Could Morgoth come back? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Dark-Caranthir · 10-21-2002, 07:29 AM

I have pondered on this ever since I read the Silm. When Morgoth was banished to the void, could he return? Sauron told the Numoreans that Melkor was the giver of all and he would make them mightier than the Valar. But, he would have to be present to do this, right?

Rimbaud · 10-21-2002, 07:50 AM

Melkor indeed does return to the circles of the world. He is 'at large' for the Dagor Dagorath, the final battle of Tolkien's mythology. To steal a quote used by our fellow forum poster Legalos,

Quote:

Manwë will not descend from the Mountain until Dagor Dagorath, and the coming of the End, when Melkor returns.

...and this is all contained within the Silmarillion, which is a very good place to start in search of answers for such questions.

With all this talk of Doomsday, arm-a-geddin' out of here...

Telchar · 10-21-2002, 08:53 AM

2 Things.
1: Basicly everything Sauron told the Numenoreans were lies, with one sole purpose - making the Numenoreans go to war with with the Valar. Which Sauron knew well would be their doom. He never intented the Numenoreans to be his followers or slaves, he simply wanted to get rid of them. Further more Sauron probably wouldn't even know that Melkor/Morgoth was thrust into the Void - for all he knew he might as well be in Mandos on a life time sentense (which sucks when you're immortal).

2: Tolkien changed his view on the Dagor Dagorath theory in his later years - and realised that there would probably never be a new contest between Morgoth and the Valar. But that evil would after the fall of Sauron take a new and different shape.

Cheers T

[ October 21, 2002: Message edited by: Telchar ]

Aiwendil · 10-21-2002, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Tolkien changed his view on the Dagor Dagorath theory in his later years

Very true.

Quote:

and realised that there would probably never be a new contest between Morgoth and the Valar.

Not necessarily. There is no discussion of the Dagor Dagorath in later writings that is as thorough as that in QS, and there is no explicit statement that Morgoth would not return. There are several elliptical references to the Dagor Dagorath or the End, which are unfortunately ambiguous.

10-21-2002, 07:29 AM	#1
Dark-Caranthir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Somewhere beyond the Sea Posts: 52	Could Morgoth come back? I have pondered on this ever since I read the Silm. When Morgoth was banished to the void, could he return? Sauron told the Numoreans that Melkor was the giver of all and he would make them mightier than the Valar. But, he would have to be present to do this, right? __________________ A Elbereth Githoniel silivren penna miriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-diriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Faunilos, le linnathon nef aear, si nef aearon!

10-21-2002, 08:53 AM	#3
Telchar Stonehearted Dwarf Smith Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 2,247	2 Things. 1: Basicly everything Sauron told the Numenoreans were lies, with one sole purpose - making the Numenoreans go to war with with the Valar. Which Sauron knew well would be their doom. He never intented the Numenoreans to be his followers or slaves, he simply wanted to get rid of them. Further more Sauron probably wouldn't even know that Melkor/Morgoth was thrust into the Void - for all he knew he might as well be in Mandos on a life time sentense (which sucks when you're immortal). 2: Tolkien changed his view on the Dagor Dagorath theory in his later years - and realised that there would probably never be a new contest between Morgoth and the Valar. But that evil would after the fall of Sauron take a new and different shape. Cheers T [ October 21, 2002: Message edited by: Telchar ] __________________ Anar Kaluva Tielyanna.