Running out of Creativity? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eorl of Rohan · 02-11-2004, 04:32 AM

This may be an insignificient thing, but I thought it was worth a notice.

Quote:

ere fire was found or iron hewn,
when young was mountain under moon

This is from the lay of Aothan and Il%$#. Do you notice first line's the similiarity with the words of Gandalf about ents in LOTR? And the second line appears in the poetry in LOTR that described Durin.

Maybe Tolkien was at a loss for words at the time, and shuffled over his other works looking for good lines that he could use again?

Evisse the Blue · 02-11-2004, 05:00 AM

I take it you mean the Lay of Aotrou and Itroun. I only recently stumbled upon it, and I don't know which was written first, this or LOTR. I agree that it's a striking resemblance but I wouldn't call it loss of creativity. At least I don't think he consciously looked for old notes. Maybe it was an unconscious thing, he was trying to work out the line that would fit best, and this sprung to mind. Anyway, what would you call this, self-plagiarism?

Eorl of Rohan · 02-11-2004, 09:25 PM

Yes, the Lay of Aotrou and Itroun was where the phrase was in. Thanks for clarifying that. But there is one more reason that I think Tolkien conciously shuffled through old notes. If you read the whole lay, you'd know that only these two sentences bear resemblance to LOTR, and they happen to be STUCK TOGETHER. I think it would be too much of a coincidence to unconciously use two sentences that are right next to each other.

Yes, I admit that it would be hard to sue someone for Self-plagiarism

02-11-2004, 05:00 AM	#2
Evisse the Blue Brightness of a Blade Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: wherever I may roam Posts: 2,740	I take it you mean the Lay of Aotrou and Itroun. I only recently stumbled upon it, and I don't know which was written first, this or LOTR. I agree that it's a striking resemblance but I wouldn't call it loss of creativity. At least I don't think he consciously looked for old notes. Maybe it was an unconscious thing, he was trying to work out the line that would fit best, and this sprung to mind. Anyway, what would you call this, self-plagiarism? __________________ And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass.

02-11-2004, 09:25 PM	#3
Eorl of Rohan Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seoul, South Korea Posts: 602	Yes, the Lay of Aotrou and Itroun was where the phrase was in. Thanks for clarifying that. But there is one more reason that I think Tolkien conciously shuffled through old notes. If you read the whole lay, you'd know that only these two sentences bear resemblance to LOTR, and they happen to be STUCK TOGETHER. I think it would be too much of a coincidence to unconciously use two sentences that are right next to each other. Yes, I admit that it would be hard to sue someone for Self-plagiarism __________________ There is no signature here.