Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Nogrod]

= Roa
The rules as they are now state that the gifted automatically find out who the GW is, which some people are disagreeing with, including myself. The GW should be allowed to do as they wish, which includes choosing to not reveal themselves.

This seems to me also as a bit problematic - as Celuien also noted. Maybe the GW should be able to decide on that? And if everything works by PM's via the submods, everything would be under the control of the GW (s/he could reveal her/his identity to some, and the not to the others - that might be wise tactics on certain situations too).


And sorry Loki, but I can't just see your argument holding on any possible debate about the Werewolf-game - not to say beating anyone to dust... Leave your banter to the game, and see where it leads you to... (argumentum ad baculum - one of the most useful ones in a WW-game... )

Believe me - and the others here - these games have been played awhile already, and the balance is quite sensitive. Giving the "bad guys" such a head start would just produce a bad game - and there are some dark clouds over the village already with this new gameplay-mode of the Wizard-game. Leaving the village totally undefended from the beginning would be really bad indeed for any interesting - not to say balanced - gaming.

If you want serious RPG, go to the Green Dragon, and start climbing the ladder. It will only take a year or something...

WOW! This game is really gathering some momentum! I have never seen this kind of debate before a game has even started! This is looking good indeed!


And just a sidecomment to Spm (and Morm) - as you have brought these things up here...

= Spm
As far as Nogrod’s reference to Kath and I using “ungentlemanly tactics” in the previous game is concerned, well I am afraid that I take the view, in a game based on bluff and deceit like Werewolf, that anything which is not specifically prohibited by the rules is a legitimate tactic. It is, I think, as well to be clear on that point up front.

I truly agree. And I think I have said this quite a many times earlier. That was just brilliant gaming from your part - and I have spanked myself from my slip some thousand times already. Just don't beat the dead horse any more...

Btw. Morm:Your comments are just what I have made up there. Sorry if my English has spelled out a different intention. I thought - and still think - that one to be my bad, and their great tactical skill. One can just whine afterwards as much as one likes...

EDIT: X-posted with a row of sentiment... and would do with some tea and cakes too.

[Boromir88]

lmp has a quality brain and can no doubt think of a dozen ways to explain the GW's Night 1 activities without even putting his thinking cap on.

Really I thought lmp was a totally inept turkey. (jk everyone)

Morm brings up a valid point. In prior games there's no reason for a Seer to dream of someone twice. But in this type of game where someone the seer dreamed as innocent, could very well be turned into a wolf the next night, there is a reason as to why a Seer would want to dream of someone again.

I see no problem with questions and sharing your own opinions as far as untying the final knots and getting everything cleared away before the start.

But I also see no reason to believe that lmp would not be able to manage this game. He has informed me of doing several trials already and with some alterations from the original it turned out pretty much evenly matched for both sides. And those were just trials, not taking into account the experience of the players to manipulate the game for their side.

[Celuien]

Okay. Tea and cake for everyone.

I'll put some aside for LMP. Wouldn't want to leave him out of the fun, would we? Particularly after all those impressively detailed trials he ran.

Come to think of it, I never heard of the no multiple dreams rule. I suppose it just didn't occur to me since there's never been quite as much shifting as there is going to be in this game. It would be nice to have the option of redreaming. But could that role be covered by the GW by scrying potential newly cursed villagers? The GW would already know of lost gifteds, so checking on continued Ranger/Hunter status by a Seer wouldn't add much.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

LMP- I thought you said voting on this was open until 6 pm EST today. 3 poeple have yet to vote.

Sorry, I must have miscounted. Anyway, the decision is made and final.

Announcement: The two wizards have been chosen and informed of their roles.

Regarding OOC comments; that is, references to previous werewolf games. I am allowing for the village to be a historically informed village. Thus, previous games may be referred to thusly: "My werewolf lorebooks say ....."

Tactics are tactics are tactics. Please learn the lesson in advance that I had to experience in game play: Instead of getting offended, think (!) about what the 'ungentlemanly' tactic might be telling you about the player.

I've changed the rules on gifteds PMing the good wizard & vice versa. (1)The GW has the right to keep GW identity secret. (2) ALL PMs passing between gifteds and good wizard must pass through the good team sub-mod, even if the good wizard has (been) revealed.

Whereas Kuruharan exhibits a thorough understanding of the purposes and motives of both wizards, both wizards nevertheless have control over when they reveal (unless lynched or scried, of course).

The GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1.

Gifteds/Werewolves get to carry out their Night-time activities on the same night that they are scried/Werewolfed.

I reiterate Saucepan Man's sage advice: Everyone bear in mind that it’s just a game.

Originally Posted by Loki

Now that's just plain silly. What motive would the GW have to spy on the lives of innocent townfolk?

Prophecy has strange impacts on such things....

The thread is now up. Here's the link to Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards. Please familiarize yourselves with the setting, mood, and general set up, et cetera.

As soon as I have made sure all rule revisions are accounted for (crossing fingers), I will post them on the Game Thread.

I'll reply to posts 3139 and later on another post, as appropriate.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Do the usual Seer and Ranger rules apply, whereby the Seer can dream of a particular villager only once and the Ranger cannot guard the same person two nights running? If so, then later Seers and Rangers are presumably not bound by the choices made by their predecessors.

Yes and Yes.

Originally Posted by Loki

After being spoken to by... a friend, I realized that I may have been a bit insulting to LMP. *nod* My apologies, I had meant no disrespect to you...

None taken.

Originally Posted by Boro

Really I thought lmp was a totally inept turkey.

I find myself convinced that the seer should be able to dream of the same person more than once, for the sake of how this game works. The Ranger, however, may NOT defend the same person two Nights in a row; but may defend the same person every OTHER Night.

I think that's everything for now.

[Gurthang]

In all this excitement and anticipation, I almost forgot to go invisible.

Everyone, don't forget to go invisible! *Gurthang vanishes*

(If you've forgotten how: simply go to your User CP, on the left hand side click Edit Options, check the Use Invisible Mode box, scroll down and hit Save.)

[Diamond18]

Well, Gurthy, since the game doesn't start for another few hours yet, I think I'll hold off on the vanishing.

I don't know if this will make a difference yet, but with the Day 1 start and finish times as they are, I am not going to be able to be around nearly as much as I wanted to. I'll be at work when it starts on Friday evening and then again all day Saturday, not getting home till maybe half an hour before the deadline (which won't be enough time to read all the posts and write one of my own.) All this is to say, you might as well expect me to be voting several hours early, at around 8 AM Saturday morning (CDT) and then vanishing for the rest of the Day. I can sometimes get online at work but it's not something to count on, by any means.

So anyway. So much for all the talk I did about Day 1 posting. I'll be around for a few hours on Friday (from around 8 PM to midnight) and that'll be mostly it except for a half hour or so Sat. morning when I get on to vote. This is the worst possible time in my work schedule for a Day 1 to occur.

[Valier]

I suddenly had the feeling that I'm about to play dodgeball or something....waiting to see if you will be picked last for teams.. Having the wizards as the team captains and they get to pick the players...

[Roa_Aoife]

I share your sentiment Valier.

I feel the need to inform everyone that I will be traveling over the weekend, and I won't be available for the first part of Day One. I will post before the Day is out, I'm just going to be late.

[mormegil]

Erm...Since the game has begun I believe all chat should stop on this thread and only notice of absence and the like should be posted here.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I don't mean to be particular--

You're just wavy, then, I guess.

Not that way. Now shut up, or I'll hit you with a Planck.

I hate Physics.

Enedwaith, I had put down an occupation here, and you still haven't edited spawn's civil status.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm not going to trust myself to post or think lucidly tonight. Please don't take it amiss that I'm not going to be around much Day One.

[Gurthang]

Okay, I hope that most of you can now see the evils of too much pre-game discussion. And I don't mean discussion about rules or timeframes or stuff like that. For this particular game, I noticed a great amount of pre-game discussion concerning strategy. I would have commented at the time, but did not want to jump into the 'debate' and hoped that it would not affect the game. That hope has failed.

I've seen numerous times already where people have referred to the discussion that occured within this thread before the game. Now, LMP has graciously allowed us to refer to previous games (in a round about way). He has, however, not stated we could talk about anything that has occured in this thread. (It is true that he has not said we could not, but I think that that was implied. )

Henceforth, I would love to see no more referals to this thread, the discussion herein, or any personal opinions spawned by said discussion. I know it is impossible to keep yourself from having personal opinions, but I think that we are all capable of keeping those seperate from the game.

Lastly, I think it is somewhat relevant (in order to understand our newest WW playmate) to read this if you have not.

Thank you and happy posting.

[littlemanpoet]

I have given all players a means to refer to anything outside the game. Please use it.

Refrain from personal insults. As in, "You're quite obviously stupid if you didn't catch my meaning." None of that or its like.

Gameplay insults are another matter, and can always be understood as fun and game-intended. You know the type. "You insufferable mushroom picker!" "Thou churl." "You canker of society!" Get it?

[Diamond18]

*sigh* Gurth, if we're allowed to refer to other WW games in character "my ww lorebooks etc" I don't see why we can't refer to things in this thread as I attempted to -- presenting it as an in character comment about things that happened in the village before the death of Elempi.

Now, if Paul doesn't want us to do this, I'll try not to, but you only suppose that he doesn't allow it. And since I can suppose that he does, it's very pointless for you to tell us what to do and not do based on what the mod may or may not think.

Now, I hope to spend far more time in the game thread than this one, so, until our Mod God speaks, I'm not going to bother debating the issue any further.

Edit: X-posted with da man himself....

[Formendacil]

*cough* *cough*

And a reminder from the friendly neighbourhood busybody (and his popcorn): keep discussions/arguments about rules off this thread until Post-Game. There have been too many games disrupted/ruined by problems like this. If there is an issue, PM the Moderator. If the Moderator has a problem, he can correct the game.

*Goes back to popcorn*

[the phantom]

It's possible I won't be able to post on WW for a few hours, until near the end of the day. I'll try to escape early, but I can't guarantee anything.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

*cough* *cough*

And a reminder from the friendly neighbourhood busybody (and his popcorn): keep discussions/arguments about rules off this thread until Post-Game. There have been too many games disrupted/ruined by problems like this. If there is an issue, PM the Moderator. If the Moderator has a problem, he can correct the game.

*Goes back to popcorn*

Amen.

Gurthang is forgiven for his well intended misfire, which, though it differs slightly from my wishes, available for your perusal above, is in the right spirit. Enough said. Back to the game!

[Sleepy Ranger]

I'm truly sorry for missing Day 1 but I wasn't feeling too well and my parents decided I ought to sleep in. I'm sorry!

[Nogrod]

An announcement, concerning the oncoming games.

Kath would like to have her TiG game to begin asap after lmp's, as her closing exams will haunt her after that. Therefore we will push the beginning of our TiGJ game a bit forwards.

So the next game should be Kath's TIG-game, and our game on TiGJ will start only when Kath's game is drawing near its end. That way we can have players to both games - and the timetable is much better for me and Lommy too: as our summer holidays start in the beginning of June. Then we will have all the time to come up with stories, deaths etc., and will be able to make the deadline around 10PM GMT, which seems to fit both Europeans and Americans.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

They always forget the East Asians. No wonder we usually get lynched when we do something crazy.

But hey, you can't please anyone. Besides, the two (or sometimes three) of us are quite used to it.

[Nogrod]

You are right. Sorry...

[Glirdan]

I'm here to let everyone know that I won't be here for the next four days at most because I have things going on at school. I've incorporated this into my post already as to remind everyone. Sorry about the short notice though! I completely forgot until today. Again, sorry!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I'm here to let everyone know that I won't be here for the next four days at most because I have things going on at school. I've incorporated this into my post already as to remind everyone. Sorry about the short notice though! I completely forgot until today. Again, sorry!

If you are innocent, we will understand - if you are a wolf (or the EW), we will just beat you out blue! And never play with you anymore...

[Kuruharan]

I was always under the impression that it was against the rules for players currently participating in a game to be posting in this thread unless they had a pressing personal reason to do so.

Perhaps this is a rule that should again receive greater emphasis from this point forward...

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, Kuruharan's right.

Please do not post to this thread if you are one of the DW XXI players - UNLESS - you are announcing an absence or other emergency that others need to know.

This is out of consideration to all other players. Other types of posts could affect the game. Nobody wants that.

Thanks!

[Eonwe]

Sorry I was unable to participate toDay. Work detained me longer than ususal.

Also I should mention for future reference that I work from 7 am to 3:30 pm EST, which is two and a half hours before the deadline. So I might not be able to get on with any substance posts before around 4:30 at the earliest. Sorry bout that, that's just how the sched panned out.

[Glirdan]

Quick explanation time.

I did not vote for this Day because after I last posted, I intended to come back to vote. However, I got back and didn't have computer access at all until right now. Sorry everyone! Again, I won't be here when until about Friday so don't expect any posts from me until then.

[Lhunardawen]

I'm sorry as well. My hubby and I went out on a date.

Seriously, I was caught up with near end-of-term schoolwork. In fact, I might have minimal participation this week. I'm really sorry. The week after should go more smoothly for me, if I'm still alive by then.

[JennyHallu]

I'm sorry too. My hubby and I went out on a date.

Really. To fly kites and to his softball game. And I didn't know he wanted to go early to meet a friend, so I didn't vote before when I was on....SO SORRY!

[Kuruharan]

I believe somebody said pressing personal reason to post in this thread.

Explaining absences afterward does not qualify. Given the current structure and status of the game, missing a vote or two is a perfectly valid tactic. As is afterwards coming along here and explaining and attempting to cover yourself. It keeps you from having to make a stand in the voting and covers your tracks. This is not fair if some players attempt to do this and others do not.

I know this stance may seem persnickety, but there is a reason for it. We are trying to close as many potential exploits in the game as possible, and this is one of them.

[Kath]

With the kind permission of lmp I am here to tell you that I am modding the game after this one. However, I need it to start very soon after lmp's so there will be a very short window for signing up. Therefore, if anyone wishes to sign up now please PM me, DON'T post on here.

If you'd rather wait and see if you will feel up to another game so soon after this one that's fine, just beware that when I say I'm starting soon after I mean it. I want no more than three days between the end of his and the start of mine, and the shorter that time the better.

Roles and rules etc. will be posted on here once lmp's has ended but it will be a basic game, so a nice rest after this one!

I think that's it. I may be back to edit if I think of anything else.

[Valier]

Just to let everyone know I will be gone for the whole beginning of the Day.

[Glirdan]

Ok, I'm back...until Wednsaday. I then leave on a Field Trip and come back Thursday night. I'm also going to let you know that I won't post anything in the game right now because I am to far behind and I'd rather start fresh on a new day. Sorry everyone!

[Thinlómien]

Because of the possible confusion, we will announce this here for this one time:

WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë

So what really happened to Elenwë? What was the fate of the Noldor lost on the Grinding Ice? Who were those guys with the black suits? Who was behind all that? What is the meaning of life anyway? And what has Cartesian Dualism to do with any of this?

This TiGJ-game will start in early June (after Kath’s game has been going on for a while)!

Book your tickets here to take part in this adventure – and to test the effectiveness of Hume’s guillotine!

- Thinlómien & Nogrod

[Garin]

I've received a rep point sans name saying I was missed. I have met the perfect storm of a non-participation-causing maelstrom.
Lost my job, had to move, lost my companion, my felines were taken away by aforementioned companion and then my lousy little lap top completely crashed and burned and I hope it will return home soon from the shop.
Anyways, I hope things will be close to normal soon and I hope to kick your behinds in the next WW. Cheers all.

Is it to late to join? If not count me in

[Formendacil]

There is a link to the Junior Planning thread in Thinlomien's post, where you can sign up, fellows. This thread is currently reserved for notices of serious departure pertaining to LMP's WW game.

I mention it because, that being the case, signing up here may well not be valid.

[Naria]

Form, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Is what you are saying only pertaining to the Lomgrod game or Kath's as well(or both)? I don't really understand what the problem is. If one has died in the Little guy's game, why would one not be able to come on here and sign up or talk about another game? Is that not what this thread is for?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Naria

Form, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Is what you are saying only pertaining to the Lomgrod game or Kath's as well(or both)? I don't really understand what the problem is. If one has died in the Little guy's game, why would one not be able to come on here and sign up or talk about another game? Is that not what this thread is for?

This thread isn't for signing up until LMP's game is done.

I was referring to Lomgrod's game, true enough. That is a Junior game, chronologically, and should, in any circumstances, be signed up for on the Junior Planning Thread.

As for Kath's game, she has directed that all those interested in joining PM her, so as not to clutter up this thread with chatter not related to the game in progress.

So yes, anyone dead in LMP's game can sign up- actually, since neither game starts until LMP's is over even the living can theoretically join-, and yes this thread is normally for that purpose, but no it is not to be used as such at this time.

Hope that explains it better...