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Old 03-22-2005, 05:33 PM   #1
Findegil
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General changes in the Narn i Chîn Húrin

This is the first draft of an expaned version ot the Story of Túrin Turambar NA. Our basis text is: Unfinished Tales; part 1; The First Age ; chapter 2: The Narn i Hîn Húrin (Narn). All additions from other sources are marked.

For a easier discussion the text will be devided into three parts:
1. The Fostering of Túrin: Reaching from the intro to the Narn until the end of Dor-Curathol
2. Beleg & Falivirn: Takes the story until the Fall of Nargothrond
3. The End of the Narn

Part 1 corrospondes more or less to the part of the Narn given in Unfinished Tales up to the big break at the end of Of Mîm including what is given in the Appendix to the Narn

Part 2 does fill the break in the Narn as given in Unfinished Tales. In this part only we will try to take up parts of the old Lay of the Children of Húrin.

Part 3 is the End of the Narn as given in Unfinished Tales. And there is not much to add or to change in this part.

In addtion one thread will hold the general changes.

We have 4 groups of changes:

NA-zz: General changes given and discussed in the list below. These changes are taken up in the text, but they are not indicated by "editorial markers"

NA-RG-zz: These changes are semi general. They are normaly forced by a change in the nomuclature but could within the lines of a poem that are added not dealt with by simple replacment. The changed nomuclature is listed but not numbered with the general changes below.

NA-SL-zz: Changes done to make the storyline fit to the later sources. These editorial markers are also sometimes used when a change was not made that could or should be considered and discussed in view of the stroyline of a later text.

NA-TI-zz For text that is takenin from other sources since it was left out in the version given in the Unfinisched Tales.

NA-EX-zz For expansions taken from some other source to make the story more detailed. This also includes some changes made in the expansion, and texts takenin which I marked for easier reference.

Some conventions of my writing:
Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned)
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalised text, normaly only used for general changes
<source example> = additions with source information
example = text inserted for grammatical or metrical reason
/example/ = outline expansion
Normally if an inserted text includes the beginning of a new § these is indicated by a missing “>” at the end of the § and a missing “<” at the beginning of the next.

General changes:
It is dificult to make genral changes in a poem. But I will also list here changes that are regulary necessary even if solved in each place individuly, but these will not be numbered as generall changes. But each individual change will be numbered with a normal editing mark (NA-RG-zz). At the end of each such “regular changs” is given the list of numbers of thes editing markers that are concerned with this particular issue:

NA-01: Eärendel to Eärendil per QS77 and LR.

Gnome/Gnomes/Gnomish to Elf/Elves/Elvish or Noldo/Noldor/Noldorin. "Gnomes" was dropped by Tolkien in LR and later writings, often replaced by Noldor. It would be better artistically to retain the original variation Gnome/Gnomes and Noldo/Noldoli which can be best done by replacing Gnome/Gnomes by Elf/Elves except where a general reference to Elves would not fit, as in "the Gnomes were exiles at heart, haunted with a desire for their ancient home that faded not." Then use Noldor. Exiles would be the exact replacment in sense, but Elves does normaly fit much better in the meter and is much easier understand and is thus generally used in this text. (NA-RG-01, -02.5, -07.5, -08, -11, -23.5, -37, -41.5, -45, -45.5, -47, -51, -54, -59, -61, -62, -66, -71, -72, -90, -98, see also NA-SL-04)

Tun to Tuna per Sil77 (NA-RG-86)

Côr to Tirion per Sil77 but this is not used see NA-RG-87

Gods to Valar, West, Greats per Tolkiens later general avoiding Gods for the Valar; but the change is critical since Valar does not often fit the meter. In some cases I did change Gods to God where the meaning allows a reference to Iluvatar instad of one to the Valar. In the case of Morgoth speaking of his pears as gods I thought it might fit his denying of Iluvatars authority to refer to his pears as gods. (NA-RG-02, -06, -14.5, -19, -35, -83, -88, -94)

Glingol to Culúrien per Sil77 but further changes are needed in the Line. (NA-RG-84)

Bansil to Silpion per Sil77 but further changes are needed in the Line. (NA-RG-85)

NA-04 Maidros and Maedhros to Maeðros per HoME X

NA-05 Celegorn to Celegorm per Sil77

NA-06 Taur-na-Fuin to Taur-nu-Fuin per Sil77

NA-07 Haleth (the Hunter) to Halmir

NA-08 Hundor to Haldir per HoME XI

NA-09 Haud-ina-Nengin to Haudh-en-Nirnaeth per Sil77

NA-10 Nivrost to Nevrast per Sil77

NA-11 Tower of Ingildon to Tower of Nimrais per Sil77

NA-12 Teiglin to Taeglin per WH note 55:
Taeglin(d) better Taeglind
*taika (√taya mark, line, limit > tayak) mǽre, boundary, limit, boundary line.
linde 'singer / singing', name (or element in names) of many rivers of quick course that make a rippling sound.
mǽre is an Old English word of the same meaning. – It seems that the form chosen for the published Silmarillion should have been Taeglin rather than Teiglin (see p. 228, §28).

Flinding to Gwindor per Sil77 but this change does only ocoure in the vers and Flinding is often used in the alliteration. Thus each line needs some special solution. (NA-RG-04, -09, -10, -12, -13, -14, -15, -15.5, -16, -17, -18, -20, -22, -23, -24, -25, -27, -29, -32, -32.5, -33, -36, -40, -42, -43, -44, -48, -49, -50, -52, -53, -55, -58, -60, -63, -70, -73, -75, -93, -96, -97, -99, -100)

Fuilin to Guilin per Sil77 but this change does only ocoure in the vers and Fuilin is often used in the alliteration. Thus each line needs some special solution. (NA-RG-26, -68, -74, -78, -79, -80, -81, -89, -91, -92, -95)

Flinding go-Fuilin to Gwindor go-Guilin this seems to be couvered by the two entry above but since in such lines Flinding and Fuilin are both in the alliteration it is here surely necessary to change the aliteration. (NA-RG-03, -07, -21, -30, -31, -57, -64, -65, -67, -69, -76, -101, -102)

NA-13 Dor-na-Fauglith to Dor-nu-Fauglith per Sil77

NA-14 dragon-helm to Dragon-helm just for consitency.

NA-15 dwarfen to dwarven per Tolkiens general use of the old plural when refering to Dwarves.

NA-16 Tengwethil to Taniquetil per Sil77

NA-17 Ylmir to Ulmo per Sil77

NA-18 Nan-Tathrin to Nan-Thatren per Sil77

NA-19 Tower of Ing to Tower of Ingwë per Sil77

NA-20 Dorlas to Darlas per WH Note 55

So fare the general and regular changes. See further in the Thread: Narn I Chîn Húrin 1: Túrins Fostering

Respectfully
Findegil
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:29 PM   #2
Findegil
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After reading The Children of Húrin I think we need to change some further bits in our version of the Narn. I am on the way to produce a draft for the possible changes. But one of them is of a general kind and should be discussed here.

From The Children of Húrin; Appendix 2: The Composition of the Text:
Quote:
This is a convenient point to notice that I have omitted from the text two passages that I included in the Unfinished Tales but which are parenthetical to the narrative: these are the history of how the Dragon-helm came into the possession of Hador of Dor-lómin (Unfinished Tales, p. 75), and the origin of Saeros [Unfinished Tales, p.77). It seems, incidentally, certain from a closer understanding of the relations of the manuscript that my father rejected the name Saeros and replaced it by Orgol, which by 'linguistic accident' coincides with Old English orgol, orgel 'pride'. But it seems to me too late now to remove Saeros.
This quote is telling in many ways. But that is not the point here. Since we obviously do not feel that is to late for any change, I think we should repalce Saeros by Orgol.

The second passage refered to by Christopher Tolkien as left out from the Narn is this:
Quote:
Yet there was one that begrudged him this, and ever the more as Túrin drew nearer to manhood: Saeros, son of Ithilbor was his name.{ 8} He was of the Nandor, being one of those who took refuge in Doriath after the fall of their lord Denethor upon Amon Ereb, in the first battle of Beleriand. These Elves dwelt for the most part in Arthórien, between Aros and Celon in the east of Doriath, wandering at times over Celon into the wild lands beyond; and they were no friends to the Edain since their passage through Ossiriand and settlement in Estolad. But Saeros dwelt mostly in Menegroth, and won the esteem of the king; and he was proud, dealing haughtily with those whom he deemed of lesser state and worth than himself.
In The Children of Húrin this becomes:
Quote:
Yet there was one that begrudged him this, and ever the more as Túrin drew nearer to manhood: Saeros was his name. He was proud, dealing haughtily with those whom he deemed of lesser state and worth than himself.
Does any body see any good reason why we should skip that passages if we change Saeros to Orgol?

Also I think we will includ the passage about the history of the Dragon-helm.

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Old 04-25-2007, 10:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
This quote is telling in many ways. But that is not the point here. Since we obviously do not feel that is to late for any change, I think we should repalce Saeros by Orgol.
We are in complete agreement over that.

Quote:
Does any body see any good reason why we should skip that passages if we change Saeros to Orgol?

Also I think we will includ the passage about the history of the Dragon-helm.
Not having read the CoH yet, and based on what you have posted, I don't think there is any reason to delete that passage.
The same with the histoy of the Dragon-helm.
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