Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup

[Morthoron]

Send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It's trolls for me.

++William (with apologies to John Donne)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

phantom actually summed up all the important things about William, and that's exactly why I like him. However, I can't help my affection for traitors.

++Bill Ferny

Say, it's just this Breelander, who'd sell anything to anybody... and he was dealing with the Black Riders! Now, William would have been really cool had he had a contact with the Black Riders... alas, he didn't.

[skip spence]

++William

Can't differentiate between the three trolls as my memory is faint, but they're all awesome.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Employing the Power of One Skip
decides this round for William.

William-4 Bill Ferny-3

Next, an interesting match:

Shagrat vs. Grima Wormtongue

[Morthoron]

++Grima

The nick Wormtongue alone gets him my vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now this is what I call a hard choice. Two really nice baddies of about the same rank - they are both disgusting, in a way (I would not prefer to having them as friends, really), however, on the other hand I can still sympathise with them in some way (it would be cool to work with them - i.e. occassionally seeing them, as they'd have their own field of work - in Isengard/Cirith Ungol... although the latter is not a place I would like to be in that badly... Minas Morgul would be far better). They are both interesting characters, and really good villains.

Hmm... I have to choose yet

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Wormtongue

Because unlike an orc, he chose his lot in life.

[Groin Redbeard]

Grima is a corrupting snake who let his master work through him; although, I am sure that he is not without his talents of corruption. On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima.

++Shagy Rat

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the
Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered
in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or
perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of
LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in
Unfinished Tales.

Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning
a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory
of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable
destruction, etc.

Hmm. + + Shagrat. Who would have made mincemeat of
The Great Goblin if he had been able to get back to
freelance gangsterism (just like the good old days with
Gorbag).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima.

Well, interesting, isn't it? He was not "independant" in the sense of duty: he remained faithful to the orders from above. However, I daresay that was exactly what showed his, hmm, virtue (if you can find something like that with an Orc... but apparently, you can)? I mean: he was able to overcome his selfish greed (which he certainly had like a good Orc) and he was able to decide for himself, independantly indeed, to follow his duties, even if it meant facing Gorbag and a scary Great Elven Warrior. Hey, how nice.

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the
Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered
in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or
perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of
LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in
Unfinished Tales.

Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning
a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory
of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable
destruction, etc.

Aah yes, indeed (I like both the ideas.)

Hmm, so what... I might as well flip a coin.

We need some more Orcs.

++Shagrat

[Andsigil]

I hate quislings with an undying passion, so...

++Wormtongue

[Macalaure]

++Gríma

Nasty traitor wins over mere brute.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

In a close contest Wormy
sneaks his way past the noble Shagrat.

Grima Wormtongue-4 Shagrat-3

Next: Last chance for an orcsee to advance:
Morgoth Bauglir vs. Azog

[Morthoron]

No contest...

++Melkor

[Groin Redbeard]

Even if Azog is the most despicable orc ever, Morgoth deserves the winning title.

++Morgoth

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Well, for dwarf haters (not that I'm one) I
even find the petty dwarves rather sympathetic:

+ + Azog

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Morgoth

Because he was, after all, the "father" of all the orcs.

[the phantom]

I'm voting for Azog again. I gave reasons last time for why I like him.

++Azog

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Time extended for more voting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

++Azog

Come on, Morgoth is so cliché...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

++Azog

Come on, Morgoth is so cliché...

Things become clichés because they work so well. No bad idea can become a cliché.

++Melkor

Although, I must say a Dark Lord is a pretty boring cliché. But I like him in the Ainulindalë. Besides, "Melkor" is just an awesome name.

Azog... he's just nothing special.

But I will not be delighted if Melkor wins this whole competition. He's too boring for that.

[skip spence]

++Azog

A Great Orc he is. I find it interesting that he knew how to inscribe Dwarf-runes and had spare change in a familiar currency to throw at the beggar Dwarves.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But I will not be delighted if Melkor wins this whole competition. He's too boring for that.

And that's exactly why I was not voting him.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Azog put up a heady struglgle
against The Master of Disaster but
lost on a tiebreaker! If only Legate of Amon Lanc
had voted sooner.

Morgoth-4 Azog-4

Now on to the Elite Eight.

[B (6) ]Carcharoth vs. Scatha (1)
(4) Smaug vs. Sauron (2)

(5) Glaurung vs. William (1)
(5) Grima Wormtongue vs. Morgoth[/B] (4)


Next: Carcharoth vs. Scatha the Worm

[Morthoron]

I will have to deviate from voting for dragons and go for...

++Carcharoth

There's just not enough info on poor Scatha to make him that interesting.

[Macalaure]

Scatha's armour is like tenfold shields, his teeth are swords, his claws spears, the shock of his tail a thunderbolt, his wings... not really there..., and his breath... umm... chilly.

++Carcharoth

[Nerwen]

What they said.

++Carcharoth.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

There does seem to be a surfeit of dragons
(or is it a gaggle)?

+ + Carcharoth

[Rikae]

This may be unduly influenced by the fact that I read a great fanfic about him once, but whatever:

+ + Carcharoth

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What, people!!! You've got to be crazy!!!!! Scatha is the coolest (literally) dragon ever. (Smaug is the hottest. Glaurung, as stated before, is a stupid worm.)

Come on. He has cool name. He was killed by a man from Éotheod, that is, almost Rohirrim. Now tell me about anything as unique as a Rohir killing a Dragon. He lived in the Grey Mountains, but appartently so close to the edge of the Wilderness that it'd make you scream and run for Rivendell. Not that Rivendell would be safe. Rather, you'd run for Lindon.

And besides that, his mere teeth caused a murder, which is something not even a whole person can sometimes accomplish, let alone her teeth. So, really. Is there that much about Carcharoth anyway, in contrary to Scatha? He was just a lazy wolf.

++Scatha

And P.S.

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

If only Legate of Amon Lanc
had voted sooner.

Hey, it's if Skip Spence voted sooner. Or, if Lommy did not vote... hmph...

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And besides that, his mere teeth caused a murder, which is something not even a whole person can sometimes accomplish, let alone her teeth. So, really. Is there that much about Carcharoth anyway, in contrary to Scatha?

It's more of the story that goes with Carcharoth. The only result we see from Scatha is the fleeing of the Dwarves, and the later dislike between them and the northerners. However, Carcharoth one of the chief evil characters in the Tokien's best love story. Carcharoth is the one who thwarts Beren and Luthien's plans just when the reader is breathing a sigh of relief, and later comes back and slays Beren (which was so heart tugging the first time you read it). Also, let's not forget about Carcharoth's legendary battle with Huan, where the anger of Morgoth and the justice of the Valar fought!

++Carcharoth

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Let it be noted that I strongly object against dumping Scatha just like that. He was one of the best characters in this whole competition, not counting several Orcs who have been already dropped. And don't say he didn't get quite a lot of support in the earlier rounds.

[Groin Redbeard]

Like Azog, Scatha has a cool name and is interesting to know about compared to how little is written of him. However, when you get to some of the hard core evil characters it is only right that they step aside.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If you consider Carcharoth particularly special...

Besides, who was the one to vote Azog instead of Grishnákh, who was certainly as great baddie as Carcharoth (even far better from my personal point of view, but even when being as minimalistic as possible, you have to agree that he reaches Carcharoth's qualities, if nothing else).

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The Red Maw devours another opponent:

Carcharoth-6 Scatha the Worm-1

A fun fact: If you want your pet to grow up as big
and strong as the Jaws of Thirst this diet
regimen may be required:

Born of the foul breed of the Wolves of Angband and fed by Morgoth's own hand with Elvish and man-flesh in which Morgoth deliberately infused his own powers

Next: Smaug vs. Sauron

[Groin Redbeard]

Shoot, this is going to be hard! I like Smaug a bunch for his talk with Bilbo and for the wonderful adventure that he starts with Thorin. However, just looking at the name Sauron reminds me of how absolutely evil he was, you don't have to even try to think of anything for him. I'll have to think harder on this.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Btw, should Smaug prevail in this round
it should be noted that Carcharoth has
already dispatched two dragons, although if
it's Sauron then you have two of
Morgoth's favs one-on-one.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Oops! Accidentally posted twice.
So deleted second post.

[Morthoron]

I've always liked Smaug. He was very witty, and I love the acerbic repartee between Bilbo and the rhetorical reptile. Sauron...he's not so witty. Imagine Darth Vader trying to tell a joke.

++Smaug

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed. I have to go for Smaug here. He is very clever and interesting, and he is a Dragon. And a winged one, at that. And I can bet he's going to beat Carcey with no effort.

++Smaug the Golden