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02-17-2004, 01:59 PM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 27
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Coincidencial?
Isildur cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand (it was on his finger), and Frodo had the One Ring bitten from his hand (it was on his finger). Was this intended to be so by the great professor or did he just not notice?
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'Too often have I heard of duty. But am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse? I have waited on faltering feet long enough. Since they falter no longer, it seems, may I not now spend my life as I will?' - Éowyn |
02-17-2004, 02:20 PM | #2 |
Ubiquitous Urulóki
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Well, it could've been meant to be, but I believe it just makes the most sense. Neither Sauron nor Frodo were just going to let the Ring be pulled off their fingers, so the obvious way to part them would be to bite/slash that finger off. Isildur did it because he was in no position to politely ask Sauron to take off the ring and have tea with him. Gollum bit off Frodo's finger because...well, actually, it's just because he likes fingers, it has nothing to do with the Ring.
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02-17-2004, 07:16 PM | #3 |
Haunting Spirit
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I just noticed that... but yeah Kransha is right. Welcome to the downs Ellwyn.
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A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK |
02-17-2004, 07:44 PM | #4 |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,646
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I personally think that he meant to do it. I always thought it was pretty cool about the "nine-fingers" thing. Very few things that Tolkien did were accidental, and I don't think this is one of them. Kransha does have a good point, that it was convenient just to have them lose the finger, but I think it was also done with purpose.
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02-17-2004, 08:06 PM | #5 |
Ubiquitous Urulóki
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Well, there is finger-related symbolism (wow, that doesn't sound right). Nine fingers on Frodo and Sauron, nine members of the Fellowship, nine Nazgul, Nine bastions of evil, etc. That's probably just general linking symbolism; Fellowship - Nazgul, Frodo - Sauron, and onward.
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"What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name, Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law. For old our office, and our fame," -Aeschylus, Song of the Furies |
02-17-2004, 08:11 PM | #6 |
Haunting Spirit
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Sauron lost more than one finger
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A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK |
02-18-2004, 02:14 AM | #7 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
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Only in the movie, Gil Galad...
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02-18-2004, 07:10 PM | #8 |
Haunting Spirit
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Really.... man I haven't read the book in a awhile..
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A red sun rises... blood has been spilt this night.- Legolas TTT Certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?- Gimli ROTK |
02-18-2004, 09:32 PM | #9 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Estelyn beat me to it, but only because my browser whacked out on me last night. I did think it a strange thing that the movie showed several fingers coming off. It was a pointless detraction from the book. I also think the "fingers" of Sauron correspond to the nine Nazgul.
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02-19-2004, 10:48 AM | #10 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 27
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Thanks, Gil Galad and thank you all for responding to my topic!
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'Too often have I heard of duty. But am I not of the House of Eorl, a shieldmaiden and not a dry-nurse? I have waited on faltering feet long enough. Since they falter no longer, it seems, may I not now spend my life as I will?' - Éowyn |
02-19-2004, 05:54 PM | #11 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: perth, west australia
Posts: 71
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Quote:
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"Do you think I am trying to weave a spell? Perhaps I am; but remember your fairy tales. Spells are used for breaking enchantments as well as inducing them. And you and I have need of the strongest spell that can be found to wake us from the evil enchantment of worldliness..." - C.S. Lewis |
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02-19-2004, 10:19 PM | #12 |
Raffish Rapscallion
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-(
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More & more coincidences....
I didn't really think about Sauron having one finger for each of the Blackriders, that was probably purposed, though . |
02-21-2004, 08:05 AM | #13 | |
Lost among the Stars
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hiding in Childhood (Sweden)
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Quote:
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02-24-2004, 01:32 AM | #14 |
Wight
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Troll's larder
Posts: 195
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You know, when you come to think of it; the numbers for the rings are quite symbolic. Three rings for the Elven Kings and there were three houses of the Elves: Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri. The Vanyar dwells in the West, of course, and the three rings were not made by Sauron either. Yet Sauron might have wanted to enslave all of the Eldar in Middle-Earth at least via those three rings.
The Seven houses of Dwarves corresponded likewise to Sauron's seven rings. Those rings were either destroyed or taken back. I wondered sometimes what Sauron did with those rings that he got back... I do not know about the Houses of Men. I certainly know that there were three Edain house in the First Age. Perhaps there were six houses of Easterlings too? The nine Nazgul were literally like Sauron's nine fingers. To combat the nine Black Riders, Elrond send out nine walkers. Note that the Fellowship of the Ring, which comprised of the nine Walkers was eventually left with eight, since Boromir died on the way. But Sauron's Nine was made into eight too: the Witchking was killed. The parallel along those lines might have been coincidental, but it certainly even out the numbers of contestant in the end. Er, if Gollum is to be counted as being on the side of the Evil, (not just Sauron) then the Nine Nazgul might be counted as ten. Gollum had not faded and was under no command of Sauron, but he definately represented evil and he had possessed for a long time the One ring that ought to have been in the finger of Sauron. If that is the case, however, I should count Gandalf's death in Moria as being parallel with the Witchking's defeat. Note the Parley at the gate of Minas Tirith. Gandalf, returned from the dead, facing the Witchking who is just about to die and not return. Then Gollum's death at Mount Doom might also parallel with the death of Boromir. Both of them betrayed Frodo, and both died and at the same time fulfilled their vow. The One Ring is Sauron's own. Surely he would not want to make another for somebody else? |
03-03-2004, 02:36 PM | #15 |
Wight
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Crickhallow
Posts: 247
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I think that Tolkien intentionally did that, but who knows?
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