Galadriel and the Necromancer

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I'm not sure if I have the timeline correct, but I'm positive Celeborn and Galadriel only took up rule in Lorinand after the Balrog's awakening in Moria 1981 TA. But 931 years before this, Sauron has already started building Dol Guldor. Sauron flees from Gandalf in 2063 TA but returns with amplified strength to Dol Guldor in 2460 TA, ending the Watchful Peace. It isn't after some 481 years that the White Council finally attacks, though in vain.

Now, Sauron had many years to destroy Lorinand before Celeborn and Galadriel could take rule and protect it. And I know both of them periodically checked Lorinand to strengthen whatever defenses they had, but it still cannot substitute for Celeborn's lordship and Galadriel's protection with Nenya. So with these chances, Sauron's spiritual powers could cross the Anduin and spy out Amroth's pretty little kingdom and unravel its secrets. Not to mention there wasn't any Caras Galadhon at the time, protecting the eastermost part (tongue and the Naith) of Lorien, for Cerin Amroth was situated in the heart of the forest. Sauron's power could've easily touched Lorinand if he wanted. But yet he didn't.

Is it possible that Galadriel has been using some parts of Nenya during her peridoc visits to Lorinand to "fence" the realm, though it was still under the rulership of Amroth? I can't imagine Lorinand staying safe for that long (sans Galadriel) with Sauron right next door without some magical agent aiding Lorinand.

And in addition, Galadriel only became actively involved when Celebrian was tortured by the orcs. The next year, she became aggresive and aided Eorl's host across Anduin. Keep in mind that Sauron has already returned at this time (after the Watchful Peace) with increased strength. There were dark glooms flowing out of Dol Guldor, and I'm sure Sauron sensed Eol's host approaching. Yet the white mists from Galadriel was able to drive back Sauron's darkness? Why is this? Does this mean that in his Necromancer state, Sauron is weaker? Being a maia, he could've easily pushed back Galadriel's enchanted mists and done away with Eorl and his host, but he was overpowered.

And he'd ahve to have known it was Galadriel in there, for the rumors were rampant of the feared Sorceress of the Golden Wood.

Did Sauron need to be physically in Lorien to combat Galadriel's magicks?

[Inziladun]

Hmm. When dwelling in Dol Guldur, Sauron was basically biding his time, rebuilding his power and refining his plans, it seems. I don't think he was much involved with offensive operations in the days before Celeborn and Galadriel founded Lórien.
Before they were there, why would he have felt it necessary to worry about Lórinand anyway? It was only a small settlement of Silvan Elves. There was a much larger contingent in Mirkwood, on his doorstep. If he'd been capable of any action against his foes, I'd think they would have been the greater threat to him.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Hmm. When dwelling in Dol Guldur, Sauron was basically biding his time, rebuilding his power and refining his plans, it seems. I don't think he was much involved with offensive operations in the days before Celeborn and Galadriel founded Lórien.

Well he was... secretly, anyway. Wasn't he the one commanding the WK to weaken Arnor at this point?

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Before they were there, why would he have felt it necessary to worry about Lórinand anyway? It was only a small settlement of Silvan Elves. There was a much larger contingent in Mirkwood, on his doorstep. If he'd been capable of any action against his foes, I'd think they would have been the greater threat to him.

Well, those rustic elves did flee on the first sign of his shadow, which gives me the impression that they weren't so formidable. And mind you, Sauron was still recovering at this point. And I'm going by an excerpt in U.T. (History of G&C) where it mentions Sauron's invasion over Eriador after sacking the city of Hollin. He was ready to proceed to Mithlond and some where along those lines, it states his thoughts that, "Lorien could wait for now," which means he knew of this Elvish settlement already (thus it had to be important). Perhaps he knew Galadriel was there after convincing the Mirdain to wrest the power of Eregion from her?

But again, how his sorceries were overpowered by Galadriel baffles me, if he indeed came back to Dol Guldor more powerful than before. The riding of Eorl was a critical one and would have sealed Gondor's doom had it been averted. Yet, he couldn't fight back a river-mist? Wasn't he more powerful still even bereft of his ring?

[Galin]

And I'm going by an excerpt in U.T. (History of G&C) where it mentions Sauron's invasion over Eriador after sacking the city of Hollin. He was ready to proceed to Mithlond and some where along those lines, it states his thoughts that, "Lorien could wait for now," which means he knew of this Elvish settlement already (thus it had to be important). Perhaps he knew Galadriel was there after convincing the Mirdain to wrest the power of Eregion from her?

This detail is from Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, and in this text Galadriel was in Lórien when Sauron attacked Eregion, and Sauron guessed the truth: the Three had been commited to Elvish guardians: 'and that must mean Galadriel and Gil-galad'.

Sauron was angered and not finding the Three, and moreover, with the Dwarves of Moria the Elves of Lórien under Amroth (here Galadriel's son) attack Sauron in Eriador. Sauron decides to gain mastery of Eriador, with Lindon his next objective, and there: 'he believed that he had most chance of seizing one, or more, of the Three Rings' (keeping in mind he could not pass through Moria now) and: 'Lórinand could wait.'


But in my opinion certain elements of this text were abandoned (along with Amroth being Galadriel's son). I'll not go into that in detail now, but at least one of two later (but competing!) notes puts Galadriel in Lindon, with no indication (at least) that she had ever been to Lórien. Celeborn would meet her later according to this note, and it seems possible that Galadriel fled to Lindon with Nenya before Sauron came with war.

Anyway, Sauron was defeated at this time as we know, and your question seems to be more about the Third Age. Concerned to learn news of the growing shadow in Dol Guldur, it is noted that Galadriel and Celeborn travel to Lórien, stayed there 'long', then took long journeys of enquiry in Rhovanion, and passed to Imladris. (incidentally, in The Quest of Erebor Gandalf notes that he thought Sauron planned to attack Lórien and Rivendell as soon as he was strong enough, but this is in a much later context in any event, after Gandalf had entered Dol Guldur it seems).

Keeping in mind that Sauron had lost the One (with it also being noted that he had struck to soon, before his own power was rebuilt), in the period concerned, roughly TA 1050 to TA 1981, among other events we have: the invasion of Arnor, civil war in Gondor, the Great Plague, the defeat of the Witch-king, and ultimately the loss of Amroth. Concerning the Plague at least, Appendix A notes this much (not that there isn't more to note here):

'It is true that the enemies of Gondor also suffered, or they might have overwhelmed it in its weakness; but Sauron could wait, and it may be that the opening of Mordor was what he chiefly desired.' (just over 200 years later, the attacks of the Wainraiders upon Gondor begin).

In any case, the matter of Galadriel's movements in the Third Age might carry a further obscurity: there's a note 'elsewhere' (as briefly described by Christopher Tolkien), and all it really says is that when the Shadow of Sauron's recovery arose, Galadriel and Celeborn: 'dwelt there [Lórien] again for a long time' and it was not until the disaster in Moria that they took up their permanent abode in Lórien and its government.

How long did they remain in Lórien at this point? Not sure. I have imaginatively merged parts of the 'elsewhere note' with the other later chronology that touches upon the Third Age (the Rhovanion enquiry and etc) -- I find no great reason not to, but that is still a bit of an assumption, especially considering we appear to have so little to go on externally here.

I would agree the period concerned is considerable enough, especially from a mortal perspective, but these points might be further considerations to add to the mix.