The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-31-2003, 02:48 PM   #41
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Auspicious Wraith
 
Eomer of the Rohirrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,988
Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Eomer of the Rohirrim is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sting

That side of The Great Eye Debate is literal-speaking gone mad.

Up until The Council of Elrond did anyone think that Saruman was just a single white hand? No, and with good reason.
__________________
Los Ingobernables de Harlond
Eomer of the Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 03:10 PM   #42
Em
Pile O'Bones
 
Em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The deep, dark recesses of my mind
Posts: 19
Em has just left Hobbiton.
Ring

Not meaning to argue with you olorin, but Odin was a very complicated character, both good AND evil, he had a much darker side to him, just as he gives he takes, he does not heitate to kill if it suits his plans and he obeys no law but his own. No one can trust him completely. The necromancer in the hobbit was inspired by these dark qualities of Odin. i think that Tolkien uses the GOOD side of Odin to create Gandalf, and the BAD side to create Sauron.And anyway, Sauron wasn't always bad.
__________________
'So' a silvery voice spoke 'you are the one' and suddenly the ice-blue eyes from the shadows vanished. (The Fallen Creator, Emily Sarah)
Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 03:13 PM   #43
Lord of Angmar
Tyrannus Incorporalis
 
Lord of Angmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the North
Posts: 833
Lord of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
And anyway, Sauron wasn't always bad.
True. He was only bad for several thousand (or million?) years.
__________________
...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.
Lord of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2003, 03:15 PM   #44
Em
Pile O'Bones
 
Em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The deep, dark recesses of my mind
Posts: 19
Em has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

WELL HE WASN'T!!!
I'm not sticking up for him by the way. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]
__________________
'So' a silvery voice spoke 'you are the one' and suddenly the ice-blue eyes from the shadows vanished. (The Fallen Creator, Emily Sarah)
Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 07:51 AM   #45
Em
Pile O'Bones
 
Em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The deep, dark recesses of my mind
Posts: 19
Em has just left Hobbiton.
Question

Well, that exlains the 'eye' theory, but why don't we ever see Sauron? p.s did you know, Sauron's name comes from an old norse wod meaning 'detesable' or 'abominable'?
__________________
'So' a silvery voice spoke 'you are the one' and suddenly the ice-blue eyes from the shadows vanished. (The Fallen Creator, Emily Sarah)
Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 11:57 AM   #46
Amarie of the Vanyar
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valinor
Posts: 215
Amarie of the Vanyar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

We never see Sauron because at the time of the War of the Ring he never went out of Mordor. That is why none of the hobbits saw him, and remember that the story is written by hobbits [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
__________________
But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.
Amarie of the Vanyar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 12:13 PM   #47
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

Exactly. The only time we are ever given descriptions of Sauron are in The Silmarillion or the Unfinished Tales, both of which are accounts from an Elven or Human point of view.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 04:24 PM   #48
Em
Pile O'Bones
 
Em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The deep, dark recesses of my mind
Posts: 19
Em has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Yeah, but what are the descriptions?
__________________
'So' a silvery voice spoke 'you are the one' and suddenly the ice-blue eyes from the shadows vanished. (The Fallen Creator, Emily Sarah)
Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 04:34 PM   #49
Lord of Angmar
Tyrannus Incorporalis
 
Lord of Angmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the North
Posts: 833
Lord of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Yeah, but what are the descriptions?
Here is the description of Sauron as I recall it:


Quote:
A giant lidless eyeball was he, wreathed in a terrible flame. At times he would go uncloaked through the land; and it is said that the terror instilled in the hearts of those that saw the Great Eyeball marching with his fell hosts was so great that they would gouge out their own eyes and fall stricken to the ground.
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
__________________
...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.
Lord of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 05:10 PM   #50
Finwe
Deathless Sun
 
Finwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos
Posts: 2,609
Finwe has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Finwe
Sting

Lord of Angmar! Don't frighten the newbies! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]


Let me rephrase that. We're never really given a word-for-word description of what Sauron looks like, but we have a general idea of his form:
  • First Age: possibly a "fairer" form, Gorthaur the Cruel (black, clawed, etc. VERY SCARY)
  • Second Age: Annatar/Aulendil (perhaps Elvish looking, but with a strange glint in his eyes, which was what probably tipped off Gil-galad and Galadriel)
  • Third Age: merely a presence, though some claim that he manifested himself as a giant, flaming eyeball

That is the general information that we have.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
Finwe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 05:47 PM   #51
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,036
Gil-Galad is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
Sting

i was reading the downfall of Numernore, SAuron died when teh island was destoyed, it said his spirit fled back to Mordor, and regained shape as a giant thing in heavy armor(or something liek that)
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil's Mind ENTER IF YOU DARE.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 07:03 PM   #52
Em
Pile O'Bones
 
Em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The deep, dark recesses of my mind
Posts: 19
Em has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

So Sauron was this 'presence'?
__________________
'So' a silvery voice spoke 'you are the one' and suddenly the ice-blue eyes from the shadows vanished. (The Fallen Creator, Emily Sarah)
Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 07:10 PM   #53
Lord of Angmar
Tyrannus Incorporalis
 
Lord of Angmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the North
Posts: 833
Lord of Angmar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Em, Sauron was a Maia, and as such did not have any exclusive physical manifestation to represent his spiritual being (that is, until after the fall of Numenor). He could change forms to deceive and influence lesser beings, but once he caused Ar-Pharazon to draw the wrath of the Valar and of Eru Iluvatar, he lost his ability to change forms to please the eye forever, and could never take the form of something lovely, attractive, benevolent or charming again.
__________________
...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.
Lord of Angmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2004, 07:35 PM   #54
Em
Pile O'Bones
 
Em's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The deep, dark recesses of my mind
Posts: 19
Em has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

So was he just a spirit and a flaming eye then?
__________________
'So' a silvery voice spoke 'you are the one' and suddenly the ice-blue eyes from the shadows vanished. (The Fallen Creator, Emily Sarah)
Em is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2004, 02:14 PM   #55
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,065
Boromir88 is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Boromir88 is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Boromir88 is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Boromir88 is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Boromir88 is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
1420!

A simple quote will end this argument (hopefully it hasn't already been brought up). Eomer has already said Saruman isn't just a big white hand (lol ha). But anyway onto the quote...

Quote:
The Palantir
In a low hesitating voice Pippin began again, and slowly his words grew clearer and stronger. "I saw a dark sky, and tall battlements," he said. "And tiny stars. It seemed very far away and long ago, yet hard and claer. Then the stars went in and out - they were cutt off by things with wings. Very big, I think, really; but in the glass they looked like bats wheeling round the tower. I thought there were nine of them. One began to fly straight towards me, getting bigger and bigger. It had a horrible - no, now! I can't say.
"I tried to get away, because I thought it would fly out; but when it had covered all the globe, it disappeared. Then he[sic] came. He did not speak so that I could hear words. He just looked, and I understood...
No one can force the palantir to lie. Pippin saw "him," and if he saw him, then that must be his physical form, and again no one can force the palantir to lie.
__________________
I used to be for flip-flopping. Now I'm against it.

Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2004, 03:33 PM   #56
obloquy
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
obloquy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 929
obloquy has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to obloquy
The argument was settled a long time ago. For some reason it is difficult for some people to read before they post. I predict that, since you have resurrected the topic by posting to it, several people will now read the initial post, and, without bothering to read any responses (or any Tolkien, for that matter), they will ejaculate their own ignorant ideas and/or redundant evidence for this or that side of a nonexistent debate.

Edit: But since you've dug up the thread, some may be interested in the topic I linked to above. Instead of editing the posts here, I'll just provide a link to the thread on the new forum. I've recently updated the links in it at the request of a forum friend.

Last edited by obloquy; 11-30-2004 at 03:45 PM.
obloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 06:37 AM   #57
Morzan29
Newly Deceased
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Morzan29 has just left Hobbiton.
Dark-Eye I believe Sauron has no true "body"

Though many here have theorized against the Eye as being Sauron's only physical form, I would like to mention a curious idea that has come to mind. Imagine Sauron as the Necromancer having a wraith-like form in the Hobbit book but afterwards returned to his homeland of Mordor to build his armies and regain his power. I believe fully that the Eye is his shade's form manifested. No matter what Smeagol said of his torture in Mordor, this Eye is the form in which Sauron takes shape since any spirit of his order (like Gandalf) can choose their body. The Eye doesn't bark around orders to every Orc, man, and slave under his control. That would be rediculus. Much like any king or lord, his advisers do the dirty work and speak for him on common errands to his subjects.
This body he has taken is not simply the Eye though. Sauron's mouth (his top human errand boy) is a speaker to his army and even talks to Aragorn on the battlefield since that point is an important moment that the direct speaker for Sauron must be at. Maybe the Mouth is the only thing that speaks telepathically to the Eye inside the Dark Tower. The Eye is Sauron! The Mouth or Sauron speaks, the Eye sees all, and what i find very cool but no one seems to notice is that the nine Ring Wraiths are his NINE remaining fingers...... This common theme of having a body parts being different characters but all a part of the bigger picture is very interesting. Sauron's power, much like any administration, is weaker without followers. The Eye is the mind. The body of administration does the mind's work. If Smeagol was tortured in Mordor by anyone besides orcs, it was the nine wraiths who could be taken as the quote by Smeagol about the Dark Lord's fingers.
Morzan29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 07:21 AM   #58
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 7,426
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morzan29 View Post
Though many here have theorized against the Eye as being Sauron's only physical form, I would like to mention a curious idea that has come to mind. Imagine Sauron as the Necromancer having a wraith-like form in the Hobbit book but afterwards returned to his homeland of Mordor to build his armies and regain his power. I believe fully that the Eye is his shade's form manifested.
An interesting idea, but I just don't think that was the case. The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien is a fascinating read. In a draft to Letter #246, Tolkien says of Sauron's form:

Quote:
Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.
Why could he not have been indeed in human shape, having one large, red eye, Cyclops-like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morzan29 View Post
No matter what Smeagol said of his torture in Mordor, this Eye is the form in which Sauron takes shape since any spirit of his order (like Gandalf) can choose their body. The Eye doesn't bark around orders to every Orc, man, and slave under his control. That would be rediculus. Much like any king or lord, his advisers do the dirty work and speak for him on common errands to his subjects.
While I do agree that Sauron largely used servants to obtain his goals, I think the Eye was merely the symbol chosen by Sauron to represent himself, mainly for his minions.
Aragorn in the books notes that Sauron does not allow his name to be "spelt or spoken" by his servants, and that's in keeping with his desire to be both king and god to them. Having a personal name by which he was known could, in his mind, have detracted from the aura of awe and terror he wished to inspire, Therefore, why not have a fearsome, but impersonal symbol for his troops to regard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morzan29 View Post
The Eye is Sauron! The Mouth or Sauron speaks, the Eye sees all, and what i find very cool but no one seems to notice is that the nine Ring Wraiths are his NINE remaining fingers...... This common theme of having a body parts being different characters but all a part of the bigger picture is very interesting. Sauron's power, much like any administration, is weaker without followers. The Eye is the mind. The body of administration does the mind's work. If Smeagol was tortured in Mordor by anyone besides orcs, it was the nine wraiths who could be taken as the quote by Smeagol about the Dark Lord's fingers.
The connection between Sauron's nine fingers and the Nine Nazgûl is interesting, but I think just coincidence. The Nine Rings were obviously made long before Sauron lost his finger, along with his One Ring.
As for the body part analogy, how does that fit with Saruman and his White Hand?

And by the way, welcome to the Downs!
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:36 AM   #59
Zigûr
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Zigûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 719
Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Zigûr is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Sauron was never an Eye. I think Letter 246 and Gollum's remark put this beyond doubt. From the end of the Second Age onwards, when incarnate, he looked like an unnaturally large man with burning skin and nine fingers. The Eye was his symbol and how his psychic presence was perceived by those who encountered him in or through the unseen world or how its manifestation was interpreted by those who observed his power (see the flash from the summit of Barad-dûr witnessed by Sam in Mordor).

Sauron did not act through agents and emissaries like the Mouth of Sauron and the Nazgûl because he was some giant telepathic eye but rather because there was absolutely no need for him to ever put himself into personal danger by confronting his enemies directly. His (staged) abandonment of Dol Guldur is testament to this. By the Third Age it had become a time consuming and demanding process for Sauron to become incarnate: he had had to do so quickly after his old body was lost in Númenor, and now he had to do so again.

The Ainur could become incarnate however they pleased (Yavanna as a tree, for instance) but I don't think it at any stage behooved Sauron's interests to become incarnate as an isolated body part - he could not have worn his own ring had he recovered it, for starters. We know that he could no longer assume a fair and pleasing form; is it possible that, like Morgoth before him, his 'Dark Lord' body was now the only form he could take?
__________________
"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir."
"On foot?" cried Éomer.
Zigûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:16 PM   #60
jallanite
Shade of Carn Dûm
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Posts: 479
jallanite is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigûr View Post
The Ainur could become incarnate however they pleased (Yavanna as a tree, for instance) but I don't think it at any stage behooved Sauron's interests to become incarnate as an isolated body part - he could not have worn his own ring had he recovered it, for starters.
Indeed. The texts you cite make this quite clear. See also the sketch by J. R. R. Tolkien of Sauron at http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:...n_-_Sauron.jpg .

See also Gollum’s description in The Two Towers where Gollum says, “He has only four [fingers] on the Black Hand, but they are enough.”

In the films Saruman tells Gandalf that Sauron isn’t yet able to “take physical form,” but that is an invention by the film writers.
jallanite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 06:13 AM   #61
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,476
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Silmaril

Welcome to the Downs, Morzan!

–Now, about your idea: the thing is, you can’t justify a whole elaborate theory simply by referring back to your own belief in it. Yes, you can think what you like, and you can share your thoughts with us, and all that– but if you’re going to put them forward for serious consideration, as you seem to be, then I’m afraid you have to come up with actual supporting evidence.

(But please don’t think I’m picking on you– what I’ve just said is pretty much “Nerwen’s Standard Lecture to Newbies”.)
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 07:36 AM   #62
Inziladun
Gruesome Spectre
 
Inziladun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 7,426
Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Inziladun is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zigûr View Post
The Eye was his symbol and how his psychic presence was perceived by those who encountered him in or through the unseen world or how its manifestation was interpreted by those who observed his power (see the flash from the summit of Barad-dûr witnessed by Sam in Mordor).
In line with that, I note that Frodo, as a Ring-bearer who had worn the Ring, seemed to have a special propensity to perceive the Eye. He saw it in the Mirror of Galadriel, and "felt" it while wearing the Ring on Amon Hen. Even earlier than that, while at Rivendell, it seems there was a psychic connection between Frodo and Sauron, via the Ring. Something as innocuous as looking at the night sky apparently put the Eye into his thoughts.

Quote:
But low in the South one star shone red. Every night, as the Moon waned again, it shone brighter and brighter. Frodo could see it from his window, deep in the heavens, burning like a watchful eye that glared above the trees on the brink of the valley.
FOTR The Ring Goes South
__________________
Music alone proves the existence of God.
Inziladun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 09:32 PM   #63
Nerwen
Wisest of the Noldor
 
Nerwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ
Posts: 6,476
Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Nerwen is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Send a message via Skype™ to Nerwen
Something I forgot to say earlier–
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morzan
If Smeagol was tortured in Mordor by anyone besides orcs, it was the nine wraiths who could be taken as the quote by Smeagol about the Dark Lord's fingers.
Morzan, apart from the obvious point that there are nine Ringwraiths, not four (not to mention the quote being from perhaps the least likely character to speak in such complex, obscure metaphors) here’s what he's actually talking about:
Quote:
"...Oh yes, [said Gollum] there were many tales about the Tower of the Moon."

“That would be Minas Ithil that Isildur the son of Elendil built,” said Frodo. “It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the Enemy.”

“Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand
, but they are enough,” said Gollum, shuddering. “And He hated Isildur’s city."
–The Black Gate is Closed.
As you see, I don’t think it can be reasonably claimed that’s anything but a concrete description.

That’s basically the problem with that whole side of the argument: it rests on assuming total literalism in some cases and the reverse in others, without ever looking at the context.
__________________
"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

Last edited by Nerwen; 06-30-2013 at 10:08 PM. Reason: added comment
Nerwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 09:17 AM   #64
Mornorngûr
Animated Skeleton
 
Mornorngûr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Angband
Posts: 36
Mornorngûr has just left Hobbiton.
Blame Jackson!

This is the single most stupid and ruinous thing ever done by Peter 'Scumbag' Jackson; depicting Sauron as a giant eyeball!.

What the frack man?!?!

The tower of Cirith Ungol is also said to have an eye in it by the way (when talking of the red light), but nobody confuses that description for something foolish.

Sauron was manifest and there need be no further discussion on the matter.
__________________
Then Sauron laughed: 'Patience! Not long shall ye abide. But first a song
I will sing to you, to ears intent.' Then his flaming eyes he on them bent,
and darkness black fell round them all.
Mornorngûr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 01:08 PM   #65
blantyr
Wight
 
blantyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Settling down in Bree for the winter.
Posts: 208
blantyr is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Dark-Eye Wheel and Eye

Quote:
"I am naked in the dark, Sam, and there is no veil between me and the wheel of fire. I begin to see it even with my waking eyes, and all else fades."--Frodo
I interpreted "wheel of fire" as being the ring, not the eye. I always thought the 'eye', the ability to see far away, was drawn from the palantir of Minas Ithil. I won't spend the effort trying to correct alternate interpretations, there are too many of them.
blantyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:33 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.