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Old 06-10-2015, 01:08 PM   #761
Boromir88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mormegil View Post
Does this raise red flags to anyone else? The use of the word temporarily creeps me out.
I'm not blaming you if it does, just as I won't blame Nerwen for what she said about me yesterday. I'm making no mistake about intentionally hiding things, but if you're trying to paint me as a bigger threat to the village win over the unknown wolves, well this raises concerns about you.

I'll put it this way...village can lynch me today if they so want to, but I doubt they can beat the wolves without my help, at least right now. (If another wolf dies in a lynch today, or by my hands tonight, than it might change the dynamics to where the village decides I am a bigger threat than the remaining wolves).

The other option is to put up with an outed wildcard, who you can't be entirely sure if he's with the village team, or not. But you know he's not in a wolf pack and has shown the willingness and ability to go after wolves (and show restraint when needed that overall I think has benefitted the village more than the wolves).
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:13 PM   #762
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Originally Posted by satansaloser2005 View Post
Posting to remind myself that Eomer asked me a question of sorts and I need to respond to it. If he could clarify what he means (as I can't go back through the thread), that would be lovely. I'll return in a bit over four hours, and am unlikely to check the thread again before then, sorry.
You listed McCaber as innocent yesterday; just wondering if you still feel that way.

For what it's worth, my feeling right now is that Mithalwen is innocent - though that's based on tone of posts rather than anything else. Need to go back and check her posts. Leaning toward lynching Morm or Kath today. Agree mostly with Lommy's summary of Nerwen's dream-activity plus her criticism of Morm's unwillingness to acknowledge the simplest (and surely only reasonable) conclusion as to which living villagers were dreamt of and found innocent of wolvery.

Am still flip-flopping on Form.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:56 PM   #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morm
Here's the problem with that and something I keep coming back to, she said don't vote for them today but never did she indicate innocence.
The Seer telling you "don't vote these people" doesn't indicate innocence?



In any case, Boro is beginning to worry me. I'm aware you've been killing wolves, Boro, but with the way you've been talking about your role I'm starting to wonder if it's even possible for you to win with the village.

I agree with those that think morm's unwillingness to acknowledge my soul's fire and her dreams; I think Lommy pretty much tied it up with her recent analysis. As far as Mith goes, I honestly don't have much of a read on her but what I do have makes me lean innocent on her, I think.

I half wonder if we shouldn't ask the dead thread a simple question, like how many wolves are in the dead thread right now? Like -

If it's 1, give Lommy the extra vote
If it's 2, give Shasta the extra vote
If it's 3, give Eomer the extra vote
If it's 4, give Mith the extra vote
If it's 5, give Boro the extra vote
If it's 6, give McCaber the extra vote

- or something like that. Thoughts?
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:08 PM   #764
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But would they know definitively? And they cant tell us who. Seems like a lowish priority compared to knowing a firmly identified wolf. I suppose there is no chance of anyone returning from dead? I am a bit puzzled that Nerwen's body wasn't found since the Seer doesn't come back from the dead.

Given that time is creeping on for the Eastern bloc may be we should firm up the strategy soonish.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:09 PM   #765
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Unless I'm missing something, Shasta, they won't have that information.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:42 PM   #766
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Morm's pairs would work the best if Nerwen got a wolf in one of her final dreams.

Lommy's if she got innocents. But it leaves the door open for a bad lynch since the innocents aren't infallible.

Mith's suggestion of everyone self-voting and letting the dead decide if they know a living wolf would be great, if everyone goes through with it. But it leaves the door open for wolf funny business, which would out their wolvery. Although I would just kill them in the night then, that might be enough of a deterrence?

It's really up to the collective of the village. I have no problem self-voting.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:02 PM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin View Post

I agree with those that think morm's unwillingness to acknowledge my soul's fire and her dreams;
I'm a bit frustrated at this because I think you are all missing something. First, Nerwen never stated she was the seer. She implied it and I believe her. However, she only indicated dead people were wolves or innocent. She never definitively stated that any on that list were innocent. I'm encouraging skepticism that everyone on the list is a known innocent. She never came out and said it, why? She knew that she was likely going to get killed at night, it's frustrating that she didn't reveal everything she knows, so we've spent the whole day arguing about that and about trying to come up with some way for the dead to communicate with us. A plan was proposed a few hours ago and has been since rehashed and delayed by other...why? It's getting very late for our dead to organize this and it's because of a delay. Please notice Shasta that on my list I proposed hours ago, I had the list that Nerwen thought. Did you intentionally miss that?

I encourage skepticism of Boro and I'm glad you at least are seeing this, why can't you see that we ought not to give a free pass to those who were not stated empirically as innocent by Nerwen.

I still vote for my plan for the dead to vote but I'm sure it will be delayed and rehashed so that we come up with nothing solid again...congrats wolves a minor victory in your corner toDay.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:06 PM   #768
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Finally here properly, though I won't pretend to be anything but very sleepy! Numbers aren't my forte, and with no concrete evidence on how many wolves are left I won't even try to go near statistics, but I've read through (I know who is alive and dead this time I think!) and will try and weigh in.

Starting with:

Mith - However I have had an idea that is either bonkers or genius and I am not sure which. We know that there must be a majority of innocents in the dead thread now and that they seem to be horrifically active. I know given my vehement opposition to rigged voting day one but if we arranged a tie either of the unknowns or even go the whole hog and all just self vote then the dead can either take out a known wolf or if they don't know any leave us all to bicker another day. Too much of a risk of something going wrong?

If the numbers work (and others with better maths skills than me will need to check that) then this seems like a reasonable plan. The self vote would be an interesting way to do it, as any deviation from the plan could be immediately read as wolvish and give us leads for the next Day. Trying to create a tie has rather failed previously, so may not be the safest way to go. Though, perhaps a Lommy-style paired list where each votes for the other may work to create such a tie?
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:12 PM   #769
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Kath, I would rather go for self vote than arrange a tie, Anyone can abstain if they wish I don't think anyone is in immediate modfire danger and any funny business can be dealt with. Should get a wolf shouldn't lose and innocent.

However if that won't fly I would go for Morm's plan and take fewer options for us to give Dead flexibility. Lommie's seems to risky and as a potential lynchee I prefer to trust the dead who w know must have a majority of angels else the game would be over I think...
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:15 PM   #770
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Someone created this list - I want to say Lommy? Might have been Nerwen ... have updated it with the new information from the narrations.

Alive Innocent
Sally
Boro
Lommy
Eomer
Shasta

Alive Unknown
Form
McCaber
morm
Mith
Kath

Dead Innocent
Aganzir
Greenie
the phantom
Firefoot
Nerwen

Dead Unknown
Rikae
Nogrod
Rune
Lalaith
Legate
Nilp

Dead Guilty
Mac
Lottie

The potential dreams from Nerwen seem fairly straightforward. Lommy's analysis of the posts that suggest each dream didn't raise any red flags. I can see morm's argument that Nerwen said 'don't vote' rather than 'trust' or 'innocent' but given she seemed to be playing the role of Seer under the guise of something ... not quite Seerish, then a straightforward 'I dreamed of so-and-so and they were this' doesn't really fit the bill. Though why she stated the phantom's innocence twice is a mystery still.

Therefore I agree that votes need to hit:
Form
McCaber
morm
Mith
Kath

I am willing to be part of a try at a tie. If it goes wrong and I die, you won't have lost any special role, but I don't know if we have the numbers to afford losing anyone. Statistics people, any ideas there?

Mith's self vote plan sounds like the most fun, but I will defer to those who have been active!
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:16 PM   #771
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Mith what was morm's plan? I've either missed it or not realised it was a plan ...
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:17 PM   #772
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Quick comment - maybe the self vote scheme toMorrow. ToDay it's already getting late and if a lot of the dead have cast their votes early we can easily lynch a known innocent. Plus this way we give Nerwen one more Night to bag a wolf, making the scheme more effective. Also if we do the self vote thing I suggest we agree on it toDay or early toMorrow and the unknowns vote first. If they are innocent they shouldn't have anything against it. If someone messes up we known innocents can vote him/her in turn.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:17 PM   #773
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If Lalaith is a wolf give your vote to:
Form
Sally
McCaber


If she's not, give the vote to:
Boromir88
Thinlómien
Eomer


If you don't know give your vote to:
mormegil
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath


This one?
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:18 PM   #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Quick comment - maybe the self vote scheme toMorrow. ToDay it's already getting late and if a lot of the dead have cast their votes early we can easily lynch a known innocent. Plus this way we give Nerwen one more Night to bag a wolf, making the scheme more effective. Also if we do the self vote thing I suggest we agree on it toDay or early toMorrow and the unknowns vote first. If they are innocent they shouldn't have anything against it. If someone messes up we known innocents can vote him/her in turn.
Makes sense. Do we want to aim for the tie toDay then?
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:22 PM   #775
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Unknown:
Form
McCaber
morm
Mith
Kath

Known:
Sally
Boro
Lommy
Eomer
Shasta

No one has voted yet right? So can we simply match up pairs?

Form <--> sally
McCaber <--> Boro
morm <--> Lommy
Mith <--> Eomer
Kath <--> Shasta
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:26 PM   #776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath View Post
If Lalaith is a wolf give your vote to:
Form
Sally
McCaber


If she's not, give the vote to:
Boromir88
Thinlómien
Eomer


If you don't know give your vote to:
mormegil
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath



This one?
morm is a wolf give vote to Form or McCaber
Form is a wolf give vote to morm or Lommy
Kath is a wolf give vote to Eomer or Mith
Mith is a wolf give vote to Kath or Shasta
McCaber is a wolf give vote to Boro
No dreams on this list as wolf give vote to Sally

in his 5.47 post
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:28 PM   #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath View Post
If the numbers work (and others with better maths skills than me will need to check that) then this seems like a reasonable plan. The self vote would be an interesting way to do it, as any deviation from the plan could be immediately read as wolvish and give us leads for the next Day. Trying to create a tie has rather failed previously, so may not be the safest way to go. Though, perhaps a Lommy-style paired list where each votes for the other may work to create such a tie?
It's probably going to be too late and risky for an orchestrated tied vote. I'm bowing out of the Dead relaying information discussion, my aid only goes so far. It's got to be the collective of the village to decide.

Rest assured, until my very last breath, I will purge this home of the wolves. I don't hold it against anyone to be skeptical (I would be too in your shoes), as long as you don't hold it against me that there are certain things I can't decide for you.

As it stands, I'm going under the assumption we can't orchestrate a tied vote today. Therefore...

I have a good feeling about Mith today. Her pressing action and plans look the most innocent. I won't vote for sally today either.

Shasta's always a tricky one. Once you think he's safe he'll get you. Considering Nerwen and him have a Sun/stars/moon of my life thing that's continued on over the years. It's never certain what they're up to, but considering Nerwen's role, Shasta seems like a safe pair of hands too.

I'm up in the air about the rest and therefor that's where my vote will go today...

Form
Eomer
McCaber
Morm
Lommy
Kath
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:30 PM   #778
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Yeah Mith that's the one I spotted, but that's a plan for the Dead not the Living surely?
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:32 PM   #779
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Ok Kath's embracing of the self vote encourages me as to her innocence . . But I can understand that it might be a risk if not all innocent dead are active and we have 2 know stateside wolves who could cause trouble.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:37 PM   #780
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Yeah Mith that's the one I spotted, but that's a plan for the Dead not the Living surely?
Well yesl That was to allow them flexibility to avoind skewing a free lynch vote. It is only just now that organising the living has become an issue.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:38 PM   #781
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Among other things I don't think I'll be getting any more pms anyway and we've got (effectively) a whole bunch of known innocents now.
What do Boro and Morm think she meant by this?

Nerwen, the Seer, on what she correctly guessed to be her last day among the living, specifically left myself, Shasta and Lommy off the list of potential wolves.

She trusted Boro and Sally, who revealed their special roles. Two people - Boro and Sally - does not a bunch make.

Now, I believe we can add McCaber to this list, given Sally's post yesterday suggesting his innocence. But this was before Nerwen said her stuff (I think) so surely her 'bunch' was us five.

I'm baffled that Boro is still talking about suspecting me and Lommy. Maybe less baffled by Morm's similar behaviour, as this could be a last-ditch wolvish tactic by him.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:43 PM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath View Post
Unknown:
Form
McCaber
morm
Mith
Kath

Known:
Sally
Boro
Lommy
Eomer
Shasta

No one has voted yet right? So can we simply match up pairs?

Form <--> sally
McCaber <--> Boro
morm <--> Lommy
Mith <--> Eomer
Kath <--> Shasta
Wait, tired brain just realised this is a terrible plan, as it could lead to lynching a known innocent with the wolves in the mix! Only the top five should be getting votes at all: Form, McCaber, morm, Mith, Kath.

So ... yeah, the logistics are tougher. I am going to have to head to bed in the very near future. I am happy to vote any of that list, but rather feel I should vote Form for continuity or morm because it did feel a little like clutching at straws with Nerwen's possible dreams.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:53 PM   #783
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++morm[/QUOTE]

I have to go pass out now. morm's focus on the lack of specific wording by Nerwen felt forced, and he's on the unknown list. If you want to aim for a tie, feel free to add my name in to the mix. As I said, as long as we can afford the numbers my death won't lose the village anything in terms of roles if the tie doesn't work out.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:54 PM   #784
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A self-vote does sound like a good plan, but I still think I'm skeptical of Boro. It just seems like a role screaming to have its own separate agenda apart from the village's own.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:55 PM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim View Post
I'm baffled that Boro is still talking about suspecting me and Lommy. Maybe less baffled by Morm's similar behaviour, as this could be a last-ditch wolvish tactic by him.
For myself, I wasn't paying the greatest attention to what was happening yesterday. I was basically gone the entire day and quickly read it from my phone before being most perturbed by Form's posts and voting for him.

Since that's the case, for today, I revise my list to...

Form
McCaber
Morm
Kath
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:14 PM   #786
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please. Four hours to go and I think 1 am for Eastern bloc.

Since Kath has voted and there is a feeling my plan should wait are we going for Mormegil's scheme for Dead vote?

It is getting late this side of the pond even the Dead may sleep.

We need it to be clear or we will miss out again
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:21 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
please. Four hours to go and I think 1 am for Eastern bloc.

Since Kath has voted and there is a feeling my plan should wait are we going for Mormegil's scheme for Dead vote?

It is getting late this side of the pond even the Dead may sleep.

We need it to be clear or we will miss out again
If the dead trust my intentions and the living trust me enough to not lynch me today...I tell them now go with morm's plan and if they signal a wolf I will try to take the wolf out tonight.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:21 PM   #788
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please. Four hours to go and I think 1 am for Eastern bloc.

Since Kath has voted and there is a feeling my plan should wait are we going for Mormegil's scheme for Dead vote?

It is getting late this side of the pond even the Dead may sleep.

We need it to be clear or we will miss out again
It looks as though we've failed to come to an agreement. I would hope that the dead can give their vote to somebody that they feel will benefit us the most. I would suggest we look at those who continued to delay it as I said earlier...Shasta, Lommy, Boro, Kath, and Mith come to mind.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:26 PM   #789
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Two people - Boro and Sally - does not a bunch make.
True, but things change. As for your question, I do in fact still trust McCaber toDay.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:27 PM   #790
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I now realise that Lommie made an unilateral declaration and tha she didn't care about lynching an inniocent. rather cavalier attitude and not very fair. Waters muddied badly...... very frustrating
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:29 PM   #791
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I'm back at my computer at last! Catching up now.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:32 PM   #792
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I don't trust morm re: everything that's been said thus far vis-a-vis my light's innocent dreams, but the more I think about it the more I'm wary of Boro. Now, obviously I can't claim to know how Kuru set the role up, but I can't help but wonder if Boro doesn't have some sort of power to prevent him from being lynched? I mean, with a third-party-esque role, it pretty much all goes to waste if they're the random Day 1 lynch, for example.

Honestly, I could vote Boro today. Sorry bro.

If not Boro, my vote will likely be for morm.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:33 PM   #793
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Also, can I just say how eerie it is that Eomer and I are basically on the same wavelength?
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:37 PM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mormegil View Post
Is this what you are thinking:

If:
morm is a wolf give vote to Form or McCaber
Form is a wolf give vote to morm or Lommy
Kath is a wolf give vote to Eomer or Mith
Mith is a wolf give vote to Kath or Shasta
McCaber is a wolf give vote to Boro
No dreams on this list as wolf give vote to Sally

That spreads it out and I'm willing to give Boro the single vote as well as it's known that he's at least not a wolf though his motivations are unclear.
Okay let's go with this scheme. It's not the best but it's widely agreed on.

ToMorrow, let's do the self-vote thing. If you were not cleared by Nerwen, you are expected to vote as early as possible. Don't worry, we others will definitely lynch anyone who votes for anyone else except themself.
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Old 06-10-2015, 04:56 PM   #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morm
She implied it and I believe her. However, she only indicated dead people were wolves or innocent. She never definitively stated that any on that list were innocent. I'm encouraging skepticism that everyone on the list is a known innocent. She never came out and said it, why? She knew that she was likely going to get killed at night, it's frustrating that she didn't reveal everything she knows, so we've spent the whole day arguing about that and about trying to come up with some way for the dead to communicate with us
If she didn't dream of me, Shasta and Eomer, pray tell me, who did she dream of? Why would she have intentionally withheld important information from us while implying the innocence of people whose roles she didn't know??

Definitely not supporting making a tie toDay. That will just make a mess with all the proposed voting schemes going around too. Let's just lynch one of the unknowns. ToMorrow we can do the genious self-vote scheme.

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I now realise that Lommie made an unilateral declaration and tha she didn't care about lynching an inniocent. rather cavalier attitude and not very fair. Waters muddied badly...... very frustrating
That's not what I meant. I said I didn't care which of you unknowns we lynch because I didn't have a strong opinion about which one of you is guilty, so every option seemd roughly as good to me.

However, currently I would say the unknowns are from the most to least suspicious:

morm
Form
Kath
Mith
McCaber

Sally I trust. Boro I'm still not 100% certain of, but it's hardly the issue for toDay, probably not even toMorrow.

Also I need to vote soon and I'll probably go for morm.

I think toDay everyone should

1) vote for whoever they think is a wolf out of Nerwen's suggested lynch candidates

2) say yay or nay for the self-vote scheme toMorrow

before they go to sleep.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:02 PM   #796
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Quote:
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Honestly, I could vote Boro today. Sorry bro.

If not Boro, my vote will likely be for morm.
That's fine. I understand it just turns your stomach thinking you would have to credit someone of my questionable character if you manage to win this...

I've come to the conclusion you can't without my help. If you feel otherwise, then good luck. My fate is virtually sealed now. What is it that Beorn says? "I don't care much for dwarves, but I hate orcs"

Something of the sort. Replace dwarves with villagers and orcs with wolves and that's where I'm at. I only can help as much as you are willing to accept my offer. No risk. No reward.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:11 PM   #797
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Hey Boro, if you're indeed what you claim to be and on the side of the village, cool down. I don't think anyone except Shasta really wants to lynch you toDay, and even he only considers it an option.

You must understand why we can't trust you 100%. I'll give you cookies (or raw meat if that's what you prefer ) for killing Mac for us, though.

Personally I still think we should trust Boro unless Nerwen & co let us know we shouldn't. And we should give them a way to do so, which we didn't toDay, but maybe they will indicate it toMorrow if we do the self-vote Day, or the Day after if it comes and if Boro is alive.

Boro is not our #1 priority toDay.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:13 PM   #798
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Obviously I am pro my own scheme unless the situation changes dramatically overnight. The fact that Kath was up for it inclines me to think her innocent. I shan't vote for her unless I need to save my own neck. So I shall have to stay up a while before voting.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:15 PM   #799
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Boro is not our #1 priority toDay.
Unless all the wolves are dead and the game continues until he's killed all of us.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:17 PM   #800
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Like, if Boro is a traditional werebear, we should start worrying when there's repeatedly only one Night kill. We're still 10 people so he's not going to win any time soon if he only wins alone. Also, if he really only won alone why wouldn't he have killed someone every Night? It doesn't really add up. Maybe there's something in his role that allows him to win with either side, in which case we should convince him the village is winning and it makes sense for him to side with us, which surprisingly enough actually looks likely atm. *pats Boro on the head* Nice pet bear, good boy. Want more cookies or raw meat now? We are nice little innocent villagers, the wolves are nasty.


edit: xed with Mith and Eomer!
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Last edited by Thinlómien; 06-10-2015 at 05:18 PM. Reason: fixed a typo: snese -> sense
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