The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2001, 02:13 PM   #41
Gilthalion
Hobbitus Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: South Farthing
Posts: 635
Gilthalion has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hobbitus Emeritus
Posts: 582
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

I don't think it is a matter so much of POWER as of the rejection of it, the lack of POWER that the ring held on such a one as Bombadil.

Could Tom Bombadil have been awakened before the other men (assuming for argument's sake he was an unfallen man)?

I'm afraid that the most recent quotes do not clear the matter up at all! Though I'm happy that it seems to make my musings less radical than I thought.

<center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>
__________________
Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS.
Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures!
Gilthalion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2001, 02:58 PM   #42
GandaIf The White
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 267
GandaIf The White has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 354
</TD><TD><img src=http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/HdR/crewmckel.JPG WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

If Tolkien specifically stated that he was an enigma, I dont see what the discussion is for. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Could someone tell me where this is said though?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Could Tom Bombadil have been awakened before the other men.<hr></blockquote>

He could have woken with the first men.. and if they lived until they wanted to die maybe Bombadil could have left and travelled off by himself before Melkor got to them - The Fall - The Gift of Iluvatar.



"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>
GandaIf The White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2001, 05:05 PM   #43
Gilthalion
Hobbitus Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: South Farthing
Posts: 635
Gilthalion has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hobbitus Emeritus
Posts: 585
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

#1 An enigma can be either a riddle, or something of hidden meaning (which means it has a solution), or something utterly inexplicable. I've always thought the context of that word's use meant that there could be a solution. But the statement itself was rather enigmatic (if memory serves). Perhaps there truly is no solution.

#2 If Bombadil were awakened with the other Men, then he could not be &quot;Eldest.&quot;

For my supposition (Bombadil represents Unfallen Man) to have any validity, Bombadil would have to have been a Man awakened before anyone else was stirring in Middle-earth.

I've never heard a whisper of this being in the Legendarium! But this discussion has done nothing to dislodge the idea from my skull! The above quoted texts cast a lot of light on the subject. It's certainly been an interesting discussion!

<center><font face=verdana size=1> http://www.barrowdowns.comBarrow-Downs</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgardner2000Bare Bones</a>~http://pub41.ezboard.com/btarostineruhirTar Ost-in-Eruhir</a>~http://www.geocities.com/robertwgard...ilthalion.htmlGrand Adventures</a>~http://www.barrowdowns.com/fanfichobbits.aspThe Hobbits</a>~http://www.tolkientrail.comTolkien Trail</a> </center></p>
__________________
Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS.
Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures!
Gilthalion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2001, 05:59 AM   #44
Glorfindel the resurected
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 5
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

Gandalf, It was said in a letter from Tolkien to his original proof reader in 1954
&quot;even in a mythological Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)&quot;

</p>
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2001, 07:45 PM   #45
GandaIf The White
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 267
GandaIf The White has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 367
</TD><TD><img src=http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/HdR/crewmckel.JPG WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

What do you think of this?

Tom Bambodil
Master of the Old Wood

Tom Bombadil, or Iarwain Ben-Adar, was indeed one of the Maiar.
He was chosen by Yavanna in the Spring of Arda to be caretaker of the wild wood which covered most Middle-earth at that time. He was also the first of the Maiar to enter Ea.
Within the boundaries of the Old Forest which he called home, he was amongst the most powerful of the Maiar spirits; indeed his power exceeded that of Sauron (though Sauron would be considered his equal when wearing the One
Ring). Only Eonwe and Arien held greater power than Tom, and it was this great strength which allowed him to resist the One Ring.
Remember that Sauron did not put all of his essence into the Ring, only part of it, and that part not sufficient to overpower the chief Maiar of Yavanna's people.
This is an interesting subject, of which little is known beyond what I have outlined above.



"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>
GandaIf The White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2001, 09:04 PM   #46
obloquy
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
obloquy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 934
obloquy has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to obloquy
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 70
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

Is there any textual basis for your post? What brought you to your conclusions?



</p>
obloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2001, 11:57 AM   #47
Voronwe
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Gondolin
Posts: 413
Voronwe has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 249
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

I believe this comes from http://www.flex.net/~layton2/encyc/maiar.html#Tomwww.flex.net/~layton2/enc...r.html#Tom</a>

I think it is mostly, if not all, conjecture. I don't know of anywhere where it is specifically stated that Tom is a maia.


-Voronw
<font size="2">Down the sunlit breath of Day's fiery death
He sped from Westerland.</p>
__________________
"If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- Ren Descartes
Voronwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2001, 04:26 PM   #48
obloquy
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
obloquy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 934
obloquy has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to obloquy
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 71
</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

I'm pretty sure you're right.

Although I do believe that just because Tom is an enigma doesn't mean his spirit can't be one of an already-defined nature. Not Maia, though. <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

</p>
obloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2001, 05:42 PM   #49
GandaIf The White
Shade of Carn Dm
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 267
GandaIf The White has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dm
Posts: 369
</TD><TD><img src=http://www.herr-der-ringe-film.de/HdR/crewmckel.JPG WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Why is enigma pretty much tied with maia and earth spiri

Voronwe how did you know? <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> I like to research sites and see what people have to say.. and then I run it by other people to get there input. Im not trying to make anyone look bad or good, I just want to learn.

I was curious about the article because the author seemed sure that he was right.. and speaking with confidence can get my attention even if I dont beleive it is right, which I didnt.

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."</p>
GandaIf The White is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:14 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.