Oh my Gosh!!!

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

Had anyone picked up the latest copy of Enterainment Weekly (with Angelina Jolie on the cover)??? OK, here's the deal. There is a section in there where, I think, it is the girl's job to pick apart things & make fun of them. Well, she chose Lord of the Rings this month, & well - there are things that she just shouldn't have said. She tears apart the characters - not as the actors played them, but the characters themselves. Then, she goes into how she thought that all of the Hobbits were gay (cause they slept in the same bed in Bree) & how Aragorn should've kissed Boromir on his grave. What is this **** ! Forgive my language!<BR>She is not so much picking apart the movie as she is picking apart Tolkien's work. I find it really offensive. If ya'll get a chance to read it I would like to hear your opinions. Maybe I'm being to critical, I don't know. I just didn't approve of it.<BR>PS<BR>If you get the magazine - you will find the article on a page that has a picture of (ever so cleverly ) Frodo in a salon chair getting his hair and toenails done.

[Nilaraniel]

I had this dumb girl come up to me one day and say "Lord of the Rings was the stupidest movie I ever saw. The story was lame and I hated it." (Exact quote)<P>Yeah well I could have told her it wouldn't be for her before she wasted her money, cause it's one of those stories where you kinda have to THINK. I'm sorry, maybe it's a bad thing to think and worse to say, but I've come to the conclusion that if a person dosn't tolerate/appreciate/like/love Fantasy and/or Science Fiction then they just arn't very intelligent. And man do I have a graduating class of 2001 full of GOOFS to prove it!! ;-)<P>I hope that wasn't too off topic. Kinda had to get it off my chest. <P>Nila

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

RIGHT ON!!!<BR>I have to agree

[ElanorGamgee]

That's awful about the review! I wonder if the girl had even read the novels? I'm getting so sick of people who think it's fun and clever to tear the work of others down. It's getting harder and harder to find anything worth reading or watching in the media as intelligence levels continue to plummet. And I'm so sick of the "gay hobbits" thing!!! It's a shame that our society is so perverse that two people can't be good friends without others assuming that there has to be some kind of sexuality involved

[Kalimac]

To quote Geraint Powell from "The Lyre of Orpheus": "I pity your ignorance and despise you." (The You is addressed to the author of the article, in case anyone was wondering ).

[Glenethor]

Being a cynical old Wiz-Wannabe, <P>It isn't necessarily the disagreement or disagreeability of such people that offends me. What <I>does</I> offend me is that someone is getting paid to do a hatchet job, and that, because that person is 'an authority' (they must be smart, honest, etc, because they are published, right?) their views are deemed to have greater credence than others. Now here is where I get cynical: I think it entirely possible for such kinds of hatchet jobs to be paid for by people who have a vested interest in discrediting a work of art, whether for commercial or ideological reasons, or both.<P><BR>I don't really care what others like, or what they think of my likes. Life is too short to worry about what others' think, n'est pas? <P>

[Neferchoirwen]

Oui. Glenethor does have a point. It's absurd, in my opinion, that people DO get paid for such things. It's all in the money, and, in connecting the previous thoughts, money can make people ignorant.<P>But let me just vent...<BR>Back when Harry Potter was gaining so much popularity, a lot of critics would say that Harry Potter is Satanic, and not suitable for children to read. Well, if HP IS not good for my kids to read (whenever I'll have them), then I'll not let them read the bible either, which has more controversial plotlines in comparison to HP or LotR.<BR>In light of that and LotR, someone I know does not want to watch LotR (can't blame her or force her, anyway) because of all the 'wizards' and 'elves,' and most especially the balrogs (if she gets to see them); and her personal 'boycott' (though her views are shared by a few others) is a 'christian' one. <BR>Well, I'M a christian, but I'm open a lot of things...I'll just not let IGNORANCE get the best of me.<P>So there.

[Glenethor]

Yeah, that is a whole big kettle of rancid fishes.<P>When the movie first came out, someone at theonering.net posted a link of a review by some ostensibly independent organization. When I looked at the review, it was written by some Christian fundamentalists, who attempted to use statistical analysis to give quantitative validity to their review. LoTR was panned for:<P>Smoking;<BR>Violence (it cites one beheading, but there are actually two, both committed by Aragorn);<BR>And the notion that because Gandalf was a Wizard, the central theme of the movie was <I>the use of Evil to destroy Evil</I>, since Wizards are considered necromancers, etc., by certain people. This is all a smear campaign predicated on <I>ideological</I> grounds.<P>I cannot stess strongly enough that people need to think for themselves and trust their own judgements, rather than allowing others to define their thoughts for them. Don't for a moment accept the notion that because one is an 'authority' or even merely a couple of years older than you that their <I>opinions</I> are any more valid than yours.<P>My best friend's opinion of Tolkien? <I>'He's verbose.'</I> He doesn't have the depth of imagination to 'get' something like LoTR, Dune, or anything that. I tend to sneer at what kinds of books he reads, and he tends to sneer at what I read. We've known each other since kindergarten, and our tastes in literature is not really an impediment in our friendship.

[Neferchoirwen]

Haha. That sounds so familiar, Glenethor. My friend's opinions on fantasy literature does make me despise her, anyway.<P>I just hope they'd be wiser.<P>The whole school of Criticism (in terms of literature and philosoiphy) makes life very confusing.<P>...which reminds me...(speaking of Lit criticisms)<P>Everyone wish me luck on my thesis. <P>...now that was ironic.

[Rosa Underhill]

Hoo wee! Not just a double post but a <I>triple</I> post! Now there's somethin' y'don' see ever'day! <P>On the "gay hobbit" issue: *grumbles* Stupid emotional constipation... People who think the hobbits are gay should not watch foreign films then. "Kabbi Kushi, Kabbi Gahm (Sometimes Happy, Sometimes Sad)",(great musical made in India), would give them all massive heart attacks. <P>On cirtics: People who get paid to be opinionated should be ignored. Besides, I've yet to see a critic who can descern the good from the bad.<P>On Harry Potter and Christians: This issue shouldn't even be debated. For the most part, the books are harmless; Christians are just making themselves look worse by arguing about this. And Tolkien is far less "satanic" than HP, anyways. Just because there's a wizard in a story doesn't mean it's evil! And I've read plenty of stories with God in them that make HP look like a walk in the park! (Note: these stories usually are either profaning God's name or making Him out to be what He most certainly is not.)<P>I could go on and on about all this...<P>In short: it's amazing the lengths some people will go to be stupid.

[Enedhil]

Fairly makes my stomach churn when people don't just bite or snap or snarl, but go for the heart.<P>They're not worth any effort <P>*dimisses worthless critics with wave of hand*<P><BR>yeeeah, i'm waffling now cos i'm tired. night night xxx (almost midnight, UK)

[goldwine]

There seems to be a lot of controversy about LOTR because of the movie. I work in a library and have had a lot of Christians ask me about Tolkien's works. I have told them to read the book before they make any judgements - the movie is not a valid representation of LOTR, due to somewhat to time considerations, but also because it is only a director's interpretation. I didn't find "Finding God in Lord of the Rings" particularly helpful - it does not really address any of the "magic and wizardary" issues, which are the prevailing concerns in most Chrisitans minds.<BR>As HP and LOTR movies came out close together, they are being bundled together. They are extremely different in about everyway possible! I do not want to start a literary, philosophical, spiritual or moral debate about the content of the books or their author's wolrdviews, but these issues are important to people and they have every right to argue them! I am happy to reply to anyone who wants to know what I think about HP, but this isn't the place!<BR>When I read nasty reviews like the one we are commenting on, I find it as personally offensive as calling my baby ugly! But then it is really only a movie......! It is people's passionate opinions which keep these magazines alive!

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

You know, for a religion that got its start being thrown to the lions and disallowed their rights and right to worship, these Christians are awfully quick to burn books, ban this and ban that. You'd think they'd be the last ones on earth to deny the right of others to read what they like. Far from it.<P>If it helps your day at the library goldwine, you could always point out the fact that Gandalf is a Maia, sort of a type of angelic being. Read a passage or two of the Silmarillion. But in my experience there are two types of Christians, political and spiritual. If you're dealing with the political type, you're spitting in the breeze of their opinions. They wouldn't listen if <I>God</I> spoke to them. The spiritual types have a genuine heart, and there's a gentleness about them. They seem to spend more time doing good, and less time being angry.<P>As far as the homosexuality theory, based on Bree (?) this article sounds like a spoof, and it isn't the first, nor will it be the last. It's the price of popularity, and a sign that the Lord of the Rings is here to stay.

[goldwine]

I appreciate your reply, Maril, and I think you have summed up a lot of Christians (and others!) quite well! As a Christian know I can swing from spiritual to political myself!<BR>I can see your parallel about Gandalf from the Silm. I would recommend that people read the Silm for themselves but it is always out these days....! <P>As our discussions in "trilogy and bible" prove, there are no difinitive answers and people will read in a lot of what they bring to it. My general discussions include such comments as "well, Tolkien was a Christian"... On the whole I don't feel the need to defend it. I am so biased about LOTR etc. that I can get a little too passionate!

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

It's good to know that people here think the way that I do. Thanks, I really enjoyed reading your replies. I must say... it is ashamed that we live in a society where people can be so closed minded about things (especially when they are in the media).

[Nilaraniel]

I have a friend who refused to go see LOTR because "I heard it had sorcery in it." The next thing she said was "But I'll still go see Star Wars!" What is the Force?!<P>Anyway, I am a Christian and with the free will God gave me I will read any book with wizards and evil creatures that I choose to. Reading and watching movies will not lead me to become an evil doer...although my dear friend thinks all people are weak minded. :-p (This is all I will ever say about religion on this board I promise!) <P>Nila

[Glenethor]

Well,<P>I too am Christian, C of E. It is generally only a small fraction of Believers who like to stick their noses into others' business, just as it is with other fundamentalist sects of <I>any</I> religion. I just hope that those who like to burn books will audition for roles in the rumoured remake of 'Fahrenheit 451.'<BR> <P>I used to like to get in the faces of intolerant people, but now I definitely choose my battles more wisely. That usually means standing with people I care about. I don't know what is happening in school libraries these days, but when I was in high school, there were whole <I>lists</I> of books that had been removed, or required special dispensation to get. It is a continuing battle, I guess, a battle between Light and Darkness.

[Jessica Jade]

I agree with you, Gelenthor, that people should follow their own judgement and not let others define what is cool or right or wrong. I hate narrowmindedness and people who push their beliefs on others. It just proves how parochial they are and how shallow and immature they are being.<P>It really annoys me when people say the LOTR movie was boring. Sure, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but so far no one has provided a good justification for dislking the movie. "Too long" just doesn't cut it...i'm sure they sat through Titanic and Pearl Harbor just fine. Maybe i'm being narrowminded, or maybe i'm not acceptiong others' opinions because they don't think like me, but i seriously believe that anyone who doesn't appreciate the LOTR story and movie...they are just too immature to understand it, and too shallow as well. The movie DOES make you think more than the simple story lines of movies like Titanic/Pearl Harbor, and the people who dont' like it just can't appreciate and beautiful work of art. They OBVIOUSLY don't have the depth of imagination(as someone stated before) to appreciate a well made film. It's not wrong to dislike the movie, of course, but their must be sufficient justification for opinions. I know EXACTLY why i love the movie and books...people who don't like it need to know exactly why they don't. "Too long" and "too boring" just prove their lack of understanding. Ugh. It totally annoys me that people can be so lazy (don't want to think or use their imagination) and superficial! <P>But when it comes down to it...i guess we shouldn't listen to people that immature. And shouldnt' let them annoy us...If they can't appreciate art and classics, that is really their problem and their loss, isn't it?

[Daisy Sandybanks]

Okay, that really ticks me off. I am really gettin tired of people portraying the whole gay thing between the Hobbits and evey other character inthe books, its starting to get old, and so what anyway? We live in a century were we shoud all accept what others choose to do with their own lives (sory, this really dos't appy to LotR, but mainly just society now a days).

[Maltagaerion]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It is a continuing battle, I guess, a battle between Light and Darkness.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I like this analogy. I see it as Light being Knowledge and Darkness being Ignorance.

[Glenethor]

Exactly.

[dragongirlG]

You guys are very good speakers! I have felt this way for a long time, about Christian fundamentalists--I am Christian myself, and I think that the people who ban the books are just ignorant--well anyway I agree with all of you! You guys have summed up my feelings through this thread. Thanks for posting, I really liked your replies.

[Daegwenn]

I am going to get interely off topic here because I want to prove a point. Well, I just wanted to tell someone this...maybe it isn't to prove a part but it is still funny. Or at least I thought so. <P>Anyways, in the province I live in it is the only bilingual province. Well, they were discussing reprinting the bible into French on CBC radio, and they took phone calls from the public...this lady actually came on line and was dumb enough to say this:<B>"English was used to write the first bible then an English bible should be good enough for the French!" </B> I like listening to people like this because they are amusing. I point and laugh at them and think that god really does have a good sense of humour when they put people like this in the world. <P>As for the Harry Potter thing and the Religious Paranoia, its sad that these people cannot see passed the rod that is rammed up their buttocks because they are missing some good stories. <I>Pul-leeze</I>! If they are worried about their children being influenced by evil 'unchristian' movies, books, etc. LOCK THEM IN A CLOSET-no I was joking. Don't do that. 'violence' and 'unchristian' is everywhere. You can see it on loony toons, bugs bunny-even Walt Disney movies! There is no escaping it. No sense keeping them from Harry Potter! (I can go for hours and hours on censorship) <P>As for this article writer, although what she wrote was her opinion and I too, cannot believe that something as slanderous as this could be printed and they could actually get PAID for it...but well, like I said, those people are there for laughs. So everyone on the count of three, point and laugh.<P>1<BR>.<BR>.<BR>2<BR>.<BR>.<BR>3<BR>.<BR>. <p>[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Daegwenn ]

[Glenethor]

You live in Quebec?<P>Oh ye lost soul!<BR> <P>My heart goes out to you!<P>Lived there most of my life. I miss Montreal...<P> <P>No wait. You said <I>bilingual</I> and Quebec is officially unilingual. <P>NB, right?<P>Nevermind...<BR> <p>[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]

[Daegwenn]

NB.

[red]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>...so far no one has provided a good justification for dislking the movie. -- ... but their must be sufficient justification for opinions. -Jessica Jade<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Since when does someone need "justification" to dislike something? I dislike tuna. Do I need to write a summary of tuna's pros and cons before I will be taken seriously? It is a matter of taste. There are many films I dislike. I can come up with no other "justification" for most of them other than, "It didn't suit my taste." Does that satisfy the need for "justification?" I did enjoy the first LotR movie, but any condemnation for those who didn't is ridiculous. The accusations of "lack of imagination" or "shallowness" or "immature" have no justification (ha!). Basically, the whole post makes little sense. Heck! My twin sister has absolutely no interest in seeing or reading LotR but she is extremely intelligent and has good taste in many things such as art and literature. Is she shallow, immature or lacking in imagination? No way! Someone needs to get used to others not agreeing with her tastes. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I agree with you, Gelenthor, that people should follow their own judgement and not let others define what is cool or right or wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Do you realize this statement completely contradicts the second paragraph? LOL!! <P>-réd<p>[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: red ]

[goldwine]

...so far no one has provided a good justification for dislking the movie. -- ... but their must be sufficient justification for opinions. -Jessica Jade<BR>Hated the movie, don't like HP - love tuna!<BR>I have valid reasons for all of these things with relation to my children, my faith, my health! I have posted enough on my opinions about the movie not to bore you again (unless someone asks... please ask!). This board survives because we are passionate about Tolkien. Even at times when we aren't incredibly articulate about our opinions, they still rage within us, sometimes with little valid justification!