.<p>[ 6:49 PM February 03, 2004: Message edited by: Kransha ]
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Old 02-03-2004, 06:23 PM   #13
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But if you look at it this way, PJ also killed two birds with one stone: He introudeced Arwen and got Frodo across the river.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Indeed, <B>Imladris</B>, I had no problem whatsoever with Arwen carrying Frodo across the river in this way, but I should have loved to see Frodo <I>do</I> something while he was being carried...mainly the very words <B>Guinevere</B> (The Banshee of Camelot! Great title! ) notes:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I should have loved to hear him call: "By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair! You shall get neither the Ring nor me!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But I'm sure everyone knows just how I feel about it by now! No Glorfindel is really required for this, just a little bit of awareness and will on Frodo's part...but I always have my trusty paperback in times of need! <P>Cheers,<BR>Lyta
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Old 02-03-2004, 07:15 PM   #14
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If Glorfindel and Frodo had been riding as if, well, they were being chased by Black Riders, how do horse-less Aragorn + 3 hobbits who have set off a bit later manage to catch up to be able to start burning stuff?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Horse-less, yes; but they still had Bill the Pony! <p>[ 8:15 PM February 03, 2004: Message edited by: Mad Baggins ]
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Old 02-05-2004, 02:50 PM   #15
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I thought the way the film did it was one of the more inspired changes. They had the problem of a character that plays no part in the plot or even appears again and the dilemma of how to involve Arwen in the story without inventing too much stuff and interfering with the plot.
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