The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2004, 09:01 PM   #1
Beserker_Warrior
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: a hidden fastness of mirkwood elves
Posts: 12
Beserker_Warrior has just left Hobbiton.
Shield How were the Balrog's of Morgoth formed?

I know that Morgoth had an arsenal of creatures to fight the Valar,Elves and Men, But how were Balrogs formed?They could have been made in mockery of the Valar as the trolls were mockeries of the ents. What do you think?
__________________
Beserker
Beserker_Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2004, 09:23 PM   #2
Maédhros
The Kinslayer
 
Maédhros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Formenos
Posts: 658
Maédhros has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Maédhros
This thread belongs to the Novices and Newcomers part of the Forum. To answer your question, Balrogs were not formed or created by Morgoth but they are lesser ainur (maiar) who chose to serve Morgoth.
From the Published Silmarillion: The Valaquenta
Quote:
For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror.
__________________
"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."
Maédhros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 03:23 PM   #3
Nimrodel_9
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Nimrodel_9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Utah
Posts: 786
Nimrodel_9 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Nimrodel_9
Dark-Eye

Yes, and to add to that, you could say that it "happened" in Angmar.
__________________
*.:A friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart:.*
Nimrodel_9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 03:29 PM   #4
Son of Númenor
A Shade of Westernesse
 
Son of Númenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The last wave over Atalantë
Posts: 517
Son of Númenor has just left Hobbiton.
I think you mean Angband.

Edit: Someone has decided to anonymously rate me down for this post, saying that it was incorrect. I don't object to the negative rating (I do object to the rudeness of the comment) although in truth, this post isn't incorrect: Nimrodel_9 almost certainly did mean Angband. I am certainly at fault, however, for failing to elaborate; the balrogs weren't 'formed' in Angband, or in Utumno or the Void. They were, as The Ninth Valar posits, merely corrupted Maiar - they were 'formed' with the rest of the Ainur in the Halls of Ilúvatar, and corrupted into the service of Melkor. Once 'fallen' from their original forms, they became, essentially, demons, incapable of discarding their shadowy, fiery forms.

Thanks for catching me on this ill-advised post, Anonymous Rater. In the future, I'd be much obliged if you'd sign your name, or at least make your remarks sound less hostile.

Last edited by Son of Númenor; 10-27-2004 at 12:56 PM.
Son of Númenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2004, 04:32 PM   #5
Nimrodel_9
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Nimrodel_9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Utah
Posts: 786
Nimrodel_9 has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Nimrodel_9
Thumbs up

Yes, I did mean Angband, Son of Númenor. Thankyou for correcting me. I really need to get more sleep.
__________________
*.:A friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart:.*
Nimrodel_9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2004, 01:38 AM   #6
The Ninth Valar
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The other side of over there
Posts: 23
The Ninth Valar has just left Hobbiton.
But wouldn't it be Utumno? Or the Void, perhaps? I was always under the impression that Balrogs were simply corrupted Maiar and as such, were present before the creation of the World.
__________________
This is not for you.
The Ninth Valar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2004, 05:37 PM   #7
Thalionyulma
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Thalionyulma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: across the sea
Posts: 295
Thalionyulma has just left Hobbiton.
I doubt they would have come from the Void. Being Maiar, then they would have been present during Ainulandale, wouldn't they? That was an interesting stage since each ainur's song seemed to seperate each to form a group, to eventually form to what they would become.

What threw me off, really, about the Balrog were that they were sometimes referred to as Children of Morgoth (or to that effect). If my sleep depraved brain is vaguely recalling.

Mockery of the Valar? Or perhaps more closely to that of the Atari (er, did I get the Wizards right?).
Thalionyulma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2004, 01:14 PM   #8
Son of Númenor
A Shade of Westernesse
 
Son of Númenor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The last wave over Atalantë
Posts: 517
Son of Númenor has just left Hobbiton.
A few pertinent quotes

Quote:
For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror. (Valaquenta)
Quote:
And in Utumno he gathered his demons about him, those spirits who first adhered to him in the days of his splendour, and became most like him in his corruption: their hearts were of fire, but they were cloaked in darkness, and terror went before them; they had whips of flame. Balrogs they were named in Middle-earth in later days. And in that dark time Melkor bred many other monsters of divers shapes and kinds that long troubled the world; and his realm spread now ever southward over Middle-earth. (Quenta Silmarillion, "Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor")
I can't recall Balrogs ever being referred to as the 'Children of Melkor.' Tolkien was very careful about his word choice, and I can't see him using the word 'children' (which has specific divine [e.g. Children of Iluvatar, Children of Aule] or biological denotations in his writing) to describe the servants of a being who is described as barren and incapable of creation.
__________________
"This miserable drizzling afternoon I have been reading up old military lecture-notes again:- and getting bored with them after an hour and a half. I have done some touches to my nonsense fairy language - to its improvement."
Son of Númenor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:56 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.